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January 15, 2018 10:31 am  #1


Forgiveness

Deleted message.

Last edited by jkpeace (July 27, 2018 2:34 am)

 

January 16, 2018 8:23 am  #2


Re: Forgiveness

JK,

LOL..   a loaded/hard question on this board..   forgiveness.      

I think in my book  "Back Life"   Dr. Salzer  talks about  listing emotions   we have ; anger   and emotions we want ;  forgiveness .. Her solutions  are ;
 -  look for evidence in the world of forgiveness..  Look for evidence in the world of the opposite of anger.
-  look for resilient people   (she calls them "heroes")  that show and convey forgiveness or  who show calmness and patience instead of anger. 


Note also that you're completely normal....when we think about money our GXs  provoke a lot of anger and bitterness...  the financial stupidity that the GX/Gspouse  brings to the world can  confound and anger even a devout nun.     Don't beat yourself up...we are not omnipotent beings that possess super human amounts of forgiveness.    I try to give it to God when I think about how much my GX screwed  the children financially as it confounds me....TGT is selfishness without bounds ...harming even the children (financially)...they think they aren't but that is not reality.



 

Last edited by Rob (January 16, 2018 8:36 am)


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

January 16, 2018 10:49 am  #3


Re: Forgiveness

JK, I'm so glad to see you posting again.  Great to hear you are doing well and happier than you had been. 

This book is excellent:Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve by Lewis Schmedes. 
It's from a Christian perspective fyi. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006128582X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

January 16, 2018 5:22 pm  #4


Re: Forgiveness

I haven’t yet found a book that I felt worked for me.  Perhaps it’s because there seems to be varying definitions of “forgiveness” and which one you choose is based on your reference points.  For me, I chose to look at forgiveness as my choice to “let go” of my past; to stop spending my energy and time thinking/remembering what I could not change; what I was in no way responsible for.  Honestly, I need all the time and energy I’ve got to build a new life, to begin writing my next chapter.  It’s a challenge and I am definitely ready to claim something better than what I had.  Something authentic, rich and breathtaking! 

For those who may be looking for something biblical, a thought provoking verse is Isaiah 43:25. “I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, FOR MY OWN SAKE, and remembers them no more.”  Forgive for your own sake...free your thoughts, emotions and time for the real life you were put on this earth to live.  If God himself chooses to stop wasting His time remembering stuff for HIS OWN SAKE, why in the universe would I?

I still have to “catch” myself if I find myself slipping back into the memories of my past.  When I do this, I instantly get up and move, disrupting my thought process and refocusing on the present.  This disruption keeps my actions and energy forward focused.  As time passes, the number and intensity of past remembrances diminish, and I am free to focus on my new life.  I think forgiveness is part of the acceptance stage of grief.  You have a new objectivity, new wisdom and a growing emotional detachment.  You start acknowledging your own personal power to take control of your life and your ability to act increases.

For me, Forgiveness isn’t condoning the offense or pretending it never happened.  It’s about choosing to empower yourself to let go of your past so all your energies can be focused on your future.

 

January 16, 2018 9:49 pm  #5


Re: Forgiveness

The fact is, jk, that it's a very rational response to be angry at him for his willingness to sacrifice you and your children to his shame and his closet, and for his unrealistic and selfish wish that you would accommodate your own diminishment. I don't know how you find forgiveness for that; maybe you can only approach compassion for him because he's a weak and wounded man. Compassion doesn't excuse fault, however.
   I had a therapist after my father's suicide who said that sometimes when we have trouble forgiving the other person what we're really having trouble forgiving is ourselves. I was angry at my father for what he'd done to all of us, throughout our lives, and by committing suicide, but I was also mired in guilt: didn't I love him enough that he would put the gun down?  Why hadn't I heard in his voice when I talked to him the day before he killed himself that he was going to kill himself?  I had to forgive myself and let go of the guilt I felt, guilt I realized I needed to feel to feel less unimportant and dispensable: if I could have stopped him then it would have proved he loved me and I was important enough.  
  Sometimes I have this same feeling of guilt and responsibility about my husband's sexuality: why didn't I know?  why wasn't I enough? what is wrong with me that he needed this other life?  
  So maybe, jk, we need to forgive ourselves.  
  

 

January 17, 2018 3:08 am  #6


Re: Forgiveness

I agree, it’s expected and normal to feel unforgiving JK, it’s still part of the process of healing and it’s still really early days. I wasn’t even married and I’m still nowhere near forgiveness, nowhere, I say I will forget him (luckily I could walk away more easily because no kids etc) but I will probably never forgive him.

But in terms of reducing its effect on you have you tried mindfulness or meditation? They are scientifically proven to reduce the stress hormone cortisol, they take practice and I’m no expert but mindfulness definitely helps me sleep and used cumulatively it can help keep you from reaching the ceiling. Just a suggestion but there are great things written about both.

