lily wrote:

I am interested in the subject of bisexuality.  You say it's very rare.  But I think it might be impossible in terms of the way we're built - sexual attraction - it just seems so basic and stable.   I can't imagine it happening both ways - wouldn't it be like having another pair of eyes in the back of your head?  I don't think anyone has been born like that. 

Clearly there are plenty of people who have os mating behaviours that override their ssa.  My ex being one of them.

And I can imagine someone wanting to have sex for the sex with both men and women because it's irrespective of who they are.    

But after reading your last post I am wondering if are you saying you've had an affectionate sexual bond with someone who is literally attracted both directions?  hope you don't mind me asking.  

Yes. I have meet about three guys who I had a sexual bond with who claimed to be bi. One of them was a bisexual bad boy. He wasn't that attracted to me and he showed me his porn collection. It was almost all women. In his case I think he would not be very likely to cheat with a guy. There just didn't seem to be much homosexual attraction there. It was more he did a guy because he could.

The second I couldn't tell if he was a homophobic gay guy or a bi guy, He claimed to be bi. He was affectionate and a great kisser but he wanted to have a permeant guy to the side. He claimed he liked sex with women and wanted a wife or girlfriend but still need a guy. 

The last was a married guy(didn't know at the time) and shall we say having the other guy watch and like straight porn while in bed with a guy can be very weird(What does he see in her?).

I think sexual attraction is built in and probably pretty stable, but it isn't tuned the same way in everyone. Most gay guys have some attraction to women just not strong or often. I personally have some attraction but no where near as often or as intense as with a guy. Basically if you doubled the attraction to women and halved it to men, you wouldn't get a straight guy. You would get someone who is bisexual.

For me swearing off women for life would be easier than swearing off chocolate and other rich items for lint. I mean it is easy not to do things you are not tempted to do.  Asking me never to think, act or do anything with a guy for life would be orders of magnitude harder. 

As for mating behavior well that can vary. Some guys have enough attraction to the women or just to their wife/girlfriend to do it. Other guys have to think about men in order to perform. I have never heard a gay guy who was able to perform with a women claim they didn't like it.

Another issue can be the lack of affection and desire from a gay guy. For a gay guy it is sort of I think she likes holding hands and since I like her I will hold her hand rather than I want to do so. There isn't that inborn desire to cuddle, be close with and so on. 

The problem from a gay point of view would be the constant sexual and sometimes even emotional attraction to men such that having a wife would likely not be enough for most gay guys.  For bi guys there would be temptation from both men and women outside of the relationship. For gay men it would be just men.

Straight and bi guys just have more attraction to women in general where as with gay guys, it tends to be very few women and not as strong. Trust me you know you are gay when a woman can walk on to a factory floor of men and  nearly bring production to an halt and you are standing there wondering what happened? Why did everything stop? Or when Beyoncé can wow rooms of men across the nation at the super bowl and you feel nothing. 


 

lily wrote:

Hi Diff, thanks for your reply.  It's interesting and I do accept everything you say.  If you don't mind though, I will go through it putting my spin on things -

boyfriend A:  look at my porn collection of women, don't you dare think I'm gay just because I'm f*cking you.

He wasn't at all homophobic or even a tough guy. Just a bad boy who is a bit mischievous and risk taking. He didn't care all all what I though about him and wanted to show me off to his friends. I at the time was closeted and so that kind of tripped my limits. Along with not that much attraction to me and from the porn collection men in general. I have seen some MF porn with gay men but they like it because the guy looks masculine. Never saw the parade of women with gay guys. 
 

boyfriend B:  nicer than A but a classic gay in denial - I am going to have the wife and family and I want a boyfriend on the side.

That indeed was possible. He was a bit homophobic. 

boyfriend C:  looks like he will go to any lengths to convince you he's not gay.

Nope,  more like would do anything that wouldn't fight back too much. He didn't care about being straight. 

Now in my travels I have meet a few closeted husbands(never seduced one--they were looking to cheat or it was a social situation ) or ex-husbands but they were doing things to get guys and guys only.  Most of the ones I meet never claimed to be BI and they just were bad choices for other reasons. 

I do think there are plenty of people whose ideal lifestyle is to be married with children and a steady same sex romance on the side.  It's a bit like the husband who has his perfect wife and a mistress on the side that he can enact his sexual fantasies with - everyone is getting short-changed.

This is true. Some guys do want the wife and kid for normalcy but they also want the same sex partner for both sexual and sometimes even emotional intimacy. Others try to ignore the same sex attraction but it tends to be something rather hard to ignore and lose will as soon as temptation shows up. 

Monogamy isn't a nice idea, I see it as a real thing, for all the intricacies and behaviours we are emotionally wired for it.  Or I guess for some people they just aren't.  

