"..You only get one life. Don't waste it on this batshit crazy, impossible scenario.."

Ah another keeper quote by Kel.    

As I look at this now from the other side or out of the closet... it amazes me how much I put up with...how I so wanted things to be true that were just not.. ..ie that my ex loved me deep down or that she was not gay and cheating on me....  It's called "cognitive dissonance" ...     I could feel physically here rejection of me and shift of absolute loyality to here girlfriend.    I had absolute proof of it all.     It was then that learned acceptance.     I can see how if , one has even a shred of doubt,  the dissonance creeps back and we so want to think there is a chance for the marriage to be saved..  ie.. if we just go to counseling.., if  I just do this or that..   and meanwhile our spouse is not doing anything but telling us the problem is us.

It is not us.  

It takes so much strength and courage to stand up and say for yourself  "no I will not".   I think what Kel is saying ,that I get now, is it matters little whether your spouse wants the marriage or not....if they are hurting you.   We are human..we are not Gods or immortals.   at any point we have the right to stand up to our spouse, no matter how much we love them, and say NO..I will not be treated like this..you hurting me over and over.
 

One more little quip to add onto the above.  You all know I'm remarried now, and very happily so.  My family didn't want to accept him at first.  Because that would be like admitting that they'd been wrong about my first husband or something.  And he was also divorced.  AND he was.... BLACK.  (I'm white.  My kids are mixed white and Latina.)  My mother had told me eons ago that black men always cheat.  My dad had said that they aren't hard workers.  My two younger brothers warned me that I had better NEVER bring a black boy home.  (I remember being 22 and being like, "I'm sorry.... did someone tell you that your opinion mattered here???  Fuck off.") One of my brothers had met my then boyfriend, and was decent to him.  The other brother - who was always more prejudice - threw a f'ing FIT when he found out my bf was black.  My other brother's fiancee had to be like, "HEY! NO!  You do NOT get to act like an ass around a man who is good to your sister and making her happy.  If you act that way you'll have ME to deal with!"

Here was a man who'd held a job at the same Corporate America company for 20 years when I met him.  Dang it - can't tell her that he can't hold a job!  He's HUGE, though. Surely he'll hurt her.  He won't like her smart mouth and feisty independence.  Surely the children will be scared of him.  Surely a mixed color family will be immensely difficult for us all to navigate.  Surely this man won't be a father to the kids so much as a man that I'm putting before my kids.  But nevertheless, my man persisted.  He told them that their daughter (me!) was wonderful, amazing, and fantastic.  The most loving person he'd ever met.  And do you know what they said???  NOTHING.  They didn't smile or say thank you, or agree.  So he showed them that he loved me.  He showed them that he respected me by respecting THEM.  He'd go over there and shovel their walk without ever even letting them know.  They'd see him out there, shoveling in a freaking snow storm.  He'd call my mom on her birthday.  He'd shoo her away from doing dishes after a holiday dinner.  He'd ask my dad if he needed help cleaning out the gutters.  He'd text him if he had a question about something he knew my dad would love being an expert on.  He dropped what he was doing to go push my dad's truck out of snow in the alley.  He went and picked up my nieces from school when my sister's car broke down.  Took those two little ones to my mom's house for her to sit, and then went back got my sister's car towed and then swung by my parents' to get the girls and take them all back home.  He fawned over my brother's new truck - what's under the hood, man?  He made sure everyone had what they needed.  He made sure he was last.  He was strong but humble.  He tried so hard when he thought he never had a chance.

And NOW?  Now that he's been my backbone through my oldest son's mental illness and abuse? Now that he's bought me a newer/safer vehicle, and a home?  Well....  NOW it's as if they never acted any other way but in love with him.  It was hard-fought, and this man did it.  Because they didn't want to have to confront their belief system and admit that maybe.... MAYBE they were wrong to blanket an entire color of people with stereotypes.  And maybe they were wrong to keep wanting ME to change my personality in order to be more acceptable to traditional men.  Maybe they were wrong about me not knowing what was best for me.

