Posted by Leah August 21, 2019 6:53 am | #11 |
MJM017 I totally get where you are coming from. And all the advice is well meaning, but it is so hard to soften our heart towards someone who we know was so hard hearted towards us for so long. The anger that they say poisons the one who holds it more than the one it is directed at is so real and forgiveness seems so far away at those times. BUT and I hate this too, I realize now that I am NEVER going to get what I wanted and needed from my GIDX. He cannot be other than he is. The leopard won't change his spots and all the cliche's in the world are true on this one. But I get to choose who I will be in relation to him. So forgiveness is to be your best self. Not focusing on something outside yourself that may or may not help you. Forgive yourself for not feeling forgiving "enough" yet. Let yourself be comforted by the fact that you are even contemplating forgiveness and it is causing you to be upset. Those feelings of upset and anger are part of the process, imho. I love what ADSJ said - we don't have to condone their behaviour, just anticipate and accept it as part of their tendency to lay the problems to our door. We have to see clearly they are not ours. Including the expectation of ourselves to be other than we are, hurt, at times angry and confused. They are not our problem and forgiving them does nothing for them and everything for us. Annoying though it is, it is true. I'm still a long way away from that ideal too, but feeling more spaciousness everyday.
Sending hugs,
L
Posted by walkbymyself August 21, 2019 8:18 am | #12 |
I'm working on forgiving myself for being such a total fool all these years.
I have never posted my full story, and I think it's partly because re-visiting it is too painful. And, I have no way of knowing whether my husband (or his lawyer) is lurking to see if any damaging admissions might come out.
I will say this much: being cut off sexually was deeply humiliating and painful to me. I was too ashamed to talk to anybody about it. Once I realized my husband had same-sex attractions, I assumed, wrongly, that he was living a celibate life out of guilt and obligation to me, and I felt it was my obligation to show the same loyalty to him. On rare occasions when I was able to confide in people about my sexless marriage, they never hesitated to tell me I was cheating myself out of the full human experience. I should have listened, and I didn't. I honestly thought it was what I needed to do to keep my marriage and my family together. I thought "if he can do it, I can do it."
So when I found out he had been cheating, prolifically, the whole time, and I confronted him, he asked me, somewhat incredulously, "Did you think I was celibate?" And the truthful answer was "Yes".
You know what his response was? And he said this as if it was so obvious I could hardly disagree with the logic of it ... he said "But how would that have been fair to me?"
Said to my face, as if no reasonable person could possibly disagree with it. To the person he inflicted celibacy on without explanation for twenty years. Even now, when his lawyers talk about settlements being "fair to him", it triggers rage in me. His idea of "fair" was to inflict celibacy on me for twenty years, but not on him, because it wouldn't be fair to HIM.
I pointed out to him that he had inflicted that on me, that I'd never cheated, that I hadn't had a shred of human intimacy for two decades. His response: "I never told you you couldn't."
Which is bullshit, of course, we had a whole wedding and said vows in front of everybody. But it just poured salt in the open wound, explaining to me that he didn't owe me fidelity because my two decades without affection or intimacy wasn't of any value to him, so why should he feel guilty.
I'm busy trying to forgive myself at the moment, and I'm afraid there isn't room in me to forgive him.
Last edited by walkbymyself (August 21, 2019 8:21 am)
Posted by Rob August 21, 2019 9:18 am | #13 |
Walk,
Your season with this selfish person is almost over. Your time in the (gay) valley almost done.
Just because his conscious and morality let him cheat doesnt mean yours had to. That is what sepearates us from them..our word is good, our promises real. Them/him..their morality changes with the weather..a scary thing.
It is sad..we loved so strongly and it just wasnt enough for these spouses. Insatiable is what they are. No time is this more apparent than when we start to separate from them.
I urge you though..before you exit the valley. Remain stoic, faithful in your morality, in your negotiating your legal settlement...do whatever you have to do.
Know that there is an end ..but you get one chance at a fair to you legal settlement..dont let anyone tell you otherwise..dont give in and agree to crap just to be rid of him quickly. Know that all the pain is of his making .
Stand your ground, head held high, face in the wind...
Posted by Blue Bear August 21, 2019 11:25 am | #14 |
I'm so sorry you are going through this. After a lot of reflection on my personal situation, here's my analysis of "forgiveness". Maybe you will find it helpful, too.
In the traditional concept of forgiveness, the perpetrator genuinely seeks forgiveness from the victim after appreciating what they have done. Very few of us will obtain this from our gay spouses, and I'm not going to squander my precious time waiting for my STBXW to grovel and beg for forgiveness. To quote The Chump Lady, "Glaciers will melt, refreeze, and become ice swan sculptures at gay weddings in Saudi Arabia before that happens." (See Chapter 5 of her book, and the reader letter from "Wondering".)
This means that you cannot "forgive" in the traditional sense. Again, I point you to the Chump Lady on this (https://www.chumplady.com/2017/07/do-you-have-to-forgive-a-cheater-2/), and the brilliant quote she found from Desmond Tutu, in which he redefines "forgiveness""
"However, when I talk of forgiveness I mean the belief that you can come out the other side a better person. A better person than the one being consumed by anger and hatred. Remaining in that state locks you in a state of victimhood, making you almost dependent on the perpetrator. If you can find it in yourself to forgive [i.e., coming out on the other side a better person not consumed by anger and hatred] then you are no longer chained to the perpetrator. You can move on, and you can even help the perpetrator to become a better person too."
This re-definition of forgiveness was really helpful to me, particularly since I've got wonderful kids, a lot of life left to live, and a lot to be thankful for. My goal isn't to wait in vain for a request for forgiveness that will never come; my goal is to come out on the other side of this hellish experience a better person. While I cannot control my STBXW's actions, the silver lining is that if this approach makes her a better person for the sake of the kids and sane co-parenting, then that's no small added bonus.
This is how I see "forgiveness". Good luck.
Last edited by Blue Bear (August 21, 2019 12:07 pm)
Posted by OnMyOwnTwoFeet August 23, 2019 6:08 pm | #15 |
WalkBM: It was brave and also generous of you to share these more personal details of your story. How horrifying. How traumatic. I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Hold on. Best to you.