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May 21, 2022 11:41 pm  #21


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

My husband never has been abusive but I he has done a lot of damage intended too or not.  And I think him being up in his own head about his own things did render him incapable of helping me or realizing he was making things worse.  

Yes, I absolutely blamed myself for his lack of interest in sex and ability to perform.   His big hobby revolves around a gym so in my mind he's around these beautiful skinny women (when in reality if was the other buff dudes I should have been worried about).  He is incredibly fit and a body many would kill for.  Why would he want me?  Weight gain from kids and bed rest.  Belly covered in surgical scars that run from my ribs to my pelvis from multiple open abdominal surgery. Scar tissue just everywhere.  Endometriosis.  A mental wreck with PTSD, Depression, and anxiety.  And it was his lack of interest in me that contributed to the body dysmorphia I have today.  Hell, I gave myself an eating disorder starving myself trying to loose weight.  And that I'm still messed up from because now by body refuses to let go of anything for fear I'll do that again.  So I know that particular demon well.

He never told me I was ugly, fat, or anything...but he also never gave me positive affirmations as well.  Which is something i still need desperately because of how my see myself.  An impact of all my surgeries is my belly will swell if I overdo it.  Like look 9 months pregnant swell.  If we are in public I am asked when I am due which hits the nerve of having to have a hysterectomy young and feeling awful.  And there are times where I can't get clothes on and he's come upon me sobbing in the closet surrounded by clothes I tried to get on, things that fit the day before, and just walked away to leave me crying.  He said it was because he could never say anything that would make me stop.  My mind it just affirmed all those terrible thoughts I had about myself and that he didn't want me....and deep down I was right.  He doesn't want me.  Something I am working through in therapy is an after for me because I can't see anyone wanting me now.  

After writing it all out I think one of his biggest faults is a outright lack of empathy.  Don't know if you all agree or feel the same way.  Is that a narcissist?  Hiding behind he didn't know what to do or say so he would do nothing.  He's not a nurturer or a caregiver at all, thank the lord for things like Door Dash because I can now better take care of myself and the kids when sick.  Nor does he understand what its like to have your body fail you on multiple levels every day.   Even worse what its like to nearly die.  

I too am curious about his mission days as well now.  He said he was having these thoughts 20 years ago and that was mission time.  His mission was pretty miserable for him in a difficult area with lots of end of their mission companions that were pretty much phoning it in.  

He's out with his new friends tonight and its weird.  I know its these kinds of things that will lead him to his someone new.  While I"m here with the kids.  We had a night of it, I'm trying to get new routines and things with just us especially since he seems to be ready to hit the ground running with his new life.  

 

May 22, 2022 12:18 am  #22


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Ag 🙂 I'd like to helicopter in, scoop you up and whisk you away to somewhere you felt safe, with trustworthy people who would take care of you

After I decided I no longer wanted my partner intimately I realized I actually didn't want him to see me naked ever again. He was never mean about my body but didn't realize what him wanting somebody other than me for sex would end up doing to my self esteem


KIA KAHA                       
 

May 22, 2022 7:06 am  #23


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

You were smart Kia.

 

May 22, 2022 12:11 pm  #24


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Agl03 wrote:

My husband never has been abusive but I he has done a lot of damage intended too or not.  And I think him being up in his own head about his own things did render him incapable of helping me or realizing he was making things worse.  

Yes, I absolutely blamed myself for his lack of interest in sex and ability to perform.   His big hobby revolves around a gym so in my mind he's around these beautiful skinny women (when in reality if was the other buff dudes I should have been worried about).  He is incredibly fit and a body many would kill for.  Why would he want me?  Weight gain from kids and bed rest.  Belly covered in surgical scars that run from my ribs to my pelvis from multiple open abdominal surgery. Scar tissue just everywhere.  Endometriosis.  A mental wreck with PTSD, Depression, and anxiety.  And it was his lack of interest in me that contributed to the body dysmorphia I have today.  Hell, I gave myself an eating disorder starving myself trying to loose weight.  And that I'm still messed up from because now by body refuses to let go of anything for fear I'll do that again.  So I know that particular demon well.

He never told me I was ugly, fat, or anything...but he also never gave me positive affirmations as well.  Which is something i still need desperately because of how my see myself.  An impact of all my surgeries is my belly will swell if I overdo it.  Like look 9 months pregnant swell.  If we are in public I am asked when I am due which hits the nerve of having to have a hysterectomy young and feeling awful.  And there are times where I can't get clothes on and he's come upon me sobbing in the closet surrounded by clothes I tried to get on, things that fit the day before, and just walked away to leave me crying.  He said it was because he could never say anything that would make me stop.  My mind it just affirmed all those terrible thoughts I had about myself and that he didn't want me....and deep down I was right.  He doesn't want me.  Something I am working through in therapy is an after for me because I can't see anyone wanting me now.  

After writing it all out I think one of his biggest faults is a outright lack of empathy.  Don't know if you all agree or feel the same way.  Is that a narcissist?  Hiding behind he didn't know what to do or say so he would do nothing.  He's not a nurturer or a caregiver at all, thank the lord for things like Door Dash because I can now better take care of myself and the kids when sick.  Nor does he understand what its like to have your body fail you on multiple levels every day.   Even worse what its like to nearly die.  

I too am curious about his mission days as well now.  He said he was having these thoughts 20 years ago and that was mission time.  His mission was pretty miserable for him in a difficult area with lots of end of their mission companions that were pretty much phoning it in.  

He's out with his new friends tonight and its weird.  I know its these kinds of things that will lead him to his someone new.  While I"m here with the kids.  We had a night of it, I'm trying to get new routines and things with just us especially since he seems to be ready to hit the ground running with his new life.  

I'm so sorry you've had so many physical trials and challenges. That must have made everything so much worse. You must be an extraordinarily strong woman to make it through all those hardships. 

Absolutely the lack of empathy is one of the hallmarks of narcissism. And narcissism exists on a spectrum, just like about any other human experience. One of my most horrible memories is when I was very young, prior to children. We'd been married about two years, all of it hell. My ex never felt the need to "honeymoon" me the way abusers do, I suspect because he knew I'd never leave him as long as I believed in the church. At any rate, after going off the pill (to try to lose the ten pounds he tortured me over - and when I did lose it, I was underweight and a bobble head and he still didn't desire me) I never had another period. I finally called my gyn after nine months (that was a funny phone conversation when I explained I hadn't had a period for nine months and my breasts were leaking a white liquid, and after a shocked silence, the nurse asked if it were possible I was pregnant... I laughed because at that point my waist measured 23 inches) and he referred me to an endocrinologist who sent me for an MRI. He didn't go with me - of course it would never have even occurred him to support me like that - and when I got home I collapsed on the bed weeping because I felt certain they'd seen something because of the questions they asked afterwards. I felt certain I had a tumor. (in fact, I did, on my pituitary gland, which turned out to be very small and benign requiring only medication, but I just heard "TUMOR" in my head) I told him what had happened and he just walked away, scoffing, "oh, you do not have a tumor". Later that night, I was still so upset and crying in bed and he had his back turned to me, as usual. I was desperate enough that I foolishly made myself vulnerable to him and asked him to comfort me. He said, in a glacial tone, "you have to learn to comfort yourself." And that was it. That was the last we ever spoke of my tumor. 

I've often wondered if my ex is really sociopathic, although there's little difference between that and malignant narcissism, which he absolutely has. At the end of our marriage, when he was desperately trying to stop me from divorcing him (two years after I'd left the church), he did try to honeymoon me. He admitted he'd been emotionally abusive of me throughout our marriage, and that he'd done the same thing to his first wife (the one who was smart enough to leave him after 15 months with no kids and left the country to flee him - the same one who he said cheated on him repeatedly with his friends, but yet he never had their sealing canceled, and once told me if she came back to church she'd be his first wife in the Celestial Kingdom and I'd be wife number two). I reminded him of all the times I told him how much he hurt me, how he was destroying the love I'd once had for him, and asked him if he had heard me, if he realized he was hurting me. He said yes, but in a way he couldn't describe, it didn't matter. It was like my feelings weren't real. He also once told me he didn't feel things at all. So yeah, I wonder if he's a psychopath, but in the end it doesn't matter what the label is. He had no empathy towards me or our children, and very rarely showed feelings of remorse, and when he did, it was manipulative and didn't seem genuine.

