Bec wrote: 
"..​Then she asked what divorce would look like.  Would I leave and leave the kids with him in the home?... Um no!  Oh so since you have a hard heart you expect him to leave and for you to stay all nice an comfy in your home??  .."

Did the therapist actually say this ?     That's ridiculous...      Who leaves or where people live is unknown... and the kids have 2 parents...the kids are not possessions that one of you gets to "keep".      What the divorce or the future looks like seems immaterial to the issue at hand...it sounds like deflection and fear mongering.
So your "therapist"  wants you to patch the marriage (that your spouse at his core can't participate fully in ) out of what ..fear and guilt?      Yeah, there's a good foundation to patch things up on...

It sounds like your visiting his therapist.    A good  therapist would not guilt you in anyway.     I say save your money from going to that... or next time you bring your dad/sibling with you so someone is on your side.    But why pay money for that.     These counselors and therapist are supposed to have complete empathy and put themselves in our shoes...    If they cannot understand or comprehend how we're feeling  (and who can) then they  are not really doing their job.
And in regards to religion...God would not want us to stay in a loveless marriage with a disloyal spouse..that is not a marriage.

Walk stoically forward doing what is right  for you and the kids.    

 

Last edited by Rob (May 18, 2017 6:02 am)

Hi Bec,

You know every bit of what I'm going to say below, but I still want to lay it all out for you in a different format than what you may be used to seeing it.  Just in case it can possibly help.

1.  Sexual intimacy with you was never important to him unless children were attempted to being produced.
2.  Outside of the time period of trying for children, you've lived in what's termed as a "sexless marriage" (defined as 10 or less instances of intimacy per year).
3.  The sex you did have was mechanical, non-emotional, non-connective, and not reciprocal with regards to your pleasure.  It was for his pleasure, and only when he desired it.
4.  There is no kissing except on the cheek.
5.  It's been 2 years now without any sexual intimacy whatsoever.
6.  Despite his apparent low need for sex with you, you have caught him watching porn and masturbating to it - even when on a trip with you (where sex should have been more adventurous due to a different location, etc.).
7.  The porn is often - and progressively moreso - of men, gay men, and trannies.
8.  Even when the relationship itself didn't have issues, there were (in your opinion) sexual issues.  The sexual issues are stand-alone; not stemming from the marriage itself.
9.  When altered by alcohol, his desire for what he truly sexually wanted - anal sex - came out.  This was never the case when he was in full control of his faculties and was able to control his projected image.
10.  From porn he graduated to watching people in real time (via Periscope).  He had people he followed - insinuating that he did this often enough to know how to use the site, and not just watch some random person for a quick 2 minutes every six months.  Despite this evidence, he claimed to not even know how to work the site/app.  He then proved otherwise by unfollowing about half of who he had previously followed, and then deactivating his account.
11.  Despite saying that he didn't even know how to use Periscope, he claimed that it was innocent - he was just looking out of curiosity.  But then wound up apologizing and giving you flowers (insinuating guilt - which insinuates knowledge of wrong-doing).
12.  He reactivated the account two months later and immediately began following more men.
13.  Even on your anniversary, all you got what a peck on the cheek.  What he gave to himself on said special day was watching two men masturbate on Periscope.
14.  The affair that you had was admitted by you (otherwise likely would have never been found out).  He didn't ask for details, and hasn't brought it up.  It's as though it doesn't even bother him.
15.  He continues to profess love and sexual desire for you.  He explains that he had no idea that you saw the lack of sexual reciprocation as a form of rejection.  He admits to no sexual interest in men.

All of the above has caused you much confusion and pain.  Because all the information you have gleaned about his behavior was obtained by you (rather than admitted by him), you have no assurance of a full knowledge of the breadth, width or depth of his actions.  The therapist then tells you that you need to have blind trust in him in order to make this work.  That you need to wipe the slate clean.  Your resulting lack of trust is then blamed on your own affair - how you cannot forgive yourself, so you've decided to not forgive and forget his actions, either.  That you owe him what he has given your momentary mistake - to stop bringing any past wrongdoings, or trying to untangle the confusing actions he has committed.

When you admit that you are staying in the marriage out of obligation and wish to now end the relationship, you are told that you have a cold heart.  When questioned how you see the logistics of a divorce playing out, you are then called selfish; if YOU want to end the relationship, why do you assume that YOU get to stay in the cushy environment (of your own home, with which to raise the children in).

Bec, I agree with Rob (above); you are going to HIS therapist.  We don't know how someone who is supposed to be helping the TWO of you navigate the relationship healthfully is on one person's side.  But it honestly doesn't matter.  The issue here is that if you choose to leave the therapist because of this, he will see it as you just not wanting to go to a therapist that says things that you don't agree with.  The bottom line is that if you have lost all trust and don't feel that he can or will honestly admit to his issues and work on them, then there is no reason to stay.  He has shown you time and time again - through multiple actions - that you don't matter to him except where it benefits him that you stay.  You have NO obligation to convince a counselor of ANY of this.  You have every right to leave at this point.  You do not need him or the counselor to agree with you.  This is YOUR life - and because of his actions and lack of honesty, it's all fucked up.  There is no hope here.

