Thank you for posting Lyonene. You're not intruding at all. This thread and forum welcome all opinions, although I do hope we can keep our exchanges civil and secular. I'm sorry to have missed your last post DH. You wrote:

"I re-sent the above quote in case you missed the question. I have a question and again sorry if you answered it before. So is it safe to assume that the I didn't know, This is new to me defense is B.S ? I knew in about the 5th grade when I first laid eyes on my neighbor /classmate that it was girls for me. Thanks for putting in the time to answer all our questions it's appreciated."

I'm not quite sure I understand your questions DH so please rephrase if you can. ​I think what you're asking is: "Are you saying that I didn't know my own sexual orientation? I've known I was attracted to girls since the 5th grade (or around age 10-11)."

I'll try to address this but please re-send the question to ensure I've understood. I've known I was attracted to boys since around age 5 or 6. How? I remember telling my sister and her best friend I was attracted to a (male) lifeguard at camp. The reaction from my sister and her friend was both swift and negative. "That's gay and that's bad," was the message. In my previous posts, what I was trying to distinguish between were attraction and acceptance. Yes I was gay, yes I knew I liked boys, but I denied it. And then I did everything I could to hide it. Denying and hiding became my life and this meant marrying a woman and having kids to hide my homosexuality. 

From a very young age, heterosexual children are encouraged to express their opposite sex attraction. Friends and family ask little boys, "Do you have a girlfriend?" We have Valentine's Day. We're encouraged to date. We have proms which are like mock marriages. And we see our heterosexual parents as examples for the relationships we should have. Magazines, television, and movies all reinforce heterosexual relationships. At some point in my childhood, I thought I was the only gay person on Earth. Rather than embracing this different part of me, I learned to mask it and play straight. 

​So while I've probably always known I was gay, I chose to hide it out of fear. We're not that different DH. The difference is that you were raised in an environment that encouraged rather than persecuted your sexuality. I'm thrilled that young gay people have positive gay role models and happy gay couples as examples these days. I hope I've answered your questions. If not, please feel free to write again.

Which you answered. I am so sorry for any confusion.

Good day everyone. I wasn't referring to you Lyonene in my comments and I apologize for the confusion. I was referring to a dust up a few weeks ago. No need to apologize DH as I just didn't understand your message. In reply to what you wrote:

​"I was just asking if when our spouses say they didn't know they were gay before they got married. If it's just part of them denying it and they are just giving us a line."

​I'm happy to share my opinion. But please keep in mind that this reflects my own personal experience and doesn't necessarily speak for the entire gay community. I firmly believe that I was born gay, just like I was born with green eyes. From what I've read, most people start to become sexually self-aware sometime between the ages of 5-15. So yes I was fully aware of my same-sex attraction before marrying. I simply chose to deny and supress it. ​Looking back, a number of things suggested I was gay, namely:

​- Most of my friends were girls
​- In school, I was involved with choir & theatre 
​- On the rare occasions when I had male friends, they were very exclusive boyfriend-like relationships
​- I had little interest in organized sports
​- My best friend and roommate in college was gay (he came out after we graduated)
- Later most of the employees I hired were gay men
​
I was always fascinated with gay men and gay culture. When married, sex with my wife always felt forced. While it was tolerable in the beginning to sleep with a woman, gay porn killed off my ability to pretend I was interested in hetero sex. Sadly, my wife went without and my sex life was reduced to masturbating to gay porn. While I remained married and very affectionate, I stopped having sex with my wife because I was living out my gay desires, albeit virtually. The cheating with real-life men came near the end of my relationship.

​So in response to your question, yes I believe that deep down most gay people know they are attracted to the same sex. They just can't admit it to themselves or others. So it's time to stop listening to what gay in denial people like me say and just look at the facts. When our spouses ask us if we're gay, the knee-jerk reaction is to deny it. Why? Because we've built a whole life around denying our sexuality. That's why we married opposite-sex partners despite not feeling sexually attracted to them. When I look back, my entire life screamed "gay" but somewhere along the line, I chose to deny it. Perhaps this explains why so few friends and family were surprised when I finally came out. Clearly they knew I was gay long before I did. 

I think we need to look objectively at someone's actions to determine if they are gay, straight, or bisexual. A straight man watches straight porn and has sex with women. That's what straight men do. Full stop. While a gay spouse may continue to deny their homosexuality, they can't hold their breath forever. Their actions, web histories, and sexual partners all confirm their true attraction. When a man no longer has sex with women, watches only gay porn, and only has sex with other men, he is of course gay. The same applies to women who only sleep with other women. What's confusing for straight spouses is a man who does all of these things, while still claiming to be straight.  