I wonder if your ex never felt the need to OVERTLY abuse you the way mine did, because you were already blaming yourself and your body for his lack of desire. If you had been more confident, I wonder if he would have resorted to emotional abuse to gaslight you. One of the most troubling realizations I had was at the end of our marriage when he was honeymooning me, I realized that his behavior was always under his control. (He also has untreated bipolar, so I wondered if it was under his control, even though his abuse was constant even when he wasn't cycling) That made it so much worse. He deliberately chose to harm me, over and over. Then he acted like telling me the "Truth" meant I had to forgive him and stay with him. In reality, it made me disgusted and fear him even more.

Maybe the fact that some GID husbands - like yours - don't resort to actual abuse means that their narcissism really is secondary. They abuse when they have to in order to gaslight their spouse into believing everything is their fault, they're so unattractive, etc....but if their spouse already struggles with self-esteem, like you did, the abuse isn't even necessary. 

I'm so glad you're on your way to build a new life. I was so afraid of divorce for so many years, but my life was SOOO much better in every way afterwards (even with his threats and eventual death threat) that I now know divorce saved my life, and probably the lives of my children.

I would love to know the truth of his mission, but know I never will. He was a chronic liar. He told me he'd baptized 90 people (in North Carolina... please!) and when I found his old missionary tag once, he had seven baptisms attributed to him. He claimed he was Assistant to the President, which I now strongly doubt. He did once tell me, out of meanness, that he lied to me about his mission. He wanted to shock and hurt me, because I was still a devout believer and he wanted to hurt me knowing that he wasn't the faithful Saint he'd portrayed himself to be. So who knows what really happened. 

I also really wonder what happened to him his one semester at BYU, before he stopped going to classes and dropped out. That was during the time BYU was forcing gay students into conversion (electroshock) therapy. I do know something really traumatic happened to him during his life, because he obviously had PTSD.

I guess we have to learn to accept we'll never know the full truth. 

Last edited by beastie (May 22, 2022 6:55 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

May 22, 2022 12:13 pm  #25


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

Ag 🙂 I'd like to helicopter in, scoop you up and whisk you away to somewhere you felt safe, with trustworthy people who would take care of you

After I decided I no longer wanted my partner intimately I realized I actually didn't want him to see me naked ever again. He was never mean about my body but didn't realize what him wanting somebody other than me for sex would end up doing to my self esteem

I think we Mormon girls were just so naive about sex, and so entrained in purity culture that we didn't understand what sexual desire even looked like. So our self-esteem is battered by their lack of interest in us sexually, yet we don't really understand the dynamics of that. I know I didn't really understand until after I got involved in a healthy and loving relationship after my divorce with a heterosexual man.

You were smart to protect yourself. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 22, 2022 6:51 pm  #26


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

beastie wrote:

.....You were smart to protect yourself. 

 
Well Beastie.. Sometimes I think I've gone too far the other way. Closed off so much to avoid being hurt that I'm making myself unreachable.
I do think... Since coming to the realization I may stay in my r'ship...that I need to find a counselor again. I need a neutral space to process my decision. It's all in my brain still and I need to tell somebody who's not close to me.


KIA KAHA                       
 

May 22, 2022 6:56 pm  #27


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

 
Well Beastie.. Sometimes I think I've gone too far the other way. Closed off so much to avoid being hurt that I'm making myself unreachable.
I do think... Since coming to the realization I may stay in my r'ship...that I need to find a counselor again. I need a neutral space to process my decision. It's all in my brain still and I need to tell somebody who's not close to me.

