Thank you for your insights Kel. I agree that gay/straight sex is like eating food without taste, watching black and white TV, or (as Amy Schumer says) "just taking 1 Advil." This is what I most fear about mixed orientation marriages (or "MOMs") and gay conversion therapy. Intimacy is more than just sex. It's about desiring and feeling desired which is impossible if we're with the wrong gender. I've been posting here for over a year and I now see separation/divorce differently. I no longer see a gay/straight couple's divorce as win/lose: it represents freedom for both spouses. Yes it's traumatic, for both spouses and their children, but it's ultimately freeing. The gay spouse can begin his/her journey to authenticity without using a straight spouse as some sort of f*cked up emotional punching bag. Conversely, the straight spouse now has a crack at a real relationship with a heterosexual partner. What I enjoy about your posts Kel is that they give straight spouses hope. So keep shining my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (January 11, 2018 2:04 am)

Oh, and he went and got his ears pierced yesterday. quit his full time job a month ago, was working 2 jobs and now just working at Sephora almost full time and signed up to go to cosmetology school starting in March. Went from being a Marine, to getting his class A license to drive heavy equipment or trucks, to getting his bachelors degree in business admin and working as a sales rep for a big alcohol distributor, to working at Sephora and going to beauty school, this has been in 5 years, my head is spinning! Will be glad to be out of this insanity! I’m sure there will be a next thing and probably another beard.

Thank you both for sharing. Jamie I have a question for you: when did you know your relationship was over? Thanks in advance for your reply. I've been posting here for a little over a year and have learned a lot. One of the things I believe is that if you're posting here for the first time, whether you accept it or not, your marriage is likely over. That may sting but allow me to explain. 

​Most gay/straight relationships follow a similar pattern, and that pattern is:

​1. Courting/Dating: He (the gay-in-denial boyfriend) seems so kind and sensitive.
​2. She (the girlfriend) suspects he's gay but quickly moves into the "he's my soulmate" mode and denies it.
​3. She's troubled by his lack of interest in sex.
​4. Married: There is less and less intimacy and zero desire during now infrequent sex. This inevitably leads to conflict.
​5. Detective: She starts snooping through his emails, phone, or computer history.
​6. Discovery: She finds Craigslist messages, gay porn history, or text/emails proving cheating with men. This is often when she starts posting here. 
​7. Confrontation: She confronts him, "Are you gay?"
​8. Denial: He denies that he's gay (even though he's f*cking men), claiming "curiosity" "childhood abuse" or some other bullsh*t story. He swears he'll never do it again.     
​9. Double Down: The couple doubles down on the relationship out of fear or a vow to stay together "for the kids." This often means couples counselling, or he has a renewed interest in sex. It lasts just weeks or months.  
​10. Repeat: They go through three or more cycles of discovery; confrontation; denial; and double down. He gets more abusive each time, often claiming (unbelievably) that it's her fault he's f*cking men. What!? This is when he'll often start pushing hard to open up the marriage. She may post here about a mixed orientation marriage (MOM).
11. Breaking Point: Under intense strain, she starts breaking down physically, mentally, and emotionally. She's drowning because she's trying to swim with this *sshole, cheating liar on her back.
​12. Separation/Divorce: In the interest of survival and perhaps protecting her kids, the couple separates and divorces.

​Do you agree? This is my personal interpretation of what happens based on my own relationship and based on what I've read here over the past 15 months. Please let me know your thoughts. Be well my friends.

Last edited by Sean (January 12, 2018 5:02 am)

Hi Phoenix! In reply: 

1. You refer to "childhood abuse" as a common "story" or excuse for a homosexual in denial.  

Yes. There seems to be a pattern. When a gay-in-denial husband's (GIDH) back is truly against the wall and his wife is on the verge of leaving him, he often breaks out an abuse story. I've read about it time and time again here. 

​2. This comes up in a very high percentage of the stories of new members here on the forum.  It seems so frequent that childhood abuse is one of the causes that the GID husbands use.  I find myself rolling my eyes every time I hear it.  I'm wondering how realistic this is. 

