Rob wrote:

You're gay, you cheated, you want a divorce...ok fine..  but why be so mean about it on top of what you did?  Why deny it and be so cruel? If this is the "gay coming out"  phase then I conclude hell must be full of  GID spouses..just complete lack of basic human kindness. That coupled with my narcissist blaming me for it has me still here  wondering if I did something wrong..am I crazy,  did this all really happen..     I guess I have to conclude she is just sick and crazy and get on with my life. The problem I have is she's not just sick and crazy but educated, vindictive  and evil..there is still so much hurt she can do to me even though we are divorced and separated.    I pray to God she 'works out her issues"   enough to leave me alone."

Thank you for writing Rob. I doubt you're alone in feeling a type of post traumatic stress following your marriage to a gay woman. Unfortunately, there is little you can do to change her other than go no contact while working on your own healing. I'd suggest you join the forum: http://thriveafterabuse.com/forum. With regards to your own recovery, are you getting professional help? You might also want to read "Psychopath Free" by Jackson Mackenzie. It's important to remain proactive in your healing while understanding that you can't change her through examples of love and kindness. Any contact with a sociopath or psychopath turns abusive as you've shared. The only way to deal with these kinds of people is to go what's called 'grey rock' which means being as neutral and uninteresting as possible so that they no longer pay attention to you. 

I've read a number of your posts and you sound like a good father, and a very kind man. Narcissists and sociopaths often choose kind people as partners. These are called empaths and the classic scenario goes something like this: the narcissist starts to withdraw from their empath partner because they've met someone else. The empath then tries even harder to 'fix' the narcissist by providing even more love and affection...but to no avail. In brief: your ex-wife just doesn't care because she has the emotional capacity of a scorpion. Whether gay or straight, narcissism is simply an extreme form of self-centredness. It exists on a scale from people who are simply self-involved to narcissists, and then sociopaths or psychopaths. If your ex-wife is deliberately hiding her homosexuality while hurting others, she's simply acting out her own self-hatred on you.  

The only way to deal with these people is to treat them as toxic or radioactive. You'll never get a kind word nor gesture from her. This means little to no contact, strict boundaries when discussing your children (perhaps only via email or text through a third party if necessary), and you actively working on healing.

I hope that helps in some way Rob. Please keep sharing as you're helping so many others work through their own pain.  


 

Sunflower,

My ex once told me during an argument that he always takes care of "number 1" first.  Why didn't I listen? Young, blind, love is such a dangerous thing.

I am six, almost seven years past separation.  I spent most of that time dealing with one crisis after another and in between I worked on processing my feelings.  It was hard work and seemingly never ending but I have arrived at a very good place.  I am very happy and when I lay my head down at the end of the day I am content and sleep well.

jkpeace wrote:

I am confused, when anyone words this situation in this way:  "It wasn't just TGT.  Our marriage had other problems..he was a cheater...he was dishonest...he kept secrets." Every single one of my marriage issues could have been worked out, IF my husband were not gay.

I understand what you're saying, JK.  You're saying that once a spouse in a straight marriage is revealed as being gay, no amount of work can be done to make the marriage work in your opinion - it's futile.  It's the proverbial nail in the coffin.  And I don't disagree with that.  However, my marriage was so flawed that it didn't matter what the core issue was anymore - I was still left sitting in a heap of ashes, even though I never saw the fire.  For a marriage to be potentially fixed, BOTH partners have to want that.  It doesn't matter if a straight marriage CAN be fixed if it WON'T be.  And that's the point I came to in my marriage.  I didn't know for sure and certain that he was gay, but I knew that my marriage was dead emotionally, and that he knew I cared and needed change in order to be happy, and he wasn't doing anything to fix it.  So it didn't matter what the core issue was - he was either incapable or unwilling to change.  Once I realized I had ample evidence to suggest nothing would ever change, I decided that I didn't want to choose to stay in the marriage longer - no matter what the core issue was.

If I were in a straight marriage and my spouse were cheating on me, lying to me, deceiving me, gaslighting me and potentially abusing me, it wouldn't matter that we were both straight and that it COULD be fixed.  It'd be too far gone.  At some point it doesn't matter what the core issue is - only that it results in the end product.  Just like it doesn't matter to the court system WHY someone is a pedophile - he just needs to be kept away from children.

If the gay thing helps you to know and understand that nothing you could have done would ever have resulted in the marriage working, then that's useful.  Otherwise, I choose to see it as me being miserable in my marriage, and feeling wholly justified for deciding to end the relationship that was toxic to my soul.  It wouldn't have mattered what the core issue was - he could have been a monkey in a man suit, for all I cared.  All I know is that it wasn't working for me, and that was it.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (January 17, 2017 3:47 pm)

Thanks JenS for your questions, although I'm very sorry you've found yourself here. In reply to your post: "I think my husband has a severe form of NPD [narcissistic personality disorder]." I'll try to reply to your questions:

​1. But the crazy part of it is, as I get stronger and find my voice and learn to look after myself after such a long time, he gets weaker and falls apart and breaks down.  I'm watching it.   

​People with narcissistic personality disorder (or 'narcs') pretend to be strong, confident, and happy. But it's just a front. In truth, narcs are weak, scared, and self-hating. And I know from experience we are deathly afraid of being alone. Narcissist project their weaknesses on to others. This is often why gay-in-denial narcs pretend ​to want out of their relationships, while truly being too scared to separate and divorce. Gay narc husbands blame their wives for everything when truly we're the cancer eating away at all of our relationships. I'm not surprised he's getting 'weaker' as you wrote. Not unlike standing up to a schoolyard bully, your strength and the possibility that you might live without him are exposing the truth: he's scared. Living without you scares the sh*t out of him. What you're likely seeing is his true personality when his narc mask slips a bit. 

