OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

jkpeace · July 27, 2016 10:26 am

Hello, All,

Do we all have PTSD? Mostly all? Tons of us? Just wondering.

I am still struggling with trying to stay on good terms with my husband, but I'm always a mess, after I see him. Whether it's a positive or negative encounter doesn't seem to matter; I'm still quite a mess, for a few days after I see him.

For those of you who ended up with good relationships with your ex (I know that has been impossible, for some of you, for very good reason)...this is for those of you whose ex-spouses tried to be decent people, post-disclosure & post-divorce:

1. Did you have to put some time and space between you, until you healed? If so, how long did that take?
2. How did you handle children seeing the spouse, during that wounded/healing time?
3. How did you handle children seeing the spouse, after you were feeling stronger?

Thanks for your input. Again, I'm wanting to hear from those whose ex-spouse tried his/her hardest to do the right thing by the family, after disclosure (the time before the disclosure is such a different discussion).

Kel · July 27, 2016 11:27 am

I'm on generally good terms with my ex. Let's just say it's as good as it can be with him - who he is with me is as good if not better than any other relationship he has.

It was never my goal to be his friend. I never felt that he was - even in marriage. We were spouses, and I had my friends. My current husband is my best friend, so I get that. Anyway, I can't say it was a goal of mine, but I think it was a goal of my ex's for a long time - to remain friends. He did consider me his best friend.

1. Yes, I had to put time and space between us. It wasn't as difficult for me considering that by the time I told him I wanted a divorce, it'd been a long time since I was "in love" with him. He'd effectively killed all that off over the years with no intimacy. After my current husband came into my life (as my then boyfriend), my ex and I became more separated. Not because of the introduction of my boyfriend so much as because he let me know that the relationship that I had with my ex was not normal, and not good for me. My ex would call me every day for some reason or another, and I'd always pick up the phone as if he were anyone else. He would do things like come over and sunbathe in my back yard (with nothing but his swimsuit on) while he killed time to take the kids to an appointment. He'd have them bringing food out to him, like they were servants. He would not pay me child support, saying that he just didn't have the money. And I just kept on being *nice* to him - because I thought that was what I was supposed to do in order to look unlike all the money-hungry, mean ex wives out there.

My current hubby set me straight. He told me that it's not an OPTION for my ex to pay child support. Quick dickin' around and take him to court. So I did. And the judge told him that if he did this again, he'd be sitting in jail for it. He got the message. And the message was that a) I wasn't fucking around, b) the judge made it clear that child support is a COURT order - he's not going against me, he's going against the court - and they WILL press charges), c) If you won't respect me and your kids, I will make sure that you do. Once they are forced to respect you, they quit acting any old way they freaking want to. They don't have that option, so they start behaving.

The other things about my ex crossing boundaries with regards to my home had to be laid out for him. NO, he couldn't do more than pick up and drop off the kids. No, you don't come in unless I invite you. No, the kids can't invite you. No, you can't get a drink from my fridge or use my bathroom. This ain't your house no more. And no, the kids can't bring you food - my husband and I pay for that food, not the kids. Go to McDonald's if you're hungry. You know where it's at. My ex was LIVID when I laid this all out for him - "but, but.... I'm the kids' DAD!" "Yeah, so? I'm their mom. And we're not married anymore. You don't live here. Move ON, buddy!". I stopped picking up his phone calls when he called. Let him leave a damned message and I'd listen to it right after just to make sure it wasn't an emergency. It never was. I'd often just text him back - "got your message. That sounds fine. Thanks". No talking necessary. If he tried to call, I'd let it go to vm again. If I did have to call him back about something, I'd call in the evening, when I had time to talk. No, you can't interrupt my work day. I don't work at your convenience any more. And quit contacting me about every little thing. If it's not important, then don't bug me. I also gave him access to all the kids' info for school - signed him up for the website for grades, for school announcements, etc. I'm not your freaking secretary. I'll let you know if someone's going to the E.R. or if we have a huge school issue (like getting in trouble). Otherwise, no news is good news. Check their grades yourself. It worked.

2. Ever since my ex first moved out, I was happy for the kids to leave for the weekend. No squabbling in the house. I could get all the grocery shopping and laundry done. Could scrub floors and get the house in tip top working order for the next few weeks. AND I could sleep in, eat nothing but cereal if it suited me, and DATE! Woo hoo! My ex's mom still lived with me then, so I would go out with men but not bring them home. I had no problem with the kids seeing their dad. I felt it was good for them - they clearly missed him, and I felt it would make them feel better. It did. I allowed him to see the kids WHENEVER he wanted to - if he was swinging through town and wanted to take them for ice cream, have at it, people. I was NOT going to get in the way of their relationship. I never said an ill word about their father. Any poor opinions they have of him is from their own interactions with him. I encouraged my kids to let their dad know about school plays and concerts, and to invite him. If he called me for details (because the kids wouldn't know them), I'd usually just text him the details - place, date, time. That way he can't call me for it again in the future if he forgets or loses the scrap of paper he was writing the info on. He'd always call and ask if I wanted to go together. Nope, that's okay. I'll see you there.

3. My kids seeing their dad has never really changed much. Well, I mean it has, but just the logistics of it - not any of the emotional stuff behind it. We used to go by the book with stuff like holiday visitation - you get them this holiday, I get them the next. Now we really try to work it so that they kids can have what they want. If what they really want is to spend the 4th of July with their friends, then that's what they'll have. If they'd like to see both families for Thanksgiving, then we'll work it out. This past Christmas my sister admitted that she really missed the kids coming to Christmas Eve at her house (their dad always has them on X-mas eve, and I have them X-mas day). She asked if she could invite my ex over for X-mas eve, too - as a way to have him have the kids AND come. I said sure. Of course that meant inviting the ex's boyfriend, too. So be it. I'm long over him - it doesn't affect me to have him there. It didn't wind up working out due to other reasons, but I would have been happy had it worked out. My current dh didn't like the idea at ALL, but I wasn't really giving him much choice in the matter - this was about the kids, not him. And there would be so many people at the party that we really didn't have to interact much if at all with my ex.

I can't say that my ex has tried to do right by me and the kids. He's an okay guy, but not stellar by any means. The difference was that Iiiiii created boundaries, enforced them repeatedly, and let my ex know that respecting his financial and visitation obligations was not optional. And that if he made them such, I would show him that he was wrong. And you know what? It alllll worked. I don't have any idea how much of what that man does is due to fear vs. wanting to do the right thing. And I.don't.care. As long as he does it.

Kel

Kel · July 27, 2016 1:21 pm

You're going to be a positive example to your kids by showing them that when they get hit by an asteroid, they stand up, brush themselves off and get to work cleaning up the mess. There are other lessons that they could have learned instead that would be negative - like sitting in the asteroid hole on fire, shouting "WHY ME?!?!?" Your action of moving on in a positive way is going to be very powerful, jk.

Their father can and will be both a positive AND a negative example to them. The things that he did that made them feel loved and cherished and protected, they will keep and use as their own example of how to be a father one day, or what to expect from a spouse as a parent. The bad things still count as lessons, though - when your kids see negative examples (or even just a lack of any positive examples) in a certain area, they file that away, too. And they try to right that for their own kids someday. Let me give you an example......

I had wonderful parents. Not perfect, but really great. Now, my mom had come from a family where there was no leadership. Her parents were always at odds and fighting. She says that he father could never make a decision - about ANYthing. Hence the fights. Well, she determined as a little girl that she would be with a decisive man - one who she could be supportive of, and get behind - but one who was definitely the man and led the family. Well, she found that in my father. Only she picked a very extreme version of decisive - she picked a man who made snap decisions and then wouldn't/couldn't chose to go in a different direction if that decision proved to be a poor one. Stubborn. And he led alright - he was the boss of her, and she let him be. He worked, she stayed home. He brought in the money, and although he gave her plenty to run buy groceries and such, she never had any for what SHE wanted - home decorating. We literally had a shag carpet in our living room that was worn through the rug, through the backing, through the padding underneath, and we were wearing away at the linolium under that. Could she get a new carpet? No - there was no money. Only HE had a brand f'ing new motorcycle in the garage - bought for $6K without her knowledge. Well, I saw this and was like, "This isn't going to happen to ME, by God!" I was determined to work for my own money and make at least of the household decisions. And while I was at it, my husband would be helping around the house. And you know what? I got all that. Unfortunately Iiiiii went to far in that direction too - and wound up with a man would would rather be a stay at home husband and father - who rarely earned money and wanted to tidy all day while I worked. My point is that I took a lot of positives from my mother (and father), but I also used the negatives as examples of what NOT to do. Your kids will do the same thing.

Don't rule out that you will someday find someone else who will be a positive role model to your kids on what a good man and father looks like. I found that, and the kids get that daily now. They also get to see how a man should treat his wife - or women, for that matter. And on top of that, my husband had NO father - was born to a single mother, and was raised by her, her mother and her sister. NO male influence. And yet this is the best man and father I've EVER met. It's possible to have little example and turn out alright - it really is. All hope is not lost, girlfriend. You'll see.

Kel

whatasham24 · July 27, 2016 1:27 pm

Jkpeace, I have no distance between me & GIDTGH yet unfortunately so I can't speak to that experience like Kel has so awesomely relayed (II'm hopeful for the future after reading her mapping out of 'How not to take any more shit" in post divorce) I am still in the "figuring what to do next, but in the meantime, try & get your ass out of bed today stage" but someone posted this link about PTSD from a psychologist that very thoroughly explains the effects on one's emotional, physical make up as a spouse/partner of sex addicted personalities (which would also apply to Str8t spouses caught off guard). It is a very tough read as it is from a clinical viewpoint, but I strongly encourage you to grab a coffee, set aside an hr or 2 and read thru. I had so many aha moments & validations of both my feelings & reactions over the years. I'll be honest though, it had me further depressed, acknowledging that I indeed am suffering from PTSD and have been for a long time. I realize now what I naturalized myself to "the new normal", is rather a bloody boat load of insanely crippling baggage and abuse that would no doubt have long reaching & long lasting effects on my spirit. For example, living in a sexless marriage for the better part of 24 years is not only abusive, but also NOT normal. Combine that with a secret and obviously fulfilling hidden life full of emotional (& sexual?) contacts, away from me, does more damage than simply leaving a spouse "feeling lonely & undesirable".

I'm not suggesting to sit in a pity-party-for-one for too long, but it is SO important to recognize that the effect these experiences we've all had are not something that should be treated as simply "Your feelings have been hurt & you've been lied to, poor you, let's help you move on & learn to trust again". It is MUCH MORE reaching & insidious than that & it would be a harmful disservice to your future health & relationships to leave untreated. I for one will bring a copy of this article to my first therapy appointment with key/relatable statements highlited. If the therapist will not acknowledge the article's validity, I will find another therapist. I personally have been placated for years, some by my own doing, but also by society raising up the LGBT community for all their "braveness", but leaving the steamrolled over family members in the ditch, as never-mentioned fallout.

You mentioned "Whether it's a positive or negative encounter doesn't seem to matter; I'm still quite a mess, for a few days after I see him." . .
The article speaks to this very issue: "Hyper-arousal and re-experiencing is a well-established symptom of trauma in which specific internal/external, and objective/subjective stimuli, perceptions, thoughts, feelings or sensations will remind the psyche of the trauma and the system will react to the stimulus – causing psychological, cognitive and emotional changes related to fear, panic and feelings associated with traumatic memory (American Psychiatric Association, 2013). SAIT reactivation and re-experiencing among partners and spouses can become crippling in terms of clinical and functional impairment due to intensity, frequency and pervasiveness of reactivation cues. Triggers can be so nuanced and different for every partner; bill boards, magazines, other women, cell phones, blond hair, texting, computers, cities, massages, intimacy, sexual positions, Hispanic women, etc. Agoraphobia, panic attacks; dissociative and fear-based perceptual lens will pervade and the consequent psychological-cognitive defensive systems of protection will emerge and be present." So go easy on yourself, it is a natural occurrence for a spouse.

It's important to realize how powerful Love is in healing & nurturing soul, but I also believe now how powerful Emotional Pain can be to spirit if left unacknowledged & unresolved.

here's the article in case you missed it on another thread:
http://theinstituteforsexualhealth.com/thirteen-dimensions-of-sex-addiction-induced-trauma-sait-among-partners-and-spouses-impacted-by-sex-addiction/

Wishing you Love & Bravery,
Whatasham

Kel · July 27, 2016 1:42 pm

One other thing - it is entirely possible for you to be in control of your own life. But I understand it's difficult to see exactly HOW to do that - where your boundaries should be, how you should enforce them, and so on. I didn't know where the boundaries SHOULD be, and I didn't know if I cared about setting some. I'm not a huge boundary person. My M.O. was always "nice". Understanding, giving, nice. I felt that if I was good by my ex, he'd be good to me when I needed the favor returned. Here I was, paying in advance for future favors, and he was being a complete asswipe to me. I was letting him slide on child support because I knew him well enough to know that he didn't actually have the money. Because he had no job. WHY DID HE HAVE NO JOB? Because NO ONE was pressuring him to pay for things that he told them he didn't have the money for! He was living with his mom who made more per month in retirement and disability than I brought home in my paycheck. There was NO.REASON all of his earnings couldn't essentially go toward satisfying the child support payments. But I was being nice, so he had no pressure. And you know what? No one was present for those phone calls to hear how nice, understanding and pliant I was being. It's not like I was getting credit in ANYone's mine except my OWN. Okay, so..... I'm being nice, it's getting me walked all over, and my new husband says to me one day, "Kel, WHY aren't you fighting for your kids' money? It's not YOUR money - it's the kids'. Why aren't you fighting for the money needed to support them?" And just like that, it was game on. It didn't matter if my ex felt that the child support was money coming to ME. It's not - I'm just a vehicle that it's coming through - TO my kids. If he wasn't going to feel obligated to support his kids, then I'd make sure he'd be forced to, anyway. I wasn't fighting against my ex, I was fighting for my kids. And I was determined that I wasn't going to lose that battle - I was the only one fighting for them anymore, after all.

Determine what you need. Then ask for it. If the answer is no, then you try another door, or play a different card. But STOP giving him all the power. YOU are in the power seat now - you have the kids in your possession. YOU hold the power to drag his ass to court every.single.year for more money if he gets a pay raise. He will eventually learn that it's in his best interest not to piss.you.off. My ex KNOWS that if the child support is late on any sort of regular basis, that I'll drag his ass back to court and ask that it be mandated that it be automatically withdrawn from his paycheck. AND that I'll ask to see his tax statement every year. AND that I'll ask for any tax refund in order to fill the hole of back support he owes me. He knows this. It keeps him in line. I don't threaten him, I just TELL him. "Your support checks have been all over the place lately, what's going on?" Then I listen calmly as he explains some bullshit excuse. I say, "Huh, that sounds stressful for you. Maybe we should just go to court and have it mandated to come right out of your paycheck - so you don't have to deal with all of this." Suddenly the support checks are all early. He's tested the waters. He knows he'd better just stay OUT of the water.

Kel

whatasham24 · July 27, 2016 5:37 pm

Peace, your therapist should be able to give you tools to cope with seeing him if it's absolutely necessary. Down the road, you'll either not see him as much, accept for the odd interaction with the children, or you simply won't give two shits! Won't that be nice?! I personally am holding on for the day I experience the latter. That is one graduation party I will be throwing for myself.

Sue · July 28, 2016 4:21 pm

JK,

What I'm finding is it takes time. There was a point in time where I could barely look at him. I was so filled with grief and sadness and the fact that this man whom I had trusted with my entire heart could betray me so deeply was overwhelming. And he was clearly happy. In a new relationship right away and completely hard on me -- I should get over it and I was overreacting. After 20 years of marriage.

Later, when then anger came, I could barely look at him because I couldn't trust myself. I wanted to rip his eyeballs out slowly and I seriously thought I might clock him. I kept my distance after a few angry encounters that were not good for my kids.

Now, I still have a hard time, but less so. Today was our first court date. We were in front of a magistrate, not a judge, because my husband filed for divorce but has been incredibly slow getting his required paperwork in to the court. The appt was really to my benefit, bc it was the court's way of making sure one person isn't left hanging. I was terrified to sit across him at a table. Terrified of court. But my lawyer is totally awesome and she really helped me relax. A good lawyer is ESSENTIAL. I recommend finding a woman because they just get it in terms of what this feels like. A woman lawyer who's been divorced is even better. And mine is tough. She takes no bullshit. I love her!

