Posted by OnMyOwnTwoFeet  February 16, 2019 1:35 pm | #1 |
Some articles linked below. The first, on covert narcissist marriage, is the one I hope to hear your thoughts about! The other articles, at the bottom, are just in case someone wants to read more.
Just the word “narcissism” can cause a flurry. So first some qualifiers!
1-I know “narcissism” is a buzzword lately. It gets thrown around like “codependent” and can be a slur and lose its meaning. And it definitely has a lot of clickbait links.
2-Some articles (not linked here) and my therapist have mentioned the importance and normalcy of some levels of narcissism. It can be healthy in the right doses, and we all need a little self focus.
3-I am NOT saying that homosexuality and narcissism are necessarily linked. I know this has been used to malign in the past. Maybe yes, maybe no, just as with the general population. So for Balance at the end, some of Loren Olsen’s thoughtful and person-based looks at that question.
Now the main article and my question!
My own marriage had a pattern of criticism. Quiet voiced usually. Subtle yet pervasive. Also, a whirlwind of expectation that I would fill the hole of his pain and discomfort. I had recognized this pattern a few years ago, but only this year discovered TGT. Overall, I think those negative relationship patterns are the real problem in my marriage. Mixed with my hisband’s Difficult childhood, GID in him became a toxic environment.
Recently, looking at that challenge of criticism and expectations in my relationship, and NOT looking for anything on TGT, I found this article on “The Covert Narcissist Marriage.” I appreciated its insights and balance more than other articles on narcissism in relationships.
I think this kind of marriage is probably closely linked to the GID spouses more than the warm and more honest spouses discussed on these boards. The pain we express in our posts seems different based on the level of narcissism in the relationship.
https://couplestherapyinc.com/the-covert-narcissist-marriage/
Now, just for balance and further reading for people who want to read a lot!
Here are three articles, for counterpoint on homosexual spouses and narcissism. No need to read these to discuss the first one above!! I am actually most interested in discussing that article above, on covert narcissist marriage. But in case anyone wants to go deeper, and to offer balance, and to not be a basher, here are some articles by Loren Olsen, who has also been interviewed on the SSN podcast, and I really appreciated his discussion there with the podcast moderator.
https://www.lorenaolson.com/bisexuality/are-all-gay-men-narcissists/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finally-out/201807/digging-deeper-straight-spouses
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finally-out/201807/digging-deeper-straight-spouses-part-ii
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Posted by lily February 16, 2019 3:25 pm | #2 |
well I think the idea that a GIDH can be a BFF is highly questionable - interesting that in all that Loren Olsen article I read he is saying ooh I was in denial ooh it was awful feeling guilty and so on - the only time his wife's feelings came into the picture was when he said she agreed with him.
The thing that amazes me looking back on my marriage is how quickly my ex was able to establish the dynamic where it was me criticising myself, it happened very early on in the marriage - he didn't have to criticise me, I did it for him and so he appeared to others to be so supportive of me when actually he was undermining me with subtle criticisms so they'd end up thinking he was wonderful for putting up with me.
tbh, I thought that the main article was a bit all over the place and the conclusion that some narcissists can be treated kinda goes against the generally accepted definition of narcissism as a personality disorder - i.e. who they are and therefore untreatable. Like being gay is untreatable. Or being straight is untreatable for that matter, it's who we are.
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Posted by Nuked2018 February 16, 2019 4:09 pm | #3 |
Thank you for posting this:
This is exactly the way my marriage has been, I sat here and cried while reading what you said. This is exactly my experience. There was always this black hole that I wasn't perfectly filling and he had a bad childhood as well. For my GID the constant covering up and lying which increased the shame made things worse and worse. What you said below is spot on to my experience.
My own marriage had a pattern of criticism. Quiet voiced usually. Subtle yet pervasive. Also, a whirlwind of expectation that I would fill the hole of his pain and discomfort. I had recognized this pattern a few years ago, but only this year discovered TGT. Overall, I think those negative relationship patterns are the real problem in my marriage. Mixed with my hisband’s Difficult childhood, GID in him became a toxic environment.
All the pain money can buy,,,
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Posted by OnMyOwnTwoFeet February 20, 2019 7:39 pm | #4 |
Thanks both of you for reading and engaging!
Nuked: yes! I the article described my experiences, and It meant a lot to me to read that because it made my experience seem validated.
Lily: thanks! I agree with you that the covert narcissist article was rambling, especially at the end. I also agree with you about Olsen omitting his wife’s feelings. He writes 35 years after the fact, and I think that made it easy for him to avoid a hard look at what was sure to have been some real suffering, although I have seen him use the word “suffering” when writing about his wife’s situation. When I scanned from his book “ letting go of living straight” (husband ordered it), one thing that really bothered me was how he talked about how he and his wife both had to discuss and take responsibility for the hurts they had caused each other. IMO, his affair was a much bigger hurt than any normal marriage hurts. I am really sensitive to this idea that a spouse can say, “well I was unhappy so instead of trying to work it out with you, I had an affair.” And in the case of our gay or bi spouses, this becomes, I had to turn to the other sex because you were failing me in made-up way x y or z.
Also Lily, your comment about how quickly your husband trained you to self-criticize—that really resonates with me. Thanks.
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Posted by Haven March 12, 2019 11:07 am | #5 |
Reminds me of an interesting discussion with my therapist who also has transgender clients. Some of them transition but end up still are looking for something to fill a hole they have. They hoped coming out and transitioning would fix the problem but still didn't-my therapist described that as a form of narcissism. I suspect my CDH who is trying to figure out things would end up not feeling much better for same reason. But inspires me to just work on being happy where I'm at no matter what my current relationship is like, my body shape or whatever.
