Just for us laymen can I take what you said as he is saying being gay is the same as anorexia and can be cured with therapy????????
Because I just got the mental picture of being strapped to a chair at a government black site, with my eyes trapped open with video screens all around with a monotone voice saying you will be straight. Not making light of this but... Wow.

Last edited by Demons-halo (May 8, 2017 12:36 pm)

DH, lol, yes, that is in a very basic nutshell what he is stating.

He remarks that as a result of psychological corruption, deviant sexualites emerge. Psychological corruption taking many forms from the benign (social conditioning via overly positive feminine representation, think everything your male child watches on Disney being princess based) to damaging psychological experiences (neglectful or abusive father causing a severe rift in your intrapersonal dialog on masculinity).

DH,

Yes, it is very akin to what a convicted rapist might say. An apt analogy would be the rapist saying "I was not meant to be this. I am this due to abnormalities in my life that influenced my development and I allowed them to run amok resulting in me being this. I recognize I am not working as intended and want to negotiate repair."

Thanks for sharing everyone. In response to your post Lyonene:

1. My background is medical/science. It's my training, my schooling, my profession. Due to this, the man that I am disengaging from has decided the best way to appeal to me is via a science angle.

​That's rather clever of him...perhaps a little to clever.  

2. He's not wrong, it is the best way to appeal to me. Subjective realities can be transient, while objective ones endure. That's the route he's chosen.

I think it speaks volumes that he's using scientific arguments to win you over...particularly if he himself isn't a scientist.

​3. He is currently asserting that forms of deviant (understand I am using the term deviant in the classical sense, not pejorative one) male sexuality are due to psychological disturbance and disconnect from the masculine self.

​I'm not offended. I believe this is the same narrative used by the people and organizations, like NARTH (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality), promoting conversion therapy.

4. He is further putting forth that due to the nature of psychological disturbance and corruption of the masculine self as developments of psychological abnormality, they can be worked through and repaired much like any psychological condition i.e. anorexia nervosa.

​If that's what he truly believes, then why not suggest he sign up for conversion therapy camp to "cure" himself? If someone has a drug or alcohol addiction, they go to rehab. If he's truly committed to keeping you, tell him to get back in touch with you after he's cured and hasn't watched porn for at least two years. If however he suggests couples therapy, this is a red flag. This may mean he believes the relationship is the problem when he is very clearly the main problem.   

5. What are your thoughts/feelings on this point of view he has taken up?

​​I think he's full of sh*t. I'm happy to share why but please understand that I'm not a mental health professional, nor a scientist. With that in mind here's my take:

​Opinion #1: I believe my sexuality is involuntary, so I firmly believe I was born gay.

Why would I choose to be gay? Why would I choose to be attracted to the same sex in the face of a culture that has vilified, marginalized, and even arrested gay people my whole life? Everything and everyone in my life pointed to me being heterosexual. So I don't believe it was a choice. It was as involuntary as my eye colour. So porn doesn't make gay men. If it did, every man on Earth would be gay right now.

​ Opinion #2: I don't believe conversion therapy works.

​​If your husband truly believes his trannie/penis/gay porn addiction can be cured by conversion therapy, I say: have at it! Let him go through conversion therapy and succeed at it...all without you. I'd suggest the following approach: "I agree that you are ill and may be suffering from a form of porn addiction. While you are going through conversion therapy, I believe it's best that we separate. Once you are cured of your homosexuality and porn addiction, please feel free to get back in touch with me." If he accepts he's the problem, that also means he's the solution. But he has to do all of this on his own.

​Opinion #3: Your husband is manipulating you.

​Your words: "Yesterday was performance day. It was amazing. He should apply to play Hamlet in local theater. His drama is so thick it's tangible. I was treated to a fest of waterworks, passionate pleas, self hatred, and avowals of how "broken" he's been. This went on for hours. By the end I was just exhausted from listening." Trust your intuition. I find it rather questionable that your husband revealed the childhood abuse and porn addiction ​after ​you confronted him. He doesn't appear to have apologized for hurting you and lying to you. He seems to think porn is to blame for everything. The web history suggests your husband likes men, penises, and trannies. I further believe he uses porn as a safe and discreet way to fulfill his sexual needs. Clearly he isn't attracted to women because he hasn't really been interested in sex with you his wife during your nine-year relationship. Short of anything illegal or physically harmful, I think people should be able to do what they want in the bedroom. But in healthy relationships. we want our partners in the bedroom with us. If he's not sexually interested in women, what he needs is to find is a man who shares the same sexuality or sexual interests.  

Porn is like a bit like alcohol, drugs, or even gambling. Heroin doesn't hunt you down at work and, at gunpoint, force you to inject it. The same applies to alcohol. You have to find it. Few are forced to drink. Your husband seems to frame his porn addiction as something forced on him or perhaps involuntary. My feeling is the only involuntary element is his attraction to men (and their penises). 

We can debate sexuality forever if we like, but that won't ever change certain facts. From what you've shared, it sounds like you are in a very unhappy, sexless marriage with a deeply disturbed man who has an addiction and who lies to you. The question is: will this man ever be what you want? Perhaps it's time to start focusing on your wants and needs...without him and his baggage. I hope that helps my friend.   

Last edited by Séan (May 8, 2017 6:10 pm)

Thank you for asking questions Lyonene. For every straight spouse like you posting here, there are hundreds offline looking for answers. Your reply got me thinking.

As I've shared in previous posts, I believe that many gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) develop narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) as a coping mechanism. Here is a long link but a brief definition of narcissism: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568. NPD is an extreme form of self-centredness, to a point that the narcissist cannot empathize with others. They are often liars, manipulators, and fakes. For example, a GIDH suffering from NPD may be a complete pr*ck to his wife at home, and yet acts loving and attentive when "onstage" in a public setting. That's who I was: an *sshole at home and yet the perfect fake everywhere else. I'd played straight my whole life so it wasn't much of a stretch to play perfect husband/father as well. But I could only tread water for so long.

​Whether gay-in-denial, gay, or straight, narcissists choose very kind and caring people as partