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January 15, 2019 11:37 pm  #11


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

I have a couple of thoughts on this.  By way of possible explanation (NOT EXCUSE)... being shamed out of your non-normative sexuality by a heteronative society and/or family dynamic is a form of trauma. Learning to hide and lie, compulsively, in order to survive your youthful upbringing  - and avoid bullying, ,abuse or abandonment, may have very well been an adaptive and *appropriate* response to that environment. Fast forward 30 years later... the same adaptation is now abusive to others... 
Adaptions to shame can include: withdrawal, attacking self, addictions/avoidance, and/or attacking others.  Lucky us.
I appreciate Omar Minwalla's work on understanding that it is not just about the behavior but also the personality disorder/character disturbance that needs to be addressed. And, that the partner endures significant trauma that deserves acknowledgement and requires treatment.
 

 

January 16, 2019 7:44 pm  #12


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

< deleted >

Last edited by Estella Oculus (May 30, 2019 7:17 am)

 

January 16, 2019 10:16 pm  #13


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

I'm so sorry for what you are going through Estella. I resonate with your words. My ex is in full denial.  We want truth over anything, but they are incapable of believing that we could handle the truth in a loving way.  They aren't hearing us. And that is not about us. Thinking through a trauma lens.... if they are responding from their wounds - which is what we do when triggered -  (their emotional trauma from childhood shame) - they are actually likely young boys.   This helps me detach, stop trying, and stop personalizing the abuse and callousness. It's beyond hard. I cycle through rage, grief, compassion and love many times a day. And I have had no contact for over a year. I aim to sit in gratitude daily for the learnings, the people that have supported me, and the fact that I am free from a broken man.

 

January 17, 2019 1:03 pm  #14


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

WBM, I think you bring up a great point. Compulsive behavior, selfishness, narcissism, those traits may be the ones that truly make this situation so bad for the straight spouse. These people are often disordered, and even if they openly embraced their gayness, there is no guarantee they will be happy and that they will always be honest and loyal to their partners going forward. Some people say once a cheater, always a cheater.


walkbymyself wrote:

This Season: Thanks for starting this thread, because it's a topic that I feel like I've been stuck on for a while.

I gradually came to understand my husband's situation as being a hybrid of his gay urges ... but I think there was also a second aspect to it: the compulsive behavior; the thrill of having a secret second life, the thrill of breaking the rules and cheating.  

I came to this because I'd spent a lot of time snooping, quite honestly.  I wanted to find out how bad the damage was.  I wanted to know who he really was all along.  Ultimately, I became desensitized to the shock of what I was seeing, and I started to understand more what was really going on.  I saw he had a double life in a completely amoral universe; I saw that he and his fuck-buddies had simply abdicated any participation in the social contract.

I'm not sure this is true for everyone here.  I think a lot of people here have spouses who came forward to disclose longtime secrets -- mine is not one of those.  He didn't want a new life.  He wanted everything to stay exactly the way it was.  But I digress...

I went to visit my daughter over Thanksgiving, and when I came back ... I checked to see what my husband had been up to while I was gone.  I learned that he'd taken his boyfriend on a weekend trip, and at the same time he was with this guy ... he was trying to arrange a hookup with another guy.  He told the second guy he was going to be in town with his boyfriend, and the guy responded "I see.  So are you with someone who would be upset if he knew we got together?" and my husband responded "yes".  Then they tried to work out a time when he'd be able to sneak off -- to cheat on the guy he's cheating on me with.

Well, it's nice to know irony isn't dead.

But getting back to your original question -- how do mental illnesses and personality disorders play into this situation -- I came to believe that for my husband, the "gay" excuse for cheating (or as he would call it, "bisexual") doesn't withstand scrutiny.  He went off with his gay boyfriend and right off the bat was trying to figure out how to cheat on him, too.  There's obviously another issue here, of compulsive behavior.

 

     Thread Starter
 

January 19, 2019 12:32 am  #15


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

"I CYCLE THROUGH RAGE, GRIEF, COMPASSION AND LOVE MANY TIMES A DAY....I AIM TO SIT IN GRATITUDE DAILY FOR THE LEARNINGS.... AND THAT FACT THAT I AM FREE FROM A BROKEN MAN"

So eloquently put. I only only 3 weeks out of ending a relationship the day after Christmas. I don't even know how to describe the situation. I feel very sad and disappointed someone would be so callous and emotionally abusive when they have the secret to hide. I was under the impression (his) we would move in and marry and have children. Today is his birthday and I am unsure to even say a word to him. The whole situation is disorienting and a bit hard to digest at times. :-(


Dandelion wrote:

I'm so sorry for what you are going through Estella. I resonate with your words. My ex is in full denial.  We want truth over anything, but they are incapable of believing that we could handle the truth in a loving way.  They aren't hearing us. And that is not about us. Thinking through a trauma lens.... if they are responding from their wounds - which is what we do when triggered -  (their emotional trauma from childhood shame) - they are actually likely young boys.   This helps me detach, stop trying, and stop personalizing the abuse and callousness. It's beyond hard. I cycle through rage, grief, compassion and love many times a day. And I have had no contact for over a year. I aim to sit in gratitude daily for the learnings, the people that have supported me, and the fact that I am free from a broken man.

