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February 13, 2023 5:30 pm  #1


Non Sexual Red Flags Question

First time posting but have been reading. I appreciate the stories shared here it has helped significantly. Wife wondering if husband is bisexual or gay in denial. 

My question is around non-sexual red flags and to see if anyone has relatable experiences (with sexual ones listed below):
- relationship issues began around a complete lack of emotional support. There seems to be a genuine disinterest in me on a personal level. Seemed narcissistic and we are seeking therapy around this. but i find it completely odd someone would have to learn how to seem genuinely engaged. 
- Ignores a lot of texts / calls when at work.  Even when there is an emergency. 
- Lies a LOT for no understandable reason. So much of my life the last few years has been a lie. 
- spends a lot of time away from home to work even when i ask for help. Was not coming home essentially 7 days a week until bed time etc.. until i threatened to have us separate. 
- definitely have had issues where he's supposed to be home and not sure where he is. they are not usually long amounts of time (maybe 30-40 minutes) but no explanation thats rationally explains his disappearance. 

Sexual issues
- Never had a lot of issues around him wanting sex with me but over the last year I have been more distant, just feeling something is off. 

- I have recently discovered text messages from several male friends (Whom i know) that contain very explicit sexual banter. He is brushing it off as male jokes. Has anyone had experience with this?

- When I attempted to have a conversation about boundaries (looking to insert some LOL) he has hinted things over the years that he would be ok with me 'exploring' and mentioned me having a sexual encounter with another man that he could watch. I was in no way proposing this but instead saying i wanted more boundaries and this has come up a few times. 

- During the same boundaries talks, says he doesn't feel jealousy towards me and other people and therefore doesn't feel there need to be boundaries. 

While definitely interested in input on the sexual stuff curious about hearing more of the signs that were maybe not only sex related? My first concerns were around a complete emotional disconnect that seems abnormal for a relationship... then i found the texts ....

 

 

February 14, 2023 11:24 am  #2


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

Hello roxie,

Sorry this is happening to you.

IMO, your h doesn't sound straight. I'm a woman and don't have sexual banter with female friends.  I'd assume your h has a sexual interest in these men since he's flirting.

My late GIDXH started out kind and caring during our courtship. He did a 180 by acting like your h, uncaring and extremely self-centered.  I felt like a mom or caregiver to a rebellious teen.  There to give support, money and housekeeping. Lied to and ridiculed when I challenged him. Am sympathetic about being in the closet. He knew I would support a coming out and end of our marriage. He didn't want it. Some people love getting goodies for little effort. This character defect has nothing to do with sexual preference.

You were able to set boundaries with his not coming home at night.  I'd suggest setting boundaries with your actions. No need for permission. This is your right as a human being. Don't tell him. Actions speak louder than words. He'll manipulate you into not standing up for yourself if you tell him. He knows he can. He enjoys his freewheeling ways.

I'd suggest changing the focus of therapy onto only you. You can't control or change him.

Hoping things get better for you.


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

February 15, 2023 4:41 pm  #3


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

I’m a straight man, currently legally married to my lesbian wife. These are my opinions:

The non-sexual things you ask about (work, general disinterest, etc) could be for any reason. Lack of emotional depth or connection within himself, personality disorder, response to childhood trauma, etc. None of those say anything to me about his sexuality on their own.

Not being jealous means he’s not bonded to you. There isn’t much connection to speak of, you’re his wife but it’s more like a job, a role you’re filing. The normal, even minimally emotionally available man is naturally protective and defensive over his wife. Nothing crazy but being okay with you sleeping with another man? Clearly lack of connection to you.

Straight men generally do not engage in sexually explicit banter directed toward each other. Being critical or insulting of each other? Yes. Hyping each other up some? Sure. If his “friends” and him are talking about doing sexual things to each other or sexualizing eachother, they aren’t straight. Period.

If a woman is even minimally attractive and good to him (especially if he also loves her), he’s going to want to have sex with her. Barring some physical abnormality, hormonal issue, mental illness or its medication, or indoctrination or beliefs from childhood that have shut him down. It can be complicated but it really sounds like he’s not straight and is focused on his desire for men.

