MJM,

I totally get what you’re saying.  You and only you can process your feelings.  I don’t post very often anymore.  Even removed “my story” for personal reasons.  BUT, I do read posts every so often.  But your post struck a chord with me.  It’s been four years since I left my GIDXH .  I have not seen him in a little over three years (the day he tried to kill me, AFTER our divorce ). I don’t ever expect to see him again, we didn’t have any kids (although I helped raise his for 22 years).

I lost those “kids” and my “granddaughter” plus live every day of my life living with pain from the attack and an ohh so lovely scar and chunk of flesh missing from my forearm (he should be in prison , but hey it is what he is).  So for me, forget ?  I wish!  But since that is impossible.  I am remarried now and re building my life.  With a man who loves and actually WANTS me.

But forgiveness.  I struggle. Yes I’m grateful to be alive and still have an arm , which ohh so many people have told me to be.  I guess the bottom line for me. I know he hates himself.  I can truly look back and say that I understand his reasons for hiding.  I can look back and see that he “tried “ to be a good husband in the beginning.  So I guess most days I forgive him for that beginning.  But the second decade of our marriage. No I can’t forgive him.  All the gaslighting, absolute mental cruelty I let myself suffer.  In denial of the real problem , being deflected by his drug addiction.the last four years as I started to figure it out and his denials about everything.  I too just wanted that apology.  As I figured it out slowly and so many times confronted him and begged him to just admit it (I finally found proof after I left him).  Then the very end, I’ll never know if his attempt to take my life was a psychotic drug induced rage or planned (our house was sold and closing in a week, we had rite of survivorship on the house in the divorce decree)

So for me, forgiveness is for me and all my mistakes.   I’ve put HIM in God’s hands.  I try and focus on gratitude for what I do have.  One of my favorite new things I just read.  Talks about dwelling in the past.  Think about how small a rear view mirror in a car is, vs how large the windshield (ie future) is.  I really try and focus on that , when I’m wallowing in sorrow or anger (like today over the pain in my arm or everything that I worked most of my life for and lost).

I wish you all the best.

I agree the problem is the expectation, and how twisted it is.  I got at this somewhat in the thread about Ed Smart.  But my therapist says it this way:  "It touches all the compassionate in you and absolves him of any compassion."

Once, during a therapy session, I was very upset with my ex-spouse. My spouse, once again, did something that did not take me or the kids into consideration. The only consideration was what was best for hir and to hell with the rest of us. I was hurt because, once again, my ex (still married at the time though) showed what little regard ze had for me - what little value I had to hir. Here's the thing though..... I could have avoided it. I could have gone to the attorneys, but I didn't. My therapist asked why I didn't avoid it, and I told her that I wanted to give my spouse a chance to do the right thing. I desperately wanted my spouse to show that ze still cared for me and was (possibly) even a little remorseful for everything ze had put me through. It led to a great session about the importance of me accepting the truth of my ex's character. And it was hard to accept, but I married a skillful manipulator. A liar who will say/promise anything and be super kind and generous in order to sway things in the direction ze wanted them to go. That was the character of the person I married. I had been fooled for decades, but the mask was off and now I could see clearly. In accepting that, I also had to stop giving hir an opportunity to "do the right thing" because ze has shown me over and over that ze won't, and it hurts me every time. Anyway, after that, I stopped giving those chances. I started to assert myself more, and instead of asking what my ex wanted to do, I started stating what I was going to do. (If that makes sense.) Anyway, and this is where the forgiveness part comes in, as I began to accept who ze is and began to plan and act as I would when dealing with someone who is selfish and deceitful to the very core, my anger lessened. Ze no longer angers me because I don't give hir the chance to hurt me anymore. Also, as my anger lessened, I was able to think about forgiveness and consider extending forgiveness to my ex.
 
