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July 8, 2021 6:12 pm  #31

Re: Do Gay men keep nude pics of other men on PC if not gay?

lily wrote:

Lynne, what I meant was you can't use the plasticity of the brain to make a person stop being transgender.  If they are they are.  Can a person be made to believe they are transgender, yes I think you're right in that, we are so easily influenced, but they still are what they are.

You cannot use brain plasticity to alter someone’s sexual identity or orientation. In the DSM prior to 1974 (I think) homosexuality was recorded as a mental disorder. This thankfully is no longer the case, and conversion therapy is a thing of the past because it does not work. Depending on how your brain developed in the womb you could have more feminine traits than male and vice versa. This means that when the personality starts developing, the individual may begin to exhibit cross gender behaviour which would feel entirely natural for them. In this day and age, these individuals can now have the option to medically transform into what they feel is their natural sex. A gay man who presents as feminine can become a transgender woman who’s femininity means that they have a natural attraction to masculinity and therefore become essentially heterosexual. Psychologists will assess those who are requesting gender reassignment to try to weed out those who simply believe that they want to become transgender because it felt like a good idea from those who genuinely identify as being the “wrong” sex. I think it is not a case of having to, or trying to convince someone they are in the wrong body. The individuals would simply know that this is the case.

Longway - why do you not believe the numbers are a lot bigger than generally assumed?  I know I only have my personal viewpoint but that is what I see around me, more MOMs than straight marriages.  OG has told us the statistic is 10% - I don't believe that statistic is accurate.  I think it is much more.  as well as what I see, my logic tells me it's only mathematics as our gene pool becomes increasingly complex, along with the rest of life.

I go with 10% as the figure for biologically gay individuals. It is estimated that only 3% are open about it, meaning potentially 7% have not revealed their sexuality for various reasons. Some of these people will be in MOMs without their spouses being aware it. You could argue a case for homosexuals actually being more likely to marry than a heterosexual individual these days. Whereas some heterosexual individuals may enjoy “playing the field”, the homosexual in an effort to conform to the heterosexual couple archetype could actually not be interested or even be unable to “play the field”. You could see quite a few MOMs as a strategy by a homosexual to try and manage their own same sex attraction issues. I know that marriage rates are still dropping at the moment as young people no longer see the same value in it that older generations did. I would imagine that the number of MOMs would stay the same even if the overall number of marriages continues to decline.

I think there's a lot of instinctive behaviour as well as what's learnt.  Testosterone is a powerful thing - depends on the person's nature as well the influences they come under.



Last edited by Ordinary guy (July 8, 2021 6:14 pm)

And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.

July 8, 2021 9:05 pm  #32

Re: Do Gay men keep nude pics of other men on PC if not gay?

yes it is all very interesting isn't it.

from what I understand people are mainly xx or xy.  there is a very small percent that differs - being xxy or whatever.

Then you get this thing where the chemistry in the womb affects the way the foetus forms but at a chromosomal level they remain xx or xy.  And though the paper I read describing this was about the different types of intersex, I imagine it is likely to be the same for gay and transgender if more mental than physical.

If it is only 10% of the population is gay then how come so many of them are around me?  


Last edited by lily (July 8, 2021 9:15 pm)


July 9, 2021 2:03 am  #33

Re: Do Gay men keep nude pics of other men on PC if not gay?

Interestingly, I can think of fifteen people in my circle who are openly gay. This may or not be a high proportion for a heterosexual man. This number is going to be statistically higher if you allow for the 7% of the population who are not out. The exposure to androgens in the womb, seems to have an influence on the orientation of the brain towards either masculine or feminine. The 2d-4d ration of the left hand is thought to show how much androgen exposure there has been. Typically males have a longer ring finger over the index finger. Females have the fingers at either the same length or actually reversed in proportion. This may lead to a higher likelihood of same sex attraction as a natural gravitation toward the corresponding masculine or feminine deficiency. Interesting in that this is the finger that wedding rings go on. Gay women are more likely to have a longer ring finger like men along with other subtle cues such as: The way that they walk, the pattern of speech they use naturally, the way that they hear and perceive sound and for me the one I think is important. The rate at which they blink their eyes is more like a typical man, with typical females having a blink rate of almost twice as high as males. The blink rate is used as part of the flirting ritual between men and women. I think that there is an unconscious key here in that males find this an attractive feminine quality. Hence why the coquettish batting of the eyelids during eye contact is so alluring. Eye contact is the most important part of unconscious communication and gay males probably use this with other gay males as an initial indicator. It is the instinctive reading of these subtle queues that results in the “gaydar” that people describe having. It is not ‘gaydar”, it is actually a skill that all people inherently have for discerning the receptive sexuality of the person we are interacting with. A few of my gay male friends will actually seem to physically change their demeanour when in conversation with me to then become more masculine when their partner is around. It is almost like a switch has been thrown dictating which social behaviour is required. There maybe some mileage in this as to how straight spouses get hoodwinked (deliberate pun) into believing that they are dealing with a heterosexual  partner. If you have had to repress your natural social behaviour to fit in to a heteronormative society it would become second nature to have an almost unconscious disassociated personality, a chameleon sexuality if you like. Perhaps if this is regarded as a normal and conscious way of being the disassociated personality may be self accepted as a bi-sexual self identity, this then changes over time to the full acceptance of a gay identity. There seems to be recurring theme in bi-sexual individuals suddenly identifying as gay after a period of time.

4882 days….

Last edited by Ordinary guy (July 9, 2021 2:33 am)

And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.

July 9, 2021 11:04 am  #34

Re: Do Gay men keep nude pics of other men on PC if not gay?

It makes sense to me that the number of openly gay people would be more the tip of the iceberg than the majority of gay people.


July 9, 2021 4:11 pm  #35

Re: Do Gay men keep nude pics of other men on PC if not gay?


Last edited by longwayhome (August 20, 2021 11:27 am)

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