Before I reply, I want to make it very clear that I believe any form of sexual abuse is barbaric, completely unacceptable, and rightfully illegal. But GIDHs are a different creature altogether. I tend to believe that gay husbands hiding their sexuality are often narcissists, if not full-blown sociopaths. I certainly was. So that makes a GIDH a master manipulator who will often say or do anything to hide his sexuality by preserving his heterosexual marriage. That said, I tend to be skeptical about GIDH claims about childhood sexual abuse, not unlike when I read about the common "I'm bisexual" defence. Some time ago, I posted a checklist for straight wives who hear the "I was molested" claim. If memory serves, my list as to whether he's telling the truth was as follows:

​a. Has he ever discussed childhood abuse before?
​b. Did he claim he was molested/abused when you were on the verge of leaving him?
​c. Is he blaming the abuse on someone who has died or is otherwise unreachable?
d. Does he have a history of lying and manipulation to explain away gay sexual behaviour like cheating?
​e. Is he claiming sexual abuse while at the same time suggesting you both attend therapy together? 

​If the answer to the above is "yes" then I'd assume he's trying to paint himself as a victim so that his straight wife will feel the need to save & protect him by staying in a dysfunctional and abusive marriage. If you really want to know the truth about the abuse, here are some suggested replies: 

​a. When did the abuse occur? How often did it happen? And by whom? 
​b. If the abuser is still alive, suggest that he go to the police to press charges with your full support. 
​c. Tell him that he needs to go for counselling alone. 
​
3. Is childhood abuse very common among gay males? 

​I don't know. I was never abused and none of my gay friends were abused as children. 

4. Is it a legitimate and frequent cause for homosexuality?   

I don't think so no. Some people, many of whom are deeply religious, claim that homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or "choice." Saying that childhood abuse results in homosexuality simply feeds the narrative that these people are broken and can somehow be fixed. 

​5. It seems that sexual contact with an adult male at a young age would be an uncomfortable and unwanted experience, so I don't understand how it would lead to a man becoming gay later in life.  Wouldn't that make a person want to avoid contact with a male rather than invite it?

​I really don't know as I'm not a mental health professional. 

​6. I guess my current line of thought is that our society has accepted that childhood abuse is a viable "excuse" for homosexual desires. 

​I'm not sure if most people believe this to be true. But for some people, mainly those of deep faith pushing conversion "cure" therapy for homosexuality, I'd say yes it's an excuse for "same sex attraction" as they call it. I firmly believe I was personally born gay. 

7. I'm not sure what the genesis of this thinking is, perhaps a book or movie or some kind of study that was done?   But for some reason our society accepts this reason.  Because it's an acceptable reason, people who are ashamed to be homosexual seem to use it as an excuse very very often. 

Agreed. I think it plays into a narrative that being gay is somehow a moral failing, the result of something, and is perhaps treatable. For a long time, I too believed that I was "broken" because of my absent father and dominant mother. In my case, that's complete bullsh*t but it still took me time to overcome things I'd heard repeated most of my life. 

​8. What do you think?  Am I wrong about this? I hate to stereotype of course and I try not to do it.  But every time I read the "childhood abuse card" I just don't seem to believe it. 

When it comes to childhood abuse and GIDHs, there are two possibilities: 

a. He's telling the truth and believes this caused his homosexuality. 
​b. He's lying to explain away why you caught him again cheating, on Craigslist etc. 

​If your gay-in-denial husband has a history of lying, manipulation, and abusing YOU, then I'd approach his "I was abused" defence from the standpoint of: "Ok. I'm listening. I want facts. Prove it." Hearing a husband claim childhood abuse triggers a strong emotional response. Sadly, I fear that GIDHs are simply using fake stories of abuse to manipulate straight wives to remain in broken relationships. A healthy and honest person would say, "I'm sharing this story with you because I need to get help. I'm sorry for the way I've acted and this is what I'm going to do on my own to make it better."  A lying, narcissistic, GIDH would subtly use these claims to shift blame away from himself and on to his wife. That would sound like, "You haven't supported me enough. We need to go to counselling. I want to open up our marriage to threesomes" or "I want to have your permission to sleep with men." An honest person can provide details, can apologize, and makes an honest effort to change. A GIDH *sshole will claim "I can't remember" when pressed for details, shifts blame onto his long-suffering wife, while at the same time making her feel like she isn't doing enough to fix a relationship he ruined. End of rant!  

​I hope I've answered your questions. If not, please feel free to write again.  

Last edited by Sean (January 12, 2018 12:58 pm)

Thanks Abby. You make a very good point. I have some questions if you don't mind: 

​1. Did your husband talk about the abuse when you were seriously considering separation/divorce? 
​2. Did you believe him at the time or discuss it with other family members to confirm? 
​3. Did he try to use the abuse to keep you in your marriage? For example, 'You can't leave me now. I need your help!'
​
​Thanks in advance for answering and please disregard the questions if you don't feel comfortable replying.