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January 21, 2022 7:01 pm  #11

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

Again sorry for what you are going through.  Marriage is hard but not this hard.

He's still so confused, but he's healed from the trauma.  He's avoided sex with you for years and now he's ready for action. His honesty is brave - he married you for career advancement only and dislikes his own kids. (Ouch!) 

LGBTQ are great people readers because they have had to survive staying in the closet.  Your husband knows you well.  He knows you try to do the right thing to a fault and are still adhering to fundamentalist church principles. Taking that with his fake problems (am I bi or gay?)  and real abuse (I really don't like you or the kids. Honesty is great!), he's making darn sure you stay married to him.

My late GIDXH (hidden from me, but known to him)  became a better liar to me and more adept narcissist/psychopath by seeking therapy for his "sexual abuse."  This was done by seeing which lies could pass as truth with his shrink. They're well-educated people reader who are good at spotting bs.  (What's up with this monogamish stuff?  Hasn't this sex therapist read 1984 by George Orwell?)

I'm sorry for sounding harsh.  Your h is so mean to you and your kids. I hope you realize this.

BTW, I have to drag this out. I see it happening with you as it did with me.


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 

January 21, 2022 9:02 pm  #12

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

Many members in this Forum thought they were monogamously married longtime to somebody

His therapist could be anyone


Edited to say... Monogamish is bs

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (January 21, 2022 9:05 pm)

KIA KAHA                       

January 21, 2022 10:07 pm  #13

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

I'm bothered by the therapist's temporizing move of "let's hold open some options for other sexual practices in the future."  One result of this temporizing is that it keeps you in limbo, living contingently--meaning your future is contingent on what your husband might or might not decide to do--rather than asserting some postivie and proactive agency over your own future.  Instead you're focused not on what you want--which is monogamy--but instead on what your husband might want and when he might want it. To wit: If he decides to suck and fuck men will he decide he's gay not bi?  If he gets it on with men might he then actually fall in love with one and no longer want marriage?  Contingent is no way to live; it's a recipe for anxiety. It also means that you are stuck in reactive mode, with your husband making decisions to reflect what he wants, with functions like an ultimatum.  "I want this and I'm doing this" is not how negotiations are supposed to work in a marriage. Given your history of being taught to be subservient, this is troublesome.
    (By the way, his pre-"honeymoon" sexual behavior with you for years on end says he is not bi but gay. And I agree with the poster who said how insulting it is to you for him to say that after years of denying you sex and denigrating you and blaming you to avoid it--abusing you, that is--he now says he could see himself having sex with other women.) 
   I'm wondering what the therapist would say if you said to him:  "The problem for me in what you propose (waiting a while to see what other sexual practices might arise as possibilities) is that I don't want to open the marriage, now or in the future.  I don't want a "monogamish" marriage; I want a monogamous one.  I don't want to have to worry that my husband may decide he's not bi but gay.  I don't want to have to worry that my husband might fall in love with one of his male lovers. I don't want to have to worry about STIs, or to have no sex myself just to be safe or to keep my marriage going.  And so this idea of leaving the idea open not only invalidates my preference it also exerts on me a not-so-subtle pressure on me to change my mind.  Do you  think we can resolve this difference?"

(Sean, by the way, has a lot to say about "emotional love with the wife but emotion-less sex with men."  He says, and I don't think I'm misrepresenting what he says, that this, like calling oneself "bi" instead of gay even when one's behavior indicates no attraction for women, is just one more move of a gay man in denial.)

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (January 21, 2022 10:18 pm)


January 21, 2022 10:53 pm  #14

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

LMM wrote:

We’ve read some books by men who are bisexual and love their wives, have great sex and also have different arrangements called “monogam-ish” marriages where they have something with guys but emotional intimacy with the wife. They’ve done it for decades and are all happy. His therapist gave us those. But I know from this forum that sometimes the guy realizes he’s fully gay and wants just men. It’s so complex!

I think the expression is "having your cake and eating it, too."
If you were gay—or leaning heavily on the gay spectrum—wouldn't it be great to have your socially acceptable life (with a wife...and maybe 2.5 children)...and get to indulge your actual sexual fantasies on the side...out of public view? What exactly is in it for you, though?

I think it's important for you to lay your cards on the table now....and not make it seem like there's any chance of your boundaries changing. I do not see how the ambiguity benefits anyone. If monogamy is important to you (as it is for the vast majority of people), let him—and the therapist!!—know that. 


January 21, 2022 10:57 pm  #15

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

I've come back to this one.  It is so troubling.  Sexuality doesnt make a person abusive. Poor character does.  My responses are in brackets at the end of each paragraph (()).