Anyway, to make a long story short, my husband is doing a lot of things he shouldn't to alienate me as a parent. His boundaries are horrible as far as the kids go. And because I respected him so much for so long, when he treated me like my reaction (depression, anger, grief) was just nuts, I became super afraid he'd find a way to take the kids from me. Then I learned that a lot of men pull this shit. They cut at the heart of your abilities as a mother because it hits so close to home for most women. This behavior sucks, but it's a result of their own fear and desire for control. They know they've turned the family upside down. They know most people think that's an asshole move. So they're on the defensive.

Anyway, when I see him now, I remember his false front of confidence is mostly just a bullshit facade game face. He's just as scared as I am, if not more so. He's going to be out A LOT of money. I'm not ultra scared any more. I fight back. I call him out when he's being a manipulative asshole. I let him know I'm disappointed that he can't seem to bring himself to coparent and then I don't talk to him unless necessary. The further I get away from him the better off I am.

Currently, a year in, I no longer grieve the loss of him. I am still grieving the loss of our family, however. And the loss of the life I knew as a SAHM and the confidence and ease I felt in my life. But to me, living a truer life, with the opportunity for straight love, is worth this current hell. I remind myself the courts are there to protect me and my kids. And I need to build a meth lab in my kitchen at least three times before they'll ever be taken away from me. Lol.

It's extremely hard to see someone who has hurt you in a way that is utterly devastating. I worry that I will offend sexual assault victims with this next thought, because I have never been sexually assaulted, so I'm assuming a lot. But in many ways, I felt like he was my rapist and I had to sit in the same room with him and turn my kids over to him every other week. Because he essentially raped my soul. He took my trust and my love and he hurt me in a way that only fellow straight spouses can understand.

All that being said, things are getting better. I'm able to fight for what I need. I am starting to accept, albeit slowly, that he does not want to co-parent. He wants me out of his life. He can't put the kids ahead of his own inability to look at me because of the guilt it causes him. He hates being the bad guy and my presence reminds him that he is no longer considered a good guy by many, many people. I so wish our kids' needs would help him rise above his desire to turn things around on and blame me, but it's just the way it is for now. Maybe in a few years he'll be less tense and we can talk together about the kids for their benefit. Maybe he won't and the kids won't need it because I'll do the best I can without co-parenting and it will be enough.

When I see him now he doesn't even look like the person I once loved. He still wears all the clothes I bought for him, but he has terrible bags under his eyes, has gained weight, and looks stressed. So it's becoming easier for me to separate from him emotionally. Because he's not the same person. That person was only a facade. This is the real him. And I loved the facade. And I deserve to love a real person who isn't so fucked up they lie about their sexuality for decades.

Another thing that's helped me so far -- dating. I didn't start doing that until I was good and ready, about 9 months in, but it reminded me that I am smart and beautiful and a good mom. I just got hurt very, very badly and no one comes out of that with a perfect smile on their face and no feelings. It's harder than hell to walk this path, but I swear it gets better. Hang in there. I never thought I'd feel happy again. I don't always, but I do now experience that emotion, as well as hope for my future. I'm still scared. Divorce is scary for everyone! But seeing him doesn't hurt as much.

Last edited by Sue (July 28, 2016 4:30 pm)

Keepinghope · July 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Yes, Sue. Thanks for putting all that so well. My kids are grown so I don't have to see him at this time but I worry about running into him somewhere. I can't even look at his pictures. I feel like an abuse victim as well, even worse because it was done under the cover of love. Ugh. I do not love him anymore or want him back in any way, but like you I am grieving hard for the family and life I thought I had.

I'm putting it back together (minus the dating, I'm in my sixties!) and my life is going to be great. I have divorced women friends who love to go out and have fun, and little granddaughters (on my side) who love me very much and just about squish me with their tight hugs! I'm still working and paying my bills just fine, for now. My divorce was final in December.

That is one year out. Yes, time helps so much.

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July 27, 2016 10:26 am #1

PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 27, 2016 11:27 am #2

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 27, 2016 1:21 pm #3

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 27, 2016 1:27 pm #4

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 27, 2016 1:42 pm #5

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 27, 2016 5:37 pm #6

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 28, 2016 4:21 pm #7

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

July 28, 2016 9:01 pm #8

Re: PTSD &/or time & distance needed for healing

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