 

January 17, 2018 9:59 pm  #7


Re: Forgiveness

I was able to make peace by separating peace from forgiveness. Did he apologize? recognize he hurt you and make an honest attempt at changing his behaviour? If the answer is "no", then I'm not sure how forgiveness is expected of you.

Moving on is a different thing. Myself, I made peace with myself that I'm not going to get my truth I'm not going to get an apology or correct behaviour form my ex. I forced myself to recognize that it does me no good to expect rational behaviour from a crazy person. Maybe I'm just weird that way but I see this as a better path to peace of mind than trying to forgive a person. 

Hope that helps

 

January 19, 2018 2:23 pm  #8


Re: Forgiveness

Forgiveness is a difficult thing.  I will say that what I've learned about it is that it's for yourself, and that it's an intentional act.  If you do nothing, you will not forgive.  It does not come along on its own, born out of time and peace.  It requires you to decide that you've had enough of thinking about what's happened to you and being its victim.  It's deciding that it doesn't define you, and that you're better off without associating with it.  It's knowing what was done to you was wrong, terrible and awful, and deciding to move on from it anyway.

When we don't forgive, we're left bitter and alone, clutching the thing that we hate the most - the pain of what was done to us.  Forgiveness doesn't mean that you don't know that it was done to you, or know how wrong and unfair it was for that person to have done this to you  Forgiveness means that you know all of that and have decided there's nothing left to do at this point but throw that crap in the fire and move on towards spending your time and energy on things more productive for your future.

To forgive is to release.  Like letting a balloon go.  You can still see the balloon for a long while as it drifts away from you.  It doesn't disappear the moment you let it go - you see it floating away, getting further and further from you, smaller and smaller, until it's pointless to stay looking any longer.  It's...... gone.  Released.  When you let that string go, you knew this would happen.  It's deciding that you're going to do it that's the hard part - knowing that you'll never be able to clutch that string again.  But knowing also that you won't be hindered by needing to attend to the balloon any longer.  It won't be in your way, it won't bump along behind you, you won't need to make room for it in your life any longer.  You've decided that to hold it is not worth it to you any longer.  You've had your fill, and now you want to be rid of it.

You will still have scars.  You will still have down days.  You may still have moments where you have anger bubble up at the memory of something horrible that was done to you.  But you are no longer looking to take that anger out on anyone.  You are no longer looking for somewhere to transfer all that energy to.  If it visits you, YOU decide if you're going to let it in, and for how long.  And then you show it the door - because you've decided it doesn't live with you anymore.

The Bible says to forgive.  Which means that it's intentional.  It says the same sort of thing about jealousy - something we often feel has us in its clutches and that we can't control.  But telling us to not be jealous implies that we have control over this emotion.  And we do.  We can feel it creeping in, and then tell it, "NO.  I will be happy for this person's good fortunes.  It has nothing to do with my misfortune.  I wouldn't want someone to feel anger and upset toward me if I had a good life in this area - so I refuse to be that person to others.  I refuse to give footing to the jealousy.  I will now go and tell them how happy I am for them."  That mindset and jealousy cannot abide together.  They simply cannot.

Similarly, forgiveness is a choice. It does not happen to you - you MAKE it happen.  You breathe out, you release the hot air in your lungs, and say, "No more breathing smoke.  I only want to focus on breathing in clean air now - not on complaining about breathing in smoky air."  It is finite - yes, it CAN come down to the moment you decide to make this happen, and do something to foster it.  Do something to signal the forgiveness.  Write it down on a letter and throw it in the fire when you're ready.  Write it all on a balloon and release it into the world.  Put yourself into a position of positive energy and release the old breath.  It's a moment in time that you intend to for this to happen from this point forward.

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

January 19, 2018 5:11 pm  #9


Re: Forgiveness

Its an old Don Henley song  I heard again recently...

..."
I'm learning to live without you now
But I miss you sometimes
The more I know, the less I understand,
All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning again
I've been tryin' to get down
To the heart of the matter
But my will gets weak
And my thoughts seem to scatter
But I think it's about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore"


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

January 19, 2018 10:51 pm  #10


Re: Forgiveness

I have a great book by Chip Dodd called The Voice of the Heart.  Its not about forgiveness exactly, but its about 8 things we need to live fully.  They are hurt, lonely, sad, anger, fear, shame guilt and glad.  When I first read that I thought wow, all of those seem negative except glad.  His book says that if you feel all these things you will listen to your heart and more fully know yourself.  It is an amazing read and will help you heal and help with the forgiveness. 

https://www.amazon.com/Voice-Heart-Call-Full-Living/dp/098439916X  

 

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