OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum / thoughts occasioned by the film "Hope Springs"

**Posted by OutofHisCloset** September 19, 2019 8:06 am

Has anyone else seen "Hope Springs"? It's the story of a long married couple whose life together consists of nothing more than years together and living in the same house. The wife can no longer bear the loneliness of that life--never so alone then when alone with a distant spouse--and demands they visit a marriage counselor. In the film, by the end their romance is rekindled, and the film ends with a re-commitment ceremony marked by mutual honesty, the humor honesty fosters and allows, and genuine and committed love.
I found myself in tears often throughout the film. It was so accurate in its portrayal of the distance between the two spouses and the loneliness of living in that situation. I saw my own situation in that portrayal. And I also saw myself in the desperate wife, living a life devoid of intimacy or even the recognition of its absence, and her hope that it could be re-kindled.
But in the resolution of the problem, I was no longer a part of the intended audience, and the plot was no longer one I could read myself into. At that point, I was looking in at a heterosexual marriage, from the perspective of a straight spouse. Because as all of us know, there was no marriage counselor that was going to provide us with exercises that could fix what was wrong in our marriages.
This hit me pretty hard, the realization that all those years of hoping what was wrong could be set right, all those attempts, all the self-blame, all those recriminations of his about my failures that I took to heart--all were doomed to failure because I was married to a person who could never give me the intimacy I craved and that he'd promised by marrying me. And it made me so very angry: all those wasted years, hoping and trying and hurting, and the vanishingly small possibility that at 65 I will ever have a chance at real intimacy.
Yes, it was a film. Yes, the story it tells, that one can re-kindle a marriage though the courage and commitment of both parties to work at it, can be looked at as a story both simplistic and unrealistic. But to know that the possibility of believing in even that little bit of narrative magic was denied me by living, unknowingly for most of my marriage, in a MOM that precluded intimacy, hit me pretty hard.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (September 19, 2019 8:13 am)

**Posted by Julian_Stone** September 19, 2019 12:11 pm

That's one of the saddest things about all of this, isn't it? None of us get married thinking everything is going to be perfect. We all anticipate the bumps, the ebb & flow. We think certainly there is nothing we can't overcome....just like the couples in the movies, right?....Until we're struck over the head with TGT. My husband & I did couples therapy just a few weeks post-disclosure. It was expensive and emotionally draining, but it seemed necessary at the time. I needed answers that I now realize I'll never get. I needed empathy that I also realize I'll probably never get. But, most of all, I desperately needed to *fix* us. But there is no magic wand to wave away TGT. And for many of us, our stories remain incomplete....until we find a way to write ourselves a new narrative. I haven't gotten there yet, but it's encouraging to read the stories of those who have.

**Posted by a_dads_straight_journey** September 19, 2019 12:23 pm

OOHC
once again you are so on point. The magnitude of processing the essence and truth of our marital narrative, post discovery. It was doomed from day one to not have intimacy, there are no tools or exercises to fix this. The longer we were married the harder to accept the opportunity lost. This is the precious gem that was stolen by the denial, that few who have not experienced it can understand. It is hard, fucking hard, and it still casts a long of shadow of resentment on the gay/trans spouse. For me that theft affects nearly every interaction I have with my ex in co-parenting. ‘ You took enough, I have nothing left to give you in terms of favors, co- operation, etc. ‘. The emotional fortitude it takes to remain civil with her in the context of that theft is unhealthily taxing.

Fortunately, I have found that desired intimacy in my newly married life; my greatest hope for you and others here is that each find it too. On my homefront, maintaining civility in the co-parenting is a sustained mindfuck and a invasion to my family life that still pisses me off that it even has to exist.

JS, you are early in this journey and young compared to many here. And you say you want to stay for your daughter. Be mindful that the cognitive dissonance of wanting to preserve family vs not have intimacy because of TGT can wear one down like the proverbial boiled frog that adapts to the rising water temperature and dies. There is a threshold for each of us where our lack of well-being in the relationship negates the benefits of our staying for our children. Only you can know that threshold. I wish for you that you not find yourself in a place decades from now resenting lost time.

All the best,

ADSJ

Last edited by a_dads_straight_journey (September 19, 2019 12:58 pm)

**Posted by Rob** September 20, 2019 7:32 am

I understand the loneliness while in the marriage... it was something I could not quite put my finger on. That was probably the only indication of TGT I had..

Its rare but as a straight guy I sometimes find myself watching hallmark movies.. I find the heterosexual relationships comforting.

