OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean · January 15, 2018 11:32 am

Happy new year JK. Great to hear from you. In response to your question, I mean that I've accepted and apologized for the terrible things I did in my own gay/straight marriage, particularly at the end. I've also accepted that had my wife and I remained married, as she suggested when we were in our MOM/bargaining stage, it would have made us even more miserable while at the same time destroying our kids' spirits. In our situation, meaning a gay/straight sexless marriage with a toxic narcissistic husband (me), there was no other alternative to separation/divorce.

Last edited by Sean (January 15, 2018 5:28 pm)

Lburros · January 15, 2018 7:16 pm

Sorry this is so long but you really need all the facts:

Hello. My husband and I have been married for 22 years. When we first got married he was extremely jealous and controlling, he did not like me to even wear a bikini. About 5 or so years ago things changed when I got breast implants, he wanted me to start wearing skimpy bikinis and cloths when we were out of town. He then wanted us to join a voyeur website and post naked pictures of me which eventually started us video chatting with other users. Sometimes he would want to watch other men jack their cocks with me talking dirty to them. He has even wanted other men to touch me with him there but no sex involved. He has lied about a good guy friend of his and how much they talk and when I confronted him he got very defensive. Now come to find out he wants me to talk dirty while we are having sex and the other night he was drunk and wanted me to talk about jacking him off and a total stranger at the same time. This made him very aroused. Afterwards he even asked if he "went too far". I have tried to talk to him about being bisexual and what exactly turns him on when other men are
touching me and eventually they start stroking their own cocks because I have never touched another man. When I asked about him being bisexual he got defensive again, jumped in my face and yelled "I'm not gay". My gut is telling me otherwise but then I also know how sometimes we get things in our mind and our minds play tricks on us. My husband is very conservative, does not like the LGBT community, he
works out regularly and is very worried about what others think of him. Now for the first time, he is all about pleasing me and making me happy during sex. I just don't know what to do.

Does this sound like anything you have ever heard? Any help and advice you can give me would be great. Thank you.

Sean · January 16, 2018 2:50 am

Hi LB. Thank you for writing, although I'm so very sorry that you've found yourself here. In response to your message:

1. Hello. My husband and I have been married for 22 years. When we first got married he was extremely jealous and controlling, he did not like me to even wear a bikini.

Understood.

2. About 5 or so years ago things changed when I got breast implants, he wanted me to start wearing skimpy bikinis and clothes when we were out of town. He then wanted us to join a voyeur website and post naked pictures of me which eventually started us video chatting with other users. Sometimes he would want to watch other men jack their cocks with me talking dirty to them.

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

a. Did anything change in your relationship five years ago? If yes, please share.
b. Did you want the breast implants or did your husband push you to get them?

With regards to the cam/voyeur sites, I'd be alarmed if your husband was using you as "bait" to fulfill his need to watch men masturbate. Final question: for these cam sites, did he show an interest in just men or both women & men?

3. He has even wanted other men to touch me with him there but no sex involved.

Question: do you enjoy all of this or are you doing it to please him?

4. He has lied about a good guy friend of his and how much they talk and when I confronted him he got very defensive.

This is a red flag I believe, particularly with men who are 50+ years old. The closeted gay best friend (really a lover) is something I've read about quite a bit in this forum. Think "Brokeback Mountain." Gay men in their 50s, 60s and 70s grew up during a time when being gay was often illegal. Then there was AIDS so they learned a kind of internalized homophobia. The two most common scenarios I've read about are as follows: he has a single friend who he almost treats like a wife with constant contact, trips together, and they spend most of their free time together. The second scenario is another married man but, again, they have an almost husband-husband relationship. The fact that he's defensive about it is another red flag.

5. Now come to find out he wants me to talk dirty while we are having sex and the other night he was drunk and wanted me to talk about jacking him off and a total stranger at the same time. This made him very aroused. Afterwards he even asked if he "went too far". I have tried to talk to him about being bisexual and what exactly turns him on when other men are touching me and eventually they start stroking their own cocks because I have never touched another man.