For examples of some of those caveats, read Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel.

 

October 6, 2023 6:29 am  #4


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

Hi Roxie,
Straight male here. The sexual banter with his male friends is the only item from your list that strikes me as a potential red flag that he is gay. If it explicitly states acts they will do to one another with a serious or romantic intonation, it might be real. But, there is also some chance of locker-room talk: men can use sexual references as a way to express dominance over one another ("I'm gonna shove my rod up your ass if you don't get over here to watch the game.") without any serious intent or desire to do it.
Gay or not, I'm pretty certain you have relationship issues. This reply is several months after your first post, so there is probably more development to your story. Hope all is going well.

 

January 10, 2024 1:44 pm  #5


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

Thank you for posting. Both of us have been in separate therapy and getting along and sharing life responsibilities has been better. However I just want to acknowledge I do appreciate the posts and a lot of it does make sense. Therapy has suggested the lack of a bond / emotional connection could definitely stem from mild elements of a personality disorder/childhood trauma etc.. But in terms of is he gay....

Let me start from the beginning. My initial post was kind of in response to something that had happened over time. He had a male friend who he involved in every aspect of our life. He did spend a lot of time with this guy, almost every single day, away from me so I cannot vouch for what occurred. They definitely built an emotional bond but I never witnessed any sexual activity. I grew up in the city and am very open etc.. sometimes i would get vibes off this male friend that he acted homophobic. He was uncomfortable about any conversations around men having sex with men. Near the end of this friendship I would find sexual things in his texts to my spouse. One time he said he was putting a photo of my husband in his 'spank bank' and a few other things. This situation was more of what I was feeling at the time in regards to the non-sexual stuff. They really seemed to build this bond that him and I dont have at all. 

However, the friendship ended with this guy stealing from us. Once we figured this out and he was asked to leave us alone he stalked my spouse for almost a year!! He was sending texts stating they were soulmates and stuff along those lines. It actually got to the point where I thought I would have to call the cops. He was contacting everyone we knew begging them to speak to my spouse to get him to become his friend again. 

Once all this came to a head I found my spouse having this same sexual banter with a second friend!!! Hes know this guy for many years and they used to talk maybe every few months. During this time I checked our phone records and he was talking to this guy several times a week, while driving to work etc.. for hours at a time. 

The biggest thing for me is that I did in fact establish boundaries on these sexual messages by the time i found out about this second but am still seeing them. There is now a THIRD friend over the last 2 years that I know of. I am not snooping either its just what I find by mistake (went to plug my phone in and his was on charger and it pops up, or they show on his computer when im using it). I have confronted him and he just says - oh I dont know why X does that. I have not brought myself to snoop and quite frankly he is good at cleaning his data. 

The latest message was from the third male friend saying something along the lines of 'good morning my sexy'. They dont live in the same state so do not see each other in person. However I went away for a few days and one of the sexual messages I saw were of the same lines but they wanted to plan a video call when I was gone. I let the trip come and go to see if he would tell me about this call - if its just  a friend why not. Never did. I did eventually confront him and tell him i saw the messages and he just says they never had the call. 

To me he seems gay in denial and I guess am back on here trying to wrap my head around that. I have tried talking to him ensuring him I would never be mad. He got irate. While I do prefer men, i have had relationships with women myself before him and would be nothing but supportive. He just 100% denies it all and says the messages are nothing but jokes. 

With therapy hes been a lot better in many ways but I also just get this feeling all the time that a lot of the relationship side of things - being intimate, affectionate, actual interest in me etc.. is just something that is just not coming natural and maybe improving because of therapy and I have confronted him on above. 

 

     Thread Starter
 

January 10, 2024 10:48 pm  #6


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

roxie89 wrote:

However, the friendship ended with this guy stealing from us. Once we figured this out and he was asked to leave us alone he stalked my spouse for almost a year!! He was sending texts stating they were soulmates and stuff along those lines. It actually got to the point where I thought I would have to call the cops. He was contacting everyone we knew begging them to speak to my spouse to get him to become his friend again. 