NOW they love this man more than they love me.  And I'm fine with that.  Now my brothers slap him on the back and say, "Heeey, brother!"  NOW my dad texts him jokes and posts stuff on his Facebook wall that he'll enjoy.  NOW my mom is the first one to line up for one of my husband's kisses on the cheek.  Now it's as if my old life never happened.  As if he's always been here with me.  As if they gave him their blessing from the very beginning.  My sister-in-law tells me that my brother (her husband) says that he's never seen me this happy.  That he didn't ever know me this way before.  He didn't realize how happy I could be, because he'd never seen it before.  NONE of them would EVER want me to go back to my ex.  If I'd have listened to them, I'd still be miserable.  And for what???  So THEY could be happy with me not divorcing???  Turns out that once they got over their hang-ups about me getting divorced, and saw that I was happy and well-loved, they no longer cared about any of that old stuff.  NOW they get that if their family is treated well and happy, that's all that matters.

Kel
 

Bec,

I totally get what where you're coming from.  I was so conflicted between all my choices.  I didn't want to be another person to "give up" on my ex.  He'd been through SO much trauma as a child - being shot, watching his brothers die in front of him, being given up for adoption.  Then being repeatedly raped.  He was given back by his first adoptive family, too.  His eventual adoptive mother gave him a place front and center in her life, only to give that to a prison inmate once he moved out of the house to go to college.  HOW could I DO this to this man?  HOW could I add to the long list of people who had left him / given him away?

How was I going to figure out navigating the divorce when he was in school full time, his mom lived with us, and she was sick with cancer?  How was I going to be able to support my children - financially and emotionally - after the divorce?  I am an empath of sorts, too.  I had one hell of a time watching all this unfold from what I thought was MY selfish need to want more for myself.  There were no bruises, and he was a decent enough man.  How much can one woman want???  Was I expecting my marriage to make me happy?  People for millennia had learned to love each other and have successful marriages with people they'd never even met before their wedding day.  HOW can I have the world on a platter and still want more?

The truth is, I just kept chickening out.  Stuffing it all down like more batting being crammed into a pillow.  I, like the pillow, got tighter and tighter, my seams straining.  But I'd always been able to shove more batting in.  I would continue to do so.  This pillow must have endless capability to accept more.  It must be growing to accept more.  Only.... it wasn't.  And then one day, it just... burst.  I walked past him in the hallway and out popped, "I can't do this anymore."  I had no intention to say it - it was almost like I was hearing my voice say the words.  Aw, CRAP.  Now I've done it.  There was a moment in time where those words hung suspended in the air.  When I could have taken them back and said that that sentence was about not getting enough sleep.  Or about constantly cleaning up after the kids.  But when he said, "Do what any more?", I said, "THIS.  This.... marriage.  I can't do it anymore."  And then it was like the cork had popped out of a bottle of champagne.  Not that it was celebratory - lol.  But it came flying off with force, and behind it was a force that blew things all over the place.  I didn't have answers - only my proclamation that I couldn't do it any more.  And by that, I meant that I didn't want to go on trying any longer.  I was..... done.  I wasn't making a play for counseling (we'd already been numerous times), or for him to try harder, or for us to connect better.  I'd done all that.  I was done now.  It was over.

He fought it.  Suddenly he realized that all my warnings about things needing to change or I would leave were..... TRUE.  He never though it'd come to that.  I warned him, but he didn't listen.  He wanted to go to counseling (which I agreed to - but only because I wanted him to see that this was futile.  He just didn't know that.)  It was hard - how do you go to counseling and not... try to make the marriage work?  But I remained quiet - very unlike myself.  I let the counselor ask questions and come to conclusions.  He got there fairly quickly.  He figured out that our intimacy couldn't be improved.  That the problem wasn't necessarily coming from the marriage being bad.  It was its own entity, and he thought he needed to see my ex in private counseling to work out his intimacy issues.  That's where my ex came to be able to accept that he was gay.