This is a bit confusing. Are you two now meeting with other men or is this still just virtual/fantasy? With regards to his drunken confession, I've read about something similar. The most common scenario I've read about is a drunk husband assuming a passive (or "bottom") sex position as if his wife would penetrate him.

6. When I asked about him being bisexual he got defensive again, jumped in my face and yelled "I'm not gay". My gut is telling me otherwise but then I also know how sometimes we get things in our mind and our minds play tricks on us.

Well if you said "bisexual" and he then went to yelling "I'm not gay," that's another red flag in my opinion. It's like a former client of mine who just spontaneously said, "I'm not an alcoholic" when that only made me think, "Perhaps she is an alcoholic."

7. My husband is very conservative, does not like the LGBT community, he works out regularly and is very worried about what others think of him.

This is another red flag. In my experience, purely straight men just can't conceptualize gay sex nor gay attraction. It's kind of like modern art to them. They just contemplate it and neutrally shrug: "Hmmm. Ok." It's there but it has no effect on them. However, violently anti-gay men are often closeted gays who obsess about homosexuality and gay sex, but in a very self-hating way. There are often conservative, macho-acting, and religious.

8. Now for the first time, he is all about pleasing me and making me happy during sex. I just don't know what to do.

I'm so sorry you're struggling my friend. This sounds a lot like the honeymoon phase following an "Are you gay/bisexual?" confrontation. It's a period of a few weeks or perhaps months during which the gay-in-denial husband tries to act as straight as possible. The most common things I've read about are: a renewed interest in sex...almost to the point of obsession; new relationship behaviour like buying flowers & chocolates; and a renewed commitment to the relationship. Unfortunately, it's often short-lived. Once the straight spouse is securely back in the relationship, he goes back to his former habits of neglect, mistreatment, or abuse.

There are no hard and fast rules as to whether a husband is gay, straight, a cross-dresser, or even a closeted trans woman. What I've learned from my own experience and from my exchanges with countless straight spouses here is that actions (or sometimes inaction) always tell the truth. For example, if you haven't had sex with your husband in years and yet he's watching gay porn while having sex with men, he's gay. His words mean nothing because his actions confirm that he's gay. If over the course of your relationship, your husband honestly delights in your body, enjoys having sex with you, frequently initiates sex, and seems generally attracted to women & men, then his actions suggest he's bisexual. To what degree is to be determined.

Turning now to what you shared: your husband enjoys watching other men masturbate; he has a very close (perhaps almost husband-like) relationship with another man; when drunk he expressed a masturbation fantasy with other men; he spontaneously uttered "I'm not gay" when you asked if he was bisexual; and seems very homophobic. These are all red flags suggesting he is indeed attracted to men. But setting aside the gay thing, you now have to determine if this relationship is what you wanted in a husband/partner. It's highly unlikely he'll admit he's gay because he's probably spent his entire life denying and fearing this part of himself. Please post more information so that we can start working through it.

I hope that helps. Be well.

Last edited by Sean (January 16, 2018 5:38 am)

Lburros · January 16, 2018 10:58 am

Thank you Sean for replying. To answer your questions:

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

a. Did anything change in your relationship five years ago? If yes, please share.

No, other than the implants and his sudden interest in voyeur websites.

b. Did you want the breast implants or did your husband push you to get them?

I wanted them. In fact he did not want me to get them, said it was stupid and would not talk about it for a long time. But I kept pushing and he finally admitted he was insecure about it changing me, he even said "the older we get, you just get prettier and I get uglier". I assured him nothing would change on my part and it didn't, except that I did not wear a push up bra and had more confidence.

With regards to the cam/voyeur sites, I'd be alarmed if your husband was using you as "bait" to fulfill his need to watch men masturbate. Final question: for these cam sites, did he show an interest in just men or both women & men?

I have thought about this too. He usually wants me to chat with men and does not seem to enjoy even chatting with other couples.

Honestly, I love him with all my heart and have told him the only way I would ever leave him was if he said he didn't love me anymore. But I can't stand the feeling of him lying and not being honest with me.