Yes, absolutely find a counselor. I wish you well, no matter what you decide.
 

     Thread Starter
 

May 22, 2022 10:32 pm  #28


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Thanks everyone.  I know my self esteem is pretty messed up because I am often told how capable, great, and you got through x and I tended to brush it off.  Because also how my brain works is like what the hell else was I supposed to do?  Let whatever kill me and take my from my kids, bs to that.    Also he never has said those affirmations to me as well.  

You are all amazing as well.  There is nothing wrong with being careful and guarded after everything.  

Yes, the church does not prepare us for the intimate side of of marriage.  Other than don't do that before marriage.  Once married I had no idea what was normal, when I realized there were issues then its a bit embarassing to talk to people close to you about it.  It was a way I would protect myself from emotional pain.  

Church doesn't really prepare you for real marriage at all.  They taught you how to play house.  Before I left I feel like the only real issue they would tackle on a regular basis is the whole porn thing, which if its that much of an issue in the church I think they need to take a new approach to things.   There were never lessons on affectively communicating, how to support each other (not just him), and teach those boys the dang basics of child rearing.

 

May 23, 2022 10:46 am  #29


Re: Mormonism and Closeted Husbands

Agl03 wrote:

Thanks everyone.  I know my self esteem is pretty messed up because I am often told how capable, great, and you got through x and I tended to brush it off.  Because also how my brain works is like what the hell else was I supposed to do?  Let whatever kill me and take my from my kids, bs to that.    Also he never has said those affirmations to me as well.  

You are all amazing as well.  There is nothing wrong with being careful and guarded after everything.  

Yes, the church does not prepare us for the intimate side of of marriage.  Other than don't do that before marriage.  Once married I had no idea what was normal, when I realized there were issues then its a bit embarassing to talk to people close to you about it.  It was a way I would protect myself from emotional pain.  

Church doesn't really prepare you for real marriage at all.  They taught you how to play house.  Before I left I feel like the only real issue they would tackle on a regular basis is the whole porn thing, which if its that much of an issue in the church I think they need to take a new approach to things.   There were never lessons on affectively communicating, how to support each other (not just him), and teach those boys the dang basics of child rearing.

Yes, the church teaches you to play house. That's a great way to put it! With all the emphasis on families and eternal marriage, it's all presented as a fairy tale. When I went to BYU, it was around the time of the Saturday's Warriors craze, and young people wanted to find their soulmate they had promised to marry in the pre-existence. The leaders wanted to stop that because it was making young people wait to get married until they found "The One". So we were constantly pressured not to be picky, that we could make marriage work with anyone as long as they were faithful and loved the Lord. Fast courtships were common so as to avoid sexual sin. So by the time my ex and I knelt across the altar, we had known each other TWO MONTHS. And that was not unusual. 

So no sexual contact before marriage, and then once you're married, it's still scary and confusing because leaders had in the past declared certain types of sexual contact taboo, even between married couples. My stake president only stopped asking married couples about oral sex a few months before I got married (I heard about it from other young couples). So if you're in a passionless marriage, is that just because sex is sacred and you shouldn't get carried away with passion anyway?  It was so confusing, I never knew what to feel guilty about and what was ok.

I was so messed up that I didn't understand until a few months ago that when my ex coerced me into (painful) anal sex - not physical coercion, but coercion through pouting and saying ugly things to me about how he HAD to have anal sex because I was so "stretched out" (and this even before I had children) - that he was raping me. I used to cry in the shower afterwards, and he knew it, because he felt bad enough ONE time that he said he wouldn't do it anymore, but then went back on his word. It should have been a little clue to me that if I only gave in out of fear, and I wept afterwards from pain and shame, that was not consensual sex. 

I'm not saying all of that was the church's fault, because society was at fault too. I was an adult before most states passed laws against marital rape. But the church certainly didn't help with its obsession with sexual purity and lack of preparation for the realities of marriage. 
 

     Thread Starter
 

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