Still though - in the days after my ex realized that I was truly going to walk away, he tried Sooooo hard.  He was so desperate that it was pathetic, quite frankly.  After all those years of not being seen - of asking to be complimented occasionally and being told that he just COULDN'T, here he was - doing just that.  He was cooking dinner, he was cleaning, he was greeting me at the door every night when I came home from work.  He was going upstairs with me to undress me and give me back rubs.  I couldn't even get a back rub before through three freaking pregnancies.  NOW you want to do for me - when YOU stand to lose something?  I called bullshit after two days.  "I KNOW you're trying.  But it's just pissing me off.  Allll this time I was unhappy and begging you to give something to me, you wouldn't.  Now that YOU stand to lose something, NOW you're willing to work on it?  It's insulting, frankly.  That the only time you are willing to do the work is for your OWN gain.  You can stop it.  It's not going to work.  It's too little, too late.  You waited too long, and you've shown your true colors more this way than you did before."

It got worse once he realized there was nothing he could do to save the marriage.  I'm sure it was very frustrating for him to be in that position.  But he made that bed, and now he had to lie in it.  I felt bad that he was sad, but this was HIS doing.  He was learning the hard way that he hadn't put in the work when it was necessary.  He'd killed the marriage, and it couldn't be resuscitated.  He was coming to this realization all at once.  I'd felt it all along every day for a decade and a half.  I couldn't bring myself to feel sorry for him.

I understand the paying thing, too.  But it turns out that the strength resides in you already.  Rob often says to "gather strength".  And I get that.  I feel like it means that you're building up steam to go up that hill.  But you don't "acquire" strength.  It's always right there inside of you - ALL of it that you'll ever need.  God has already given you that - created you with all that you'll need.  Strength doesn't make itself known ahead of time.  It's kind of a crazy thing.  Neither does faith.  It doesn't show itself until you're actively using it.  Courage is about perseverance, not bravery.  Be courageous despite the fear.  You will never feel your strength ahead of time - you will see it once after the battle has been fought.  People who are told they are strong are told that because they did the hard thing - not because they are stronger than others.  People can see their strength because of what they've come out on the other side of.  You never think someone is strong without proof - you can't see it until then.

Remember that scene from the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where he is at a place where he knows he needs to step out on faith onto that invisible bridge?  Here's the clip if you haven't seen if:  https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iry-fullyhosted_003&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_003&hspart=iry&p=raiders+of+the+lost+ark+stepping+out+on+invisible.#id=1&vid=b117da43e681da1c7701ac050c843647&action=view

It's JUST.LIKE.THAT.  It's THERE.  Your strength is there.  You just need to trust that it's there and step out onto the invisible ledge.  I'm not being metaphorical here.  This is truly how it works.  I'm living proof.  Millions of us are living proof.  We are not stronger than you - we just know our strength because we held our noses an jumped.  That's the ONLY difference.

Kel



 

OMG Kel.  Quit your job and become a therapist - NOW!!  The world needs you.  I'm so not kidding.  If you don't have time to sign up for a psychology degree then see about being what people are starting to call a Life Coach.  For reals.