The part you talk about the "honeymoon" phase is dead on. It's like I am really trying to appreciate and enjoy it but in the back of my mind I'm thinking how long is this going to last.

One thing you should know is his guy friend is engaged to a woman, as far as I know my husband and his friend don't really hang out that much, just talk on the phone about every day. When I asked him about all four of us hanging out he was very uncomfortable and did not like the idea. He said he would mention it to the friend but that was 2 weeks ago and nothing has changed. The friend acts very uncomfortable when he is around me.

We only do things with other men when we are out of town and meet someone at our hotel and/or bar. My husband usually initiates the conversation talking about me and sometimes he'll show a picture of me from The Voyeur website of my ass or boobs and talks the guy into coming back to our hotel. You asked if I enjoyed this, and during the time I actually do (we both are always drinking when this happens) but then I regret it later and sometimes have a hard time fantasizing or replaying the incident how my husband wants me to.

I hope I answered all your questions I know this is a lot. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.

Sean · January 16, 2018 3:14 pm

Thanks LB. Before we go any further, I want you to take care of yourself first. And that means taking care of your mental and physical health. If you are posting here and asking questions such as, "Is my husband gay?", there is a very good chance your husband is cheating on you. So I recommend the following: get tested this week for sexually transmitted diseases; in future only practice safe sex with your husband; and reach out to the safe spouse network to find out about meetings, contacts, or counsellors in your area (tel: 773-413-8213). If you typically have unprotected sex, your husband will likely challenge your decision to now use condoms. While you might feel guilty: don't. It's your body, your health, and your life. End of rant.

Turning now to your post:

1. The part you talk about the "honeymoon" phase is dead on. It's like I am really trying to appreciate and enjoy it but in the back of my mind I'm thinking how long is this going to last.

I understand how it can be disorienting for straight wives: years of neglect; explosive conflict; and then suddenly it feels like a second honeymoon. Did it start right after you questioned his sexuality?

2. One thing you should know is his guy friend is engaged to a woman, as far as I know my husband and his friend don't really hang out that much, just talk on the phone about every day. When I asked him about all four of us hanging out he was very uncomfortable and did not like the idea. He said he would mention it to the friend but that was 2 weeks ago and nothing has changed. The friend acts very uncomfortable when he is around me.

This certainly fits descriptions I've read in the past about gay lovers and how they act around the straight spouse.

3. We only do things with other men when we are out of town and meet someone at our hotel and/or bar. My husband usually initiates the conversation talking about me and sometimes he'll show a picture of me from The Voyeur website of my ass or boobs and talks the[b] guy into coming back to our hotel. [/b] You asked if I enjoyed this, and during the time I actually do (we both are always drinking when this happens) but then I regret it later and sometimes have a hard time fantasizing or replaying the incident how my husband wants me to.

Again I'd strongly recommend that you practice only safe sex during these encounters. Given what you've shared, it sounds like you're reluctantly going along with these outings to keep your husband happy. If you feel regret and have a hangover after, then you're entitled to stop. If your husband loves you and is focused on your well being, then he'll understand.

I have a question. You wrote about these threesomes as follows: "He has even wanted other men to touch me with him there but no sex involved." What exactly is your husband doing during these touching sessions?

Again I think it's time to focus on you and your needs. That means: getting tested for STDs; practicing safe sex by using condoms; reaching out to the Straight Spouse Network for support; and perhaps getting professional help to determine whether you're really enjoying these sexual encounters or being manipulated into them against your will.

Thanks again LB for your courage & honesty. You are not alone.

Last edited by Sean (January 17, 2018 12:37 am)

Lburros · January 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Sean, I definitely will get tested. To answer your question, my husband is always there watching and participating. Once there was a guy that wanted to touch my husband and my husband got mad and told him to leave. But of course I was there so who knows.

Yes, the "honeymoon phase" started after he lied to me about a conversation with his guy friend and we had a huge fight. This is the same time I asked if he was bisexual.

I can't remember if you asked anything else. Thanks again so much for your support and help!