Once all this came to a head I found my spouse having this same sexual banter with a second friend!!! Hes know this guy for many years and they used to talk maybe every few months. During this time I checked our phone records and he was talking to this guy several times a week, while driving to work etc.. for hours at a time. 

The biggest thing for me is that I did in fact establish boundaries on these sexual messages by the time i found out about this second but am still seeing them. There is now a THIRD friend over the last 2 years that I know of. I am not snooping either its just what I find by mistake (went to plug my phone in and his was on charger and it pops up, or they show on his computer when im using it). I have confronted him and he just says - oh I dont know why X does that. I have not brought myself to snoop and quite frankly he is good at cleaning his data. 

The latest message was from the third male friend saying something along the lines of 'good morning my sexy'. They dont live in the same state so do not see each other in person. However I went away for a few days and one of the sexual messages I saw were of the same lines but they wanted to plan a video call when I was gone. I let the trip come and go to see if he would tell me about this call - if its just  a friend why not. Never did. I did eventually confront him and tell him i saw the messages and he just says they never had the call. 

There is a pattern here. I think at the minimum that there was an emotional relationship going on here between these men and your husband. With gay there is the sexual attraction(i.e. want to rip his clothes off) but also the emotional one(want to spend time with, get lost in his eyes, he is so cool\perfect). Maybe it is just me but the only people I have ever greeted  like that are people who had a relationship with. As for the video call not taking place, somehow I don't believe him.  This sounds like there maybe some sort of long distance relationship going on or maybe just flirting.

The first guy(the one who stole) was most defiantly acting like a boyfriend after a break up. Homophobic unfortunately does not mean straight. Gay also explains the second guy. I suspect with the first guy(thief) unavailable he might have focused his attention elsewhere. The last one, why on earth would you want a video call unless you actually want to SEE the person? The only two things I can think of that would do it are an emotional attachment strong enough that you would want to see his face or missing sexual activity enough that you would want to see the other guy's body. With gay both are possible. 

Also the last part being initiate, affectionate and being intrested in you are things that can go along with gay.

Last edited by Diff I guess (January 10, 2024 10:49 pm)

 

January 11, 2024 8:07 am  #7


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

i appreciate the reply

there is a pattern here - literally the first words in my head when I saw the latest message.

To fill in some gaps and add more context - the first guy (thief) the homophobia at the time of the comment actually felt at the time to me a red flag that he was gay in denial. hard to explain because it was 2+ years ago but that was my first thought.

when i originally posted on feb of last year it was about 7 months into the thief stalking him and then i had just found these other messages from guy #2.

i definitely think there was an emotional relationship hence my original post at the time almost a year ago. i probably was having a harder time explaining it as it was happening.  During the time they were “friends” there was a huge disconnect from me. now this guy is gone and my spouse magically doesn’t act this way towards me anymore? i experienced a lot of being ignored, pushed away, lies, gaslighting… oh there is always gaslighting isn’t there.  we are in therapy but only individually and that has improved things a bit. im not confident i want to do couples therapy because as mentioned, there is clearly a pattern here that’s not likely to stop and he just lies to me or denies what i say here is reality. the lack of honesty and communication is a bigger issue than all the rest IMO.

so now guy #3 - to add more context. he’s never even met him before! it’s someone he’s met online through hobby interest. which obviously makes this even more strange. So if the facetime did or didn’t happen to my knowledge it would have been the first time they have even seen each other beyond text chatting.

so yeah… definitely a pattern.

     Thread Starter
 

January 11, 2024 2:33 pm  #8


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

Absolutely do NOT do couples therapy.

He will manipulate the process.

 

January 11, 2024 7:22 pm  #9


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

yeah i already see that happening from what i know about his individual therapy.

     Thread Starter
 

January 13, 2024 1:45 pm  #10


Re: Non Sexual Red Flags Question

my recommendation is to skip the couples therapy and get a therapist for yourself to help you address what you are feeling. Obviously he is getting something from time spent in these friendships but where are you getting positive feedback?

Wine, chocolate and Hallmark movies are not good answers.
 
 


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