Bec - as I'm reading through this whole thread I wanted to jump in and let you know that my story played out just like yours.  When I found the third counselor (the first two were complete crap) I told her about my story, the gay porn, the denying, the lying about it, the hiding it, saying he could stop, the didos, the naked pics....you get the idea.  She "specialized" in gay/lesbian issues.  She flat out told me, I'm sorry but I think my role here is going to be to help him come out.  I was like FINALLY, yes, thank you, that's all I want is a damn admission so I can move on with my life instead of questioning whether I'm doing the right thing by giving up on someone who says he loves me so much.  So she met with him and by the time I see her again the entire scenario had changed to the same shit:  he's just curious and it probably stems back from when he was 10 and a neighbor boy made him give him a blow job so your choice is either to leave or decide that you're ok with it.  And if you're ok with it maybe just give him alone time to LOOK AT GAY PORN.  Lady, you have got to be shitting me.  You see, this whole neighbor kid molestation thing was a very recent development.  Never in the previous years of dealing with the gay stuff had he ever mentioned a mean neighbor boy until one of the times he was cornered with more porn.  Now - I'm not going to say it didn't happen because if that had happened to me I highly doubt I'd publicize it, even to my spouse, unless there were some reason it came up.  However, I also found the admission to be very well timed.  So, here I was back in the same place I had been years prior.  I feel like it's the same place you're in and that's that it all falls on you.  Your shoulders, your decision, why are you doing this to us.  Am I close? 

And, (like Kel was saying) it's hard to tell people, especially your family that you don't need an excuse as to why you're divorcing other than THIS IS NOT what I signed up for.  Mine had a great job, was great looking, sweet, nice, not abusive, solid work history, great saver, oh and one added part that is unlike most....he liked to have sex.  So what the hell was I complaining about, right?  Except that something was always lacking that I couldn't put my finger on.  And...How do you tell your 88 year old parents, uh, everything seems perfect on paper but he likes to whack off to gay porn and order dildos.  Well, I did just that. 

It just came flying out of my mouth one day when I wasn't even planning it.  I remember I was walking to my car after work and I was talking to my Mom and she mentioned coming over and I said something along the lines of: I don't think that's going to be possible...I'm filing for divorce because he likes to look at pictures of naked men and I can't take it anymore.  Wait, what?  Who said that?  Ohhhh shit.  That was me.  Yep, what flew out of my mouth next was a description of a 7 inch long dildo that had arrived at my house, complete with a strap on.  Did I mention she's 88? 

But honestly when I dug deeper, back through all the years, you start to notice things, patterns that let me know he just wasn't that in to me.  Not once did he ever come up to me when we were getting ready to go somewhere (after it took me an hour to get ready) and say wow, you look great.  I mean if you honestly don't think it then I agree, don't say it.  But you'd think maybe once a year he might think that?  Maybe?  One time before a Christmas party I complimented him on how great he looked because I honestly thought so and he said "thanks" and walked away.  I remember standing there in my little black dress with my hair all perfectly done up and thinking, wow, he sucks.  I have news for people - if when your spouse gets all dressed up, you don't think they hung the moon, you're with the wrong person.  I told him once: you never compliment me, to which he replied:  maybe you need too many compliments.  uhhh, wrong. Then he says wait, that's not true, I compliment you, one time when you walked out wearing a tight tshirt I said: hey big boobs.  NEWSFLASH, they aren't big.  And in what world is that a compliment?  nimrod

So - here you are, with a counselor pushing you to try harder with a husband where you know something is not right.  How much longer can you try?  How much of your life have you already tried?  And it has nothing to do with "the devil".  You have doubt because deep down you know something isn't right.  It's called intuition, not the devil.  It's unfortunate but it all comes down to you.  That's what I had the hardest time with.  It's not fair that it's up to us to decide our future with limited and strange facts.  We didn't choose to be in this situation and yet it falls 100% on us to make the final decision.  It's ok to make that decision. 

Yeah...my ex would never admit any fault and she did not  want the marriage...so it was pointless to go to counseling with her.  I went for myself.


But the marriage counseling stories we get on the forum here all sound bad?  It's like they lock you in the room with a husband that is beating you and then give validity to him hurting you because he wants to stay married.  Like its ok.  And if they rightly tell him it's not ok for hitting you he still will not own it.  I would like to hear of marriage counseling that worked somwhow?  I think JK'S husband did owe up to it in counseling ?  But the therapists  do not have to live it and only we can decide if trust can be rebuilt or our spouse can ever really stop hurting us.  Its a horrible place to be.