Last edited by Rob (September 20, 2019 2:31 pm)

**Posted by OutofHisCloset** September 20, 2019 11:16 am

Julian Stone,
Yes, we think of the difficulties that might arise: a spouse's affair, a cancer diagnosis, a child's difficulties, even just the staleness of married life. We know these can be trying, and can try our marriages and our love, but they are challenges we know others have negotiated, and that there are road-maps out there. This is true even for the less anticipated events, like domestic violence, or gambling or drug addictions. But this out-of-left-field blind-siding hit of the gay/trans thing is something that I wager few of us ever thought possible, and there just aren't many resources or support available; it's not a well-known story, and our side of it just isn't explored. If we're acknowledged at all our pain is left aside (say, "Brokeback Mountain"), and it's in the context of the larger story of two gay people discovering their love.

**Posted by Leah** September 20, 2019 3:38 pm

I love this thread OOHC, you express it so well, that sense that all the efforts were just not ever going to make anything better. And yet the manipulation of our GIDXs that made it seem somehow our fault or normal and that we were the problem is so enraging.

I read "Love Warrior" and I recommend it with caution as I have been stomping around in a rage all week after reading it. The raw emotion expressed by the author Glennon Doyle whose husband was having ONS throughout their marriage just triggered me massively. I just tried so damn hard to please and fix the situation that as you say OOHC was never ever fixable. Not only unfixable, really not a problem they want to fix - they just want acceptance of THEIR way. No compassion for how it has affected our lives. The way she expresses the conditioning that women often have of pleasing and moulding themselves to be loved and accepted just hit me like nothing else has recently. I'm so angry at that undermining that has compromised my mental health, made me feel inadequate and after so many years of feeling this way the reprogramming is hard to do. I still have to really confront self-denigrating thoughts about it being my fault. The depression hits and I'm lonely and it is easy to go into familiar thought patterns around the what ifs and if onlys. My GIDX won't speak to me at all and is angry which is so typical of every argument we ever had. It is my fault. It just seems to never end.

The magnitude of processing it all! Good phrase ASDJ. The processing is just so difficult, esp. with such long marriages like ours. Like you Julian, I wanted to preserve my family above all. But really I needed to preserve my own happiness and mental health. The minute my youngest left home, it all came out....not that he did, but the marriage ended soon after the youngest left home. So then there is the empty nest syndrome too to process. And my age now to start again, it all feels tough at 55 now.

**Posted by lily** September 20, 2019 5:33 pm

Hi Leah,

I have taken the view that wanting to please your partner makes you good relationship material and I don't want to try changing and I couldn't even if I wanted to, not because it is an engrained learnt behaviour but because it is who I am.

It's not that I need to change in that way to keep safe either - I have learnt my lesson. It is shocking but I have learnt it now. There are people, the transgender seem to me to be the pinnacle of this - when they open their mouths out comes this charming tone of voice that is irresistible, it is not foolish to have been taken in, even knowing what is happening it is still irresistible, but now that I can pick that tone of voice I am able to stand back. The GID is not far behind, they just seem like such nice people, who would not want to please them but my observation is that reality is stark - the more charming the more irresistible that tone of voice, the more you need to watch out.

**Posted by Leah** September 22, 2019 3:02 pm

Yes Lily, good point. I guess I am at a stage of trying to find the edge between the learnt behaviours and what is in my heart. I do like to please people in my life and show love in that way. And I feel I am still trying to keep safe in ways that make it hard for me to trust. And if we can’t be charmed by people who are simply charming, then...isn’t that trying to keep safe by making judgements coloured by our experience with TGT?

**Posted by lily** September 23, 2019 7:20 am

Hi Leah, I started writing a reply earlier but got distracted so here I am back at the end of the day. I hope you are going okay, yes so your descriptions of how bad TGT sucks hit the spot. That ultra nice tone that these people have - I recognise it now, I feel stifled and I am literally feeling like if I can't get away soon I will have an allergic reaction.

I know I am being fed a line, and I know the charm is about getting what they want even as I am smiling and nodding and being charmed and wanting to go along with whatever they want. The sooner I can walk away from the conversation the better.

It is so different to being charmed by someone with a nice nature. Emotionally speaking, the manipulator is in the shallows and all you need to do is stand back for a bit and you can see what they want and the other is in the deeps and has a good influence.

**Posted by beingatpeace** September 27, 2019 8:07 am

This is a great post, with a lot of insight.

All of you expressed emotions, truths, etc that all of us are going through. As we level up in the matters of the heart, putting all the pieces together, realizing painful truths and acceptance of the cards we were dealt with when it's not in accordance to what we deserve. This is all hard work.

We're all beyond the level of superficiality on a lot of things. It's not our first time getting disappointed in life. Not our first rodeo.

How can we all survive this and come out of this, relatively unscathed? Cause our mind states matter and I wouldn't like for any of us to go through our day scared by their deceptions - subconsciously.

Last edited by beingatpeace (September 27, 2019 8:12 am)