 

 

January 19, 2019 12:37 am  #16


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

Is it normal to want to have some closure or answers? If someone is deeply closeted and lies constantly to cover up small and large- can you even trust any words coming put of his mouth?

Why do I seek for some response? I ended the relationship a few weeks ago and he has yet to respond in any way. It is very sad and disappointing. Im not sure how to process this all and I am happy I found some people who have similar situations to gain perspective. But the silence i believe is a mind game in itself which is hurtful. 

 

January 19, 2019 11:39 am  #17


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

Wanting closure is normal for people. It's one of the reasons we have funeral rites. Even then the mourning is not over. What you are going through is very similar to losing someone through causes completely unknown. They disappeared without a trace, presumed deceased, but you spend years wondering if that was what really happened.

I think you are correct, this is a mind game tactic. If he refuses to acknowledge the situation you may begin to question yourself. Eventually you will reach out to him and that allows him to either reinforce that doubt or respond with calculated cruelty. What is the alternative explanation? If he can just drop you like that, without a word, what does that say about his character?


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

January 19, 2019 1:08 pm  #18


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

Thank you Daryl.

It has been so confusing dealing with this. After some reading on here I realized that its a mix of Narcissism and probably being deeply closeted. At the end he was gas lighting me so much I really felt like I needed a third party involved anytime we had a disagreement.  He went missing for a few hours on Christmas Eve, left me waiting and worried about him for a few hours. He lied and said he was arguing with family then came to find our Christmas he was with a friend that picked him up on the street and they had drinks. I was just speechless, because I also saw he had nude pictures of a man on his phone that evening as well. He was V intoxicated.  
Sorry for the rambling- I just felt like a bomb was dropped on me. And he was no where to be found to discuss anything so I ended it and no word since. Its just very disorienting. His birthday was yesterday and I still feel a bit bad for him, love, anger, grief. Just total confusion!!

Thank you for your response. 

 

January 19, 2019 2:57 pm  #19


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

Whatishappening?  - What you are experiencing is a normal response to cruel and cowardly behavior. The confusion and disorientation is horrific! The cognitive dissonance from trying to reconcile what they  once were to what they are currently doing -  with all the gaslighting - is a form of psychological abuse.  I literally had to write out everything on paper, note which were facts and which were perceptions and study them daily to be sure I was grounded in reality. Other people cannot understand what you have been through unless they have been through it. It's like trying to hand them one puzzle piece at a time while you are able to see 100 pieces at once and can see the horror of what's happened while others can't perceive of it.  Especially if they present as "heteroamazing". That's why this forum has been so helpful for me this past year.  

While I once thought his silence was the cruelest thing ever (a cowardly avoidance and control tactic) -  I now see it as a gift. I believe he knew I deserved better than what he could offer me long term. I also believe he is incapable, at this time, of acknowledging the truth out loud due to his own shame. He cannot have empathy for me when he is buried in shame. And I won't play pretend and engage in small talk -(I have too much respect for myself to pretend he did not abuse me covertly for years) - so silence is where we land. I never, ever, imagined i would be in this place with this individual but I am. I'm sorry you are, too. It does get better.   Hang in there!

 

January 20, 2019 12:32 am  #20


Re: TGT, Cheating, and Personality Disorders

Dandelion, 
Thank you for your words and for sharing. You have a wonderful outlook on it and I know it is a gift to be shown this side of him earlier rather than later.
 I guess Im having a difficult time with the gas lighting and being convinced you can't trust your own memories, feelings or reality is what has been overwhelming for me. I think I have been in shock for a few weeks but now I am starting to really process the psychological angle. At first I was obsessed with the odd sex requests, cross dressing, photos etc trying to make sense of the sexual behavior. Now I see there was an even bigger issue I didn't even realize- the manipulation and abuse essentially. 
After reading others experiences last night I really realized how similar and almost text book our whole relationship was according to what people have shared.

Crazy

 

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