You have every right to tell him that you are done - with counseling - and with him.  And that you aren't going back to a place where it's all about blame rather than figuring out and fixing.  You hold no obligation to go to counseling because you've made your decision - and that's not to continue the relationship.

He WILL love bomb you.  AND guilt you.  And turn this around to being all about YOUR actions.  Whatever!  You know the truth.  You know how continuing on in this manner of confusion and distrust isn't bringing you happiness.  You have every right to make decisions about your OWN life without having buy-in from the people who are hurting you.  You see clearly, and you're done.  Refuse to be bullied any longer.

Hoping I helped in some manner -

Kel
 

Last edited by Kel (May 18, 2017 10:37 am)

I personally believe that once you see evidence of a man searching out other men and conversing with them, sending pics of themselves or asking for a few, they've done the deed.  WHY do I think that?  Well,... it's simple math, really:
1.  Men don't do things they don't want to do. I wish like hell that women would learn this lesson already.  If he's begging to see you naked, it's because he wants to see you naked.  If he's begging to see another man naked, it's because he.wants.to.see.that.man.naked.  NOT because he's..... curious. If he's shopping for a car, he'll buy one if he a) finds the right car, and b) has the availability to do so.  If he's shopping for a sexual experience, he will snap at the opportunity once he finds a match for what he wants, and he has the opportunity.

2.  Think about the male/female dynamic in a typical dating experience.  Man wants sex (even if does want a relationship).  Woman wants to hold off - even if for no other reason than she doesn't want to look like a tramp.  Man pushes, or at least looks for the door to crack open.  If he desires her and he feels she's sending out signals that she's open to a little pressure, the he's going to push the envelope.  Now, men.... PLEASE don't seed this as me trying to make men look bad.  And it's not what happens with every man, in every situation.  But as a generality, this is how it works.  It's just how males are generally wired.  It's simply testosterone.  I've read stories of trans men who used to be female, and once they started getting on testosterone injections, suddenly felt MUCH more aggressive in general, and preoccupied with sex.  The only difference was that testosterone.  It's chemistry.  Men step into the female's space, she either rebuffs him or lets him come a bit closer.  He will follow that opportunity alllll the way to the golden gates.

Now.... when two men are together, there is literally NO ONE to do the coy pushing back, "please behave!" putting-on-the-brakes thing.  There are two people wired for aggressively moving toward the desired outcome - orgasm.  Hell, they don't even have to worry about the stuff that the typical woman wants from a progressing sexual encounter - feeling safe, feeling beautiful and confident, being in the right mental space to be able to let go, etc.  There's no warm-up needed like with the typical female's body.  There is no need for foreplay except where desired.  It's straight to the main course.  It's why so many sexual encounters happen in forest preserves and bathrooms.  Oh look - a willing partner!  BAM!

It's a well-known fact that a lot of gay relationship go through all the steps in RAPID fashion.  From introduction to sex to relationship to breaking up - all in record time.  While there may be one partner who plays more of the female role in their relationship, there are still two men wired with male hormones and tendencies.  Conversely, lesbian relationships tend to move at a snail's pace, comparatively.

My point here is that if your man is shopping for something, and has the opportunity to progress to the end goal, HE WILL DO SO.  He would NOT be shopping otherwise.  Men do not window shop.  They may look around to assess the market a bit and undrstand exactly what they want.  But once they know, they will hone in on it and stalk it.  They.are.hunters.  They are not like women - gatherers.  Gatherers look for the opportunity - see if they can stumble across it, and see if there's a good, ripe plant for harvesting.  If not, she'll just keep moving.  Men don't..... stumble around.  They HUNT.  They set OUT knowing what they're looking for.  They don't leave the hut being like, "I could catch a squirrel or a fish or a buffalo - whatever."  HELL no - they set OUT hunting buffalo.  They go to where the buffalo lives.  They look for prints.  They sniff the ground.  They listen for hooves.  They get up to high ground for a better vantage point.  They dress so the animal can't see them.  They make false calls to the animal.  They are stalking this thing.  If the opportunity at all presents itself, they will bring that freaking buffalo home.  If not, they might bring a squirrel just to hold the tribe over until they can get a buffalo.  But they are not done buffalo hunting.  They want that buffalo.

If your man is out there looking for something - hunting it - stalking it, then you're likely not catching him on his first hunt.   He'd be VERY careful that first time.  He begins to get more comfortable once he's gotten to do what he wants several times and you're none the wiser.  You are seeing an experienced hunter once you find the evidence.  They will TELL you it's their first time, or that they haven't actually acted on this.... curiosity.  But that's horseshit.  They can't tell you they've already crossed that line.  They'll make it look like they haven't gotten that far yet, so you think you can pull him back from the edge of the cliff.  What you don't know is that he's already got a camp set up at the bottom of the cliff.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (May 18, 2017 3:31 pm)

Deleted

Last edited by Duped (November 11, 2019 2:51 pm)

Duped -

Are you saying that your ex did have STD's?

Kel