Last edited by Lburros (January 16, 2018 3:27 pm)

Roo · January 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Hi Sean! You have answered my questions in the past and I am again looking for advice.
Some of this is hard for me to ask as I don't want to get too descriptive but here goes:
My bi husband is always complaining that I never initiate sex. It's true, I don't. Especially now that he has come out as bi. But when we do have sex, I always have to talk dirty...he likes/wants me to call him my little slut fag*** and to talk about big dicks (for both of us). This seems to get him really umm, horny. He definitely likes to be in the submissive role. He even said he would 'dress up' for me. He loves when I play the dominant-mistress-very aggressive role. Yet he still talks about the women he sees on TV etc about how hot they are and that there are things he could do with them blah blah blah. Is this a cover? He has always talked about women. He has always looked at porn (girl) and I don't know where the switch or change came into play. He is constanly on the gay hook-up sites, craigslist and Fetlife. We did try some things at one point many years ago and I am not proud of them. I hope that is not where it all started because I feel like it would be my fault for giving in. (We tried a few swing clubs). I hated it and now I'm sorry for that part of my life.
Thanks for listening

Last edited by Roo (January 16, 2018 3:46 pm)

Sean · January 17, 2018 1:27 am

Thanks LB and Roo. In response to your posts:

1. LB: Sean, I definitely will get tested.

Good. One way of finding out if your husband is doing anything on the side is to purchase a cheap OralB HIV (Aids) test from your local pharmacy. They are simple, mouth swab-type tests that you can do at home with results in 10-15 minutes. I know because like most gay men, I've used them. Bring the test home, break it out, and casually ask your husband to open his mouth. When he asks, just tell him it's a home STD (not AIDS) test. If he loses his sh*t, gets defensive, or gets agressive, that's pretty much confirmation that he's cheating on you.

2. LB: To answer your question, my husband is always there watching and participating. Once there was a guy that wanted to touch my husband and my husband got mad and told him to leave. But of course I was there so who knows.

What exactly does "participating" mean? I'd suggest consulting with a sex therapist to determine first, if this is something you truly enjoy, and second to find out what exactly is going on in your husband's head. I believe it's called a "cuckolding" fantasy when a husband fantasizes or watches his wife having sex with other men. In my (very unprofessional) opinion, I reckon he's watching you do things with men that he's fantasizing about. But I'd ask a sex therapist for her opinion.

3. Roo: My bi husband is always complaining that I never initiate sex. It's true, I don't. Especially now that he has come out as bi.

I think it's perfectly normal that you're hesitating. Knowing your husband f*cks men is understandably a turnoff. See my post above about getting tested for sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). If your husband is having sex outside of your marriage, practice only safe sex and get tested immediately for STDs. With regards to his guilt trip: f*ck him! Guilt, shame, and manipulation are often tools that gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) - or perhaps here bi-in-denial - use to project feelings of inadequacy on their straight partners. Does he ever initiate sex? Why is this your fault? What a pr*ck.

4. Roo: But when we do have sex, I always have to talk dirty...he likes/wants me to call him my little slut fag*** and to talk about big dicks (for both of us). This seems to get him really umm, horny. He definitely likes to be in the submissive role. He even said he would 'dress up' for me. He loves when I play the dominant-mistress-very aggressive role.

Let's assume by submissive you mean that he wants you to penetrate him with a strap on or dildos. Correct? I'm going to give you my opinion, but I'd suggest you discuss this with a sex therapist or licensed marriage counsellor. I believe that he's moved from the hiding period (of hidden gay porn and cheating on the side) to a stage when he's using his wife as a prop in his gay sexual fantasies. This is similar to what LB described in her previous posts (see above). There seems to be a limbo stage in the coming out process when a GIDH is more or less out sexually, but not yet to himself. So he uses his poor straight wife as a prop, making her act out his gay fantasies. This is what I believe LB's husband is doing. Some examples I've read about here are when a GIDH:

- Takes his reluctant wife to a gay strip club and forces her to touch a strippers d*ck
- Threesomes where two men essentially f*ck while she watches
- Encouraging his wife to have lesbian sex or affairs
- Masturbating while watching his wife have sex with another man

5. Yet he still talks about the women he sees on TV etc about how hot they are and that there are things he could do with them blah blah blah. Is this a cover?