And at heart I see sexual attraction the same way too, either same sex or the other one.   Like a compass pointing north, it doesn't point both ways.  

 
For gay guys the compass that was supposed to point north points south. Which is confusing enough.  Also like real compasses there is a bit of magnetic deviation to throw things off(i.e. the odd ball, rare and weak attraction to women). The trouble comes when a gay guy attempts to take a woman along for the ride. Instead of sailing towards monogamous heterosexual bliss he maybe steering towards a rocky reef......

Even if a gay guy doesn't cheat, I don't think that being married to one would be easy. 
 

lily, I can only speak from my own experience -- and my observations may be true of men, but I don't actually know about how it works for women.

My XH would have described himself as "bi".  I think he believed his own BS.  Here's where I think the truth is: when he was much younger, he was able to perform sex with women.  I think he decided that meant he was bi.  But, he never actually seemed to want sex with me (he was in his very early 30's when we started dating).  At the time, I put it down to a weak libido, job stress, and alcoholism.

We had sex for the last time right after my daughter was born, but it just didn't work.  That was in about 1996.  He never tried again, but I discovered his cheating in 2017, and I now understand it was going on throughout the entire duration of the marriage.  So for the next two decades, his "male" attraction was so powerful he had to put his marriage and family -- and even his life -- at risk for it.  His "female" attraction was so nonexistent he wouldn't go near me.

When I confronted him after 24 years of marriage (22 of which I had mistakenly bellieved were sexless), he responded "I have always known that I was a bisexual."

So for my money: maybe there are guys who are capable of performing with both sexes, but I don't think they are attracted to both sexes equally.  And, just because you hit age 21 and you're legally an adult it doesn't mean you stop growing.  So I think through his life he grew more and more dependent on gay sex and less and less able to fake it with a woman.

Hi Walk, yes very similar to my ex. 

As a young man, from before he met me, he had boyfriends all the way, he always wanted sex with men, and he'd have a girlfriend on his arm but not in his heart.  Or his loins, he insisted he wanted an intimate relationship with me but he was strangely reluctant when it came to it.  I have some painful and confused memories of feeling rejected in bed.  

It was all about having a great closet for him - that is what he loves.  He wants the girl on his arm to show off with.  He wants to have sex with men, but then he dumps them when they form a romantic attachment with him - he loves his closet more. 

Same thing of sexual performance dwindling away to just not possible by his 40's.

So, the timing is the same as it is for having a family.  I think this is how come they are able to have sex with a woman, regardless of whether they actually want to have children or not, they are physically capable.

But the feeling of repulsion due to their sexual orientation is still there, just hidden from view.  What they are looking at - a female - is not what they want.  What we were looking at - a male - appeared to be what we wanted.

Diff, I only know of it as mothers pretending it is the father who is gay, not them.  But when I thought about it it just seemed likely it would be a common thing.  The interesting thing is that knowing the truth of their parentage is so much more comfortable for the child.  More stable and happy making if you know what I mean.

Thinking about it yesterday, I agree about the farm life and familiarity thing - but I'm wondering if the key to farmer Joe's decision isn't that she has managed to garner his loyalty so that he ignores the realities of communication issues and lack of feelings v attraction and feelings for the other girl in favour of following his heart.

lily wrote:

 It was all about having a great closet for him - that is what he loves.  He wants the girl on his arm to show off with.  He wants to have sex with men, but then he dumps them when they form a romantic attachment with him - he loves his closet more. 

Some guys are like that. Romantic attachments mean being out in public with the person and that is a lot scarier than just a roll in the hay.

Same thing of sexual performance dwindling away to just not possible by his 40's.

So, the timing is the same as it is for having a family.  I think this is how come they are able to have sex with a woman, regardless of whether they actually want to have children or not, they are physically capable.

Could be but some guys who want a family stop as soon as the kid or kids are born. 

Diff, I only know of it as mothers pretending it is the father who is gay, not them.  But when I thought about it it just seemed likely it would be a common thing.  The interesting thing is that knowing the truth of their parentage is so much more comfortable for the child.  More stable and happy making if you know what I mean.

Yes. I can see that. A kid would be pretty confused by that. 

Thinking about it yesterday, I agree about the farm life and familiarity thing - but I'm wondering if the key to farmer Joe's decision isn't that she has managed to garner his loyalty so that he ignores the realities of communication issues and lack of feelings v attraction and feelings for the other girl in favour of following his heart.

Could be. In addition straight guys usually don't know what they are getting into when it comes to lesbians.  i.e. If she is a lesbian there is more than just a communication issue. That plus I figure he is probably attracted to her and she was willing to date him therefore it is just a matter of working through the rest,  (From his point of view).  From yours it would be more like time to get the heck out of dodge......