Last edited by Séan (May 6, 2017 11:16 am)

wasn't referring to you Lyonene in my comments and I apologize for the confusion

No worries, Sean, thank you.

may as ask how you know about this stuff? Because when I came across forced fem I had to read it over and over to even grasp it!

Duped, it's a very long story. The shortest version I can give you is - I reside in a liberal west coast state. My state has gone round the bend with this gender bs. Public bathroom laws, title ix, indoctrination in public schools, dressing rooms in stores, locker rooms in excercise facilities, etc. Women and children here have had to deal numerous incidences both criminal and threatening.

We have here in my state a man in prison convicted of multiple murders of women right now claiming that he is innocent because he is now not the man that committed these murders due to becoming a MtT.
http://crimefeed.com/2016/10/douglas-didnt-stop-donna-stopped-it-the-trial-of-donna-perry-asks-an-unusual-question-can-gender-reassignment-surgery-really-stop-a-serial-killer-from-hunting/ We also have convicted rapists acting as very vocal trans activists. http://notcisjustwoman.tumblr.com/post/97514127434/jonathan-adrian-wolf-rapes-deaf-woman-changes
In Olympia a MtT was harrassing a girls swim team. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227562/Colleen-Francis-Outrage-transgendered-woman-permitted-use-college-womens-locker-room-exposing-himself.html Their answer to this was to violate the girl's title ix rights and move them to a locker room the size of a bathroom. "Colleen Francis" was quick to pull down all his online sexual activity when this went public, but not quick enough. https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/olympia-wa-school-officials-state-gender-identity-provision-overrides-title-ix-equality-for-girls-swim-teams/

You get the idea.

If people understood what was going on, really going on, the popularity supporting this trend would come to an end. Sadly, most people do little to no research. They make very uninformed decisions.

Thank you to both of you for sharing. Something Duped wrote struck a chord with me:

​"Now however, he does seem different, I can see he's not spending anything like the time he was alone, doing these things...he says he's not doing them at all, I will never be sure. He is trying to be everything I wanted, it's so hard. Time will help I guess."

​I've often described this as the honeymoon phase or a time after the gay/straight couple clash when the gay-in-denial husband is on his best behaviour. He'll often be attentive, loving, and may even try to have sex with his wife. This may leave his straight wife a bit disoriented because suddenly he's no longer a Craigslist-surfing, porn addict, abusive pr*ck. Unfortunately, all honeymoons eventually end.  

Gay-in-denial husbands (or "GIDH") are often narcissists. Narcissism is a mental illness which consists of an extreme form of self-centredness, to a point that narcs are often incapable of empathizing with others. I believe narcissism is the coping mechanism for many gay-in-denial husbands. I myself was a full-blown narc while I cowered in my own closet. Ironically, GID narcissists project strength and confidence when we are anything but. We need kind & caring partners, often called empaths, to shower us with a constant supply of love, approval, and validation. Why? Two reasons: first, we need our straight spouses as cover to hide our homosexuality. Make no mistake, hiding our true sexuality is the #1 priority of all GIDHs. If you leave, we risk being outed and, most importantly, rejected by the people around us. Second, when we find ourselves alone, GIDHs are consumed by a toxic self hatred for being gay. Most of us can't function alone and haven't for years. It's much easier for us to pick on our straight spouses, cruelly blaming our kind partners for everything wrong with our marriages when we are in fact to blame.   
​
​Turning now to what Duped shared, I believe his good behaviour is part of a honeymoon phase. When a straight wife has finally had enough and is on the point of leaving, the GIDH panics. He does EVERYTHING he can to keep her. So after years without sex, a kind word, nor any affection, the straight spouse finds herself showered in gifts, compliments, and (what!) he now wants to have sex. It rarely lasts. If he no longer appears to be on Craigslist nor surfing porn, he's probably just doing a better job of hiding it. In my opinion, unless he has admitted his same-sex attraction, owned his mistakes, and genuinely apologized, the good behaviour is simply a short-term act. Once the straight spouse is safely back under the GIDH's thumb, he'll often go back to his bad behaviour. He can only tread water for so long.

​Thanks again for sharing Duped. I hope that helps in some small way.