2. His denial defence is like that of a 6 year old...So will he ultimately come out and lead a gay lifestyle or will he re-marry and remain in the closet? 

Who knows? Whether he ever comes out depends on his ability to embrace a part of himself he's denied most of his life. Regardless of whether he comes out or not, I'd encourage you to get tested for STDs, post your story here, reach out for help (either here or with friends/family), consult a lawyer about divorce, and start planning for a division of your assets. Coming out or remaining in the closet is his decision so it's out of your hands. Your first priority should be you and your children.

3. I'm also wondering, what is it like for a gay man to have sex with a straight woman?  

​I loved my wife but that love was platonic because I'm attracted to men. I cared about her but never wanted intimacy with her. For me it felt like what I imagine it would be like to be forced to have sex with a female relative, like my sister. So while there was love and affection, I felt little sexual attraction to my (then) wife.     

​4. Is that why he never kissed me - to avoid intimacy?  

​Yes. This is an interesting question because I think I experienced a before and after. Before having sex with another man, I was fairly comfortable being affectionate with my (then) wife. As if to confirm I was straight, I would also go out of my way to "act" straight when we were with friends and family. But once I'd had sex with another man, I just couldn't do public displays of affection and deep kissing during sex was never an option. Kissing is a very intimate act and strangely many gay-in-denial men or closeted men refuse to kiss other men. This is bizarre because they're perfectly comfortable with all kinds of gay sex acts yet somehow kissing is just too much. I think it's because kissing is simply too intimate. Great question.

5. Did he just fantasize about guys he saw naked at the gym when he had sex with me?

​Probably. Whether he was thinking about guys at the gym or replaying porn scenes in his mind, a gay husband often has to fantasize in order to perform with a straight wife. 

I hope I've answered your questions JenS. If not, please feel free to write again. 

Last edited by Séan (January 20, 2017 8:01 am)

Kel shared: "They [gay-in-denial husbands] are delusional, and the longer we play into their truth, the longer we deny ourselves.  THEY will never change.  It is only us who need to see that we can trust ourselves and get rid of them because they are toxic to us."

​JK shared: "I do notice that my husband is just not at all whom I thought he was.  How on earth did I go 24 years without noticing that?  He is very immature, but trying.  He is very negative...the difference is that now I know that there is nothing I can do about that.  He can't think of what to do with the kids, without me organizing it.  I certainly didn't notice theses things, while we were married.  I only noticed that negativity, but I thought that was depression...didn't know all of that was due to TGT."

​Sunflower wrote: "Jk I think if you look back at your life, living with this person you will realize that they have been a narcissist all their lives. I realized mine had been since he was very young.​"

Thank you for your posts JK, Kel, Sunflower and so many others. A lot of closeted husbands who marry straight women are narcissists. Narcissism is defined as, "extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type." Whether we are born narcissists or become narcissists is debatable. I'd recommend every straight spouse read up on narcissism to understand their toxic marriages. 

How do you know you're in a narcissistic relationship? Without discussing the gay thing, I believe there are four telltale signs:

1. Confusion: ​You know you're with a narcissistic husband if most of the conversations you have leave you dizzy, if not disoriented. 
2. Denial: ​If your husband continues to deny reality, even in the face of overwhelming proof, he's likely a narcissist.
​3. Empathy: ​If you're constantly defending your husband, propping him up, and feel like you're the only person who truly understands him, your husband is likely a narcissist.
4. Victim: ​A narcissist is always the victim. "I cheated on you because..." or "It's your fault I did..." Parents, friends, co-workers, or even a spouse are always to blame. Even while hurting others, they're the victims.

​JK's post is particularly poignant because it demonstrates what happens when a straight spouse is no longer being manipulated by a narcissist. Like others, she sees the emperor has no clothes. When a straight spouse first posts here, she often parrots what her gay husband has been saying for decades. Here are some examples: 

1. Confusion: ​"I'm not sure my husband is gay. I feel so stupid for being here."  
2. Denial: ​"I confronted him but he says he slept with another man just once because he was curious."
​3. Empathy: ​"He's such a good husband and father. We're soulmates. I want to help him any way I can."
4. Victim: "His uncle molested him as a child. This is why he has same sex attraction."

​Being with a narcissist feels like the emotional equivalent of a punch in the face, followed by a hug, then strangely you hear yourself apologizing for your face getting in the way of his fist. The only way to recover is to get away from him and his manipulations. When a straight spouse finally gets rid of her narcissistic husband, it's like taking the blinders off. Most newly-separated straight spouses go through an angry phase during which they hate their ex-husbands (and sometimes me as a gay ex-husband posting here). This is healthy because they are seeing the man without his narc mask. This often means seeing him as gay, a liar, cheater, manipulator, and often a fraud. Narcissists project a false self who is confident, successful, honest etc. when honestly we are like scared little boys. The straight spouses are truly the strong ones. Once free of their deadbeat husbands and once straight spouses have worked through the anger of spending years, if not decades, with a gay man, their recoveries are often spectacular. 

Last edited by Séan (January 23, 2017 3:37 am)