So, for me, forgiveness has been about accepting who my ex is and acting accordingly. It is not about being okay with the hurt and pain ze inflicted. It is about seeing what an ass ze really is and knowing ze will always, always, always put herself before me and the kids.

I hope that all makes sense.

I’ve been reading the posts on the Ed Smart letter (the posts have been enlightening and very well done) and reflecting on the anger both there and in this thread and reflecting on my own frustrations and anger in dealing with my ex. 

I’ve posted this before but will post it again in a different context. Early on, post D-day, my therapist once used a metaphor on accepting that my wife is gay...if you leave the steak out to thaw, and the dog steals it, are you going to get angry at the dog, he was just being who he is.   

After months on Chump Lady and months here, and knowing gay people who did not chose the MOM route, and knowing that Western Society is more open to LGBQT than ever, I believe there is a character disorder in GID spouses that is beyond anyone’s control, and getting angry hurts us more than them. I don’t know if accepting that fact  is forgiveness, but it is liberating. It does not mitigate the emotional pain of the lost years or the grief of a farce marriage but does mitigate the anger in them not meeting expectations in the present. In my current coparenting arrangements, independent of TGT, by accepting these narcissistic tendencies, I can spend my emotional and intellectual capital on getting what I need out of the interactions. (Mainly schedules and finances).

I also shared before that I had a colleague I’ve known 40 years that came out to his wife the same year my ex came out. He was tormented and conflicted for months prior. He had also struggled with depression and contemplated suicide.  He had also fit the GID profile... same sex experiments in adolescence, years of gay porn since the internet, 3-5 years of hookups prior to disclosure, etc.   I learned of the double life in 2010.
He came out in early 2014 and yes it blew up his marriage and life. Ironically, my knowledge of his inner turmoil up to and during my divorce probably enabled a better settlement for me because during mediation I had some empathy for the inner  conflict my ex must be facing. I was so stoic during the divorce my therapist chastised me for NOT being angry.  I didn’t really get angry until after the divorce and had to live all the financial and scheduling challenges post divorce.

So I have been thinking about the patterns of my colleague and my ex, the patterns here of GID spouses, the Ed Smart letter, etc.,  there is just something absent in their acknowledgement of their culpability that infuriates us. In the simplest terms they lacked courage to examine themselves prior to entering a MOM, and they were narcissistic to use another to lie to themselves if not to lie to society,  and they hold external forces more accountable than themselves.

I believe the only path past the anger is to stop expecting that to change in them, to continue to anticipate that narcissistic tendency if we still need to interact with them and to rebuild from the ruins they left as best we can. (With all we know here on this site, is Ed Smarts letter really a surprise or exactly what we would expect from the GID profile - if the latter then why get angry? It’s predictable.)   I can NEVER condone my ex’s lack of courage in waiting so long to come out, and her bringing me along, and especially her bringing  children into it when the years of infertility we experienced presented a great opportunity for her to leave, but if I accept her disorder as unchangeable,  I can navigate her narcissistic tendencies, especially her tendency and skill at bringing others into problems she’s accountable for but cannot or will not handle. At least it releases anger at her if it is not forgiveness.

All the best,

ADSJ

Last edited by a_dads_straight_journey (August 18, 2019 7:46 am)

OOHC, I understand and I understand the triggers and I can only imagine the difficulty when confounded with ones religious experiences and faith and work life.  I’m sorry you have to untangle so many connections.  It’s a lot of work.  I also want to complement you on how well you articulate these complexities, and your dissection of the Smart letter was exceptional.

To all, to be clear, my question ‘why get angry?’ was more rhetorical than experiential. Even after nearly six years, I still struggle with the anger over the consequences of my ex’s denial and the timing of her coming out,  and her lack of full acknowledgement of the impact of her denial on others.  My point was the first step in this, is accepting both intellectually and emotionally that she will not change. So I did not mean to imply that I was past all of the anger but I am getting there.

ADSJ

Last edited by a_dads_straight_journey (August 18, 2019 5:08 pm)