I’m a 40-yr-old wife with several young kids and bisexual husband, just 3 months into this revelation of why he was so harsh and closed off from me. ((Translate: my husband has been abusive - withholding and cruel - for a long time and understandably I am very unhappy. Now hes using bisexuality as an excuse for years of abuse ))

He’s seeing a sex therapist to heal from conversion therapy and we’re seeing a Christian marriage therapist.((hes looking for official backup for his wholesale cheating and to keep you, his housekeeper and childminder, at home for his convenience)).

His sex therapist told him often that we need to put everything on the table for future sex life choices, and then slowly as the years go by we can decide which things are good and healthy for us. ((Thats word salad from the mouth of a master manipulator. You vowed lifelong heterosexual monogamy. You don't have to engage in any of this massive goalpost-shifting if you don't want to)).

We’ve been fundamentalist Christians our whole lives til 2020 ((though he was sneaking gay porn). (Translate: I haven't been looking at porn etc and he has. I believed, he faked it.)).

So we never had any choices except straight, monogamous marriage and many limits within that. ((Except he has been looking at gay porn - and that's only what he admitted to when you discovered it - amIrite?  Look if he wants to engage in affairs, he always did and does have a choice - be honest, give you and the kids the house and a generous divorce settlement and a sound financial future - and go and live that life))

It feels healthy to say we don’t know what’s really OK or not and what we think about moral standards. ((No it sounds very unhealthy, confused and gaslighty to me. Especially from the lips of a good fundamentalist Christian woman.  You are being manipulated my dear into giving him carte blanche and feeling guilty if you don't follow his lead down whatever sex act path he wants to 'explore'))

We now accept that his sexuality isn’t evil or Satanic, so who knows what else is actually OK.((Thats quite a leap. Being bisexual is ok - so now anything goes morally?? Really?? Do you really think that is true? Hes gaslighting you.
He wants to live a swingin'  lifestyle and wants you to engage in kinky stuff too if he so desires. Dont be fooled, if you are not comfortable with it you dont have to do it.  "No" is always possible))

But I worry about misleading him. ((Whaaaat??? He has lied and misled you.  You are being so honest. He has you tied up in knots over his 'problem' but HE is the dishonest and manipulative one.  He misled you into MARRIAGE by not being honest.))

I’ve told him that I agree with his therapist that when our kids are grown and our worldviews have time to grow, I might be OK with different things. He hopes Ill be OK with something like him having oral sex with a guy at a gay bar but not emotion-charged sex in the sense of spending the night in bed with a guy or having ongoing relationships. For now, it feels good to say “Hey, we’ve changed so much lately maybe I’d be fine. But there’s a good chance I won’t.” Still, he may be pinning a lot of hope on it because now for the first time there’s a chance. ((I hope your world view very quickly grows to encompass the possibility of lining up your ducks and kicking this awful person to the kerb.))

Part of me thinks we should make a 100% agreement that marriage is monogamous so that he can mourn that life he never got. ((Isnt that a done deal? Didn't you vow lifelong monogamy to each other on your wedding day? Or did you say "until hubby gets sick of it?" He's already broken the love and honour vow, now he wants to break the monogamy vow. Whats next?  You really have nothing to work with because he never meant the lifelong part. The answer to less than 100% monogamy is actually DIVORCE.))

To me it’s similar to my sister’s infertility, how she is mourning that she’ll never have kids. ((Nothing like.  Your husband is lying and manipulating you into accepting his desire to have sex with other people.  Your sister is grieving something really difficult that she has no control over)) 

People grieve over things and move on. I’ve grieved that my abusive, addict parents won’t ever be real parents and that I can’t visit them or hope for a happy ending. That almost killed me but I grieved and got therapy and accepted it. ((That is so Sad, Im sorry your parents let you down so badly.  Its probably where you learned to endure such poor treatment for so long.  Keep up the individual therapy and learn to love and value yourself.  And model a better family dynamic for your kids than you learned from your parents.  Boundaries, self-respect, honesty.  Get your kids away from your husband's cold toxicity and indifference ))

My husband chose to marry a girl, and he can grieve that our society boxed him in when he could have had sex with guys. ((Nope. He married you knowing he doesn't want to be faithful. Big difference. Liar.))

Part of me also thinks maybe it’s better to give him free reign because then he’s choosing me.((Nope hes choosing sex with other people while you stay round and keep house for him.))

Do I want to be with a man who has to grieve to stay with me?((Nope))

Is it real love then? ((Nope for him it never was. He doesnt like the kids or you, remember?))

After 2 decades of feeling unwanted and rejected, I don’t want to feel like he’s stuck with me. ((Nope.  You dont have to either.  Line up your ducks and divorce this mean, manipulative liar who has made you miserable for years.  You and the kids will be better off without him)).

I'm sorry you are going through this hell.  I hope you find clarity and strength to make some good decisions for you and your kids.

Last edited by Soaplife (January 21, 2022 11:03 pm)


January 22, 2022 10:19 am  #16

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

“Bi now, gay later.”