I'd look at actions rather than words. For example, it's very easy for me to say that I fantasize about women. Most GIDHs like me played straight for most of their lives. But if his porn habits are exclusively gay, he's forcing you to act like a man in the bedroom, and he's cheating with just men, he's as gay as a rainbow.

6. He has always talked about women. He has always looked at porn (girl) and I don't know where the switch or change came into play. He is constantly on the gay hook-up sites, craigslist and Fetlife. We did try some things at one point many years ago and I am not proud of them. I hope that is not where it all started because I feel like it would be my fault for giving in. (We tried a few swing clubs). I hated it and now I'm sorry for that part of my life.

Does your husband now have your permission to have sex with men outside of your marriage? If yes, is he having sex with only men? Please let me know. With regards to your fears, no you didn't make him gay. Gay people are born gay. Period. Despite some crazed religious nuts who believe in talking snakes and parting waters, you can't learn to be gay. And I've never believed the bullsh*t excuse of, "I touched another boy's pee pee as a child which made me gay." No one ever explains away their heterosexuality. They just are and it's the same for gay people. End of rant! Getting back to your post, if his sexual preference is exclusively gay and he's constantly on gay hook up sites, then he's a gay man. Period. Is he also hooking up with women? I doubt it. With regards to your regret, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of this. You feel regret because you did it without consent. It sounds like both you and LB (read previous posts) have *sshole GIDH husbands forcing you to live out their sexual fantasies. It's wrong and it certainly isn't love.

Here's an idea for both of you: why not ask your husbands to live out your fantasies. Tell them you have a female festish/fantasy and that you've always been attracted to other women. So tell him you want to watch as he f*cks another woman. You'll just watch and masturbate...just like they do. Fair's fair because you've been doing this for years. If they are indeed gay men, with little to no attraction to women, I reckon neither of them can have penetrative sex anymore because you need to be attracted to women to do so. Near the end of my relationship, I'd "jumped the shark" so to speak. That meant I was sexually exclusively gay and yet emotionally heterosexual because I was still married to a woman.

So what's my point? I'll end this rambling post with some concrete advice.

1. Get tested: I think both LB and Roo should get tested for STDs and only have safe sex going forward.
2. Take care of yourself: Both women should contact the Straight Spouse Network, get in touch with other straight spouses, create their own threads here for support, and get counselling/therapy.
3. He's coming out: I feel that both husbands have moved from the purely denial stage, "I'm not gay and I love you" to a middle stage during which the gay husband is now overtly having sex with men. I refer to this as emotionally straight (because he's married) and yet sexually gay (wife has to act/talk like a man in the bedroom and he's clearly cheating).
4. Be prepared: If your husbands are anything like me, once they fall in love with another man, they'll end your relationship. So be prepared for an abrupt end. That stings but I'd: gather your proof of cheating/gay porn surfing, consult with a divorce lawyer, and start thinking about your financial security/division of assets.

I hope that helps friends. Be well!

Last edited by Sean (January 17, 2018 11:37 am)

Lburros · January 17, 2018 12:15 pm

Thanks Sean. Just to clarify, not sure if it really matters, but I have never had intercourse or even touched another man, and my husband has never asked me to. In our threesomes, I may give my husband and the other guy a striptease lap dance which leads to both men playing and sucking my boobs at the same time. I always pay attention to my husband while the other guy is fondling/playing with me. Until eventually we ask the other guy to leave and me and my husband have sex. Which is always amazing.

When I did ask my husband what about the whole thing he enjoyed, he explained it as being a "mancho/ego" thing of the other person can touch a little but I only have sex with my husband, and the other guy "can't have me". Call me crazy but I love the attention.

I am getting a test today and just taking things day by day. I am keeping my guard up and will pay more attention to certain things.

Thanks again for all your sweet words of encouragement and support.

LB

Duped · January 17, 2018 1:30 pm

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Last edited by Duped (August 28, 2019 2:04 pm)

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