‘Bi’ might seem real to 19 year old college girls.  But for us 40 something married types, our partner’s ‘bi’ is usually just the key to unlock the gay door.


January 22, 2022 12:24 pm  #17

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

Lots of good stuff here already.  

What do YOU want, though?  Do you want a husband who goes to gay bars for random oral sex with dudes, but still comes home to fake a heteronormative life with you?  How would you respond to one of your kids if they told you this was the situation they found themselves in?

I'm sorry you are in the thick of this.  Good luck, and keep posting.


January 22, 2022 4:37 pm  #18

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

lily wrote:

The question I think you need to ask yourself is do you really believe you are having great sex now, and it's happening because your partner is healing from trauma - or do you think that is selling the experience of the previous 20 years a bit short.

I wish we could sit down over tea and talk about this! You really help me clarify what’s at play and what I care about. Your question brings up an important piece, and my answer is I have no idea whatsoever if sex is great now. Not only that I don’t have any real experience outside of sleeping with him, but I had no dating or sex Ed class or anything like that. Very strict religious kid, and homeschooled for purity! I never had friends as a teen or adult who talk about sex in any way.

I don’t know what it’s like to sleep with a guy who’s 100% straight. And he’s just started therapy for years of sexual abuse as a kid. He was so terrified of sex, he dissociated (numbed out) or else got flashbacks and started sobbing. That’s the big thing that changed 3 months ago, he calmed those triggers and doesn’t go into flashbacks anymore.

Our families are both alcoholic and deeply abused us in other ways, which we’re seeing is our biggest marriage problem. We don’t know how to relate in normal, healthy ways. I’ve joined a 12 Step program for my abuse trauma. There’s a LOT besides the bisexual part!

     Thread Starter

January 22, 2022 7:21 pm  #19

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

thanks,  sorry I am not a cup of tea away but we are all here and do care.

From what I can see, most people have been sexually abused by the time they reach adulthood.  I don't see it as an excuse for not treating our partner well.

It does not sound good to me - what's going on between him and his therapist - it sounds like he is learning new tricks in how to stay married and have a sex life with men.

What is good is you are here and you are talking and looking to get clarity and that is a strong position to be in.  

Blame shifting and minimising - I don't care how much there is besides the bisexual part, the bisexual part remains the key issue behind his behaviour.

I do not believe it is healing from abuse that has calmed him down for one minute!  The obvious answer is staring you in the face isn't it.

I would like to give you some advice.

Just for the moment, cast all self questioning and criticism aside, park it at the door, give yourself a hug instead.  

tell your husband it's all been a bit much and you need a break from sex altogether for a while.    You wish him all the best but don't want to know about his therapy either.  You just want to put all your attention and energy into looking after the children and then, while you are on a roll, make a booking for an appt with the doctor for a general check up.

Look for people who will support you on the ground.  wishing you lots of good luck.  xox

Last edited by lily (January 22, 2022 7:22 pm)


January 24, 2022 6:28 pm  #20

Re: Futility or Productive Work?

All of these perspectives are helping me see that I don’t want to conform to helping him heal or making him feel better. Reading (rereading!) these thoughts from all of you left me with a couple distinct thoughts:
1. I’m focused on helping him feel better because ever since I met him, I’ve felt so sad for his problem of SSA. People mistreated him and he endured years of the cruel reparative therapy. He’s been depressed our whole marriage. I feel like only a real jerk would leave someone who’s in pain like him. BUT that’s not my issue in this way. I’ll stop taking it on.

2. I can’t tell if he’s healing or just trying a whole new ploy to keep me around. I really could see it being either way! No way to tell but time.

Last night in a sweet, cuddly moment I whispered to him that this new intimacy and love makes me see that I could never share him. The more he opens up and we build intimacy, the more it would kill me to know he did anything with guys. I smiled and kissed him, let it be a sweet moment - or with someone really in love and safe it should be sweet and affirming.

His body went stiff and he sank inside himself, like he floats away emotionally. Then he said with a tight voice, “I’ll have to think about that.”

I said, “You can think about how much we love each other!” I guess I tried to keep it really shallow and not what I feared it might be for him.

He really detached emotionally while I was cuddled up with him. I know the feeling, after 2 decades of it. I got up a couple minutes later and he sulked away. Went to bed without saying anything. Left quickly this morning, avoiding me.

Today my aunt came for tea and I opened ip about all of the gay/bi issue and how it’s been. Her daughter is a lesbian in a long term relationship, living nearby. I knew I could trust my aunt to not be homophobic. When I started, my aunt went, “Is he gay?! Oh wow, your cousin has asked me so many times if he’s gay! We’ve never known how to ask you or him because it would be so awkward if she’s wrong.”

We had a long talk where she basically kept telling me not to settle. She echoed everything I’ve read here! Kept reminding me I can find a job and raise the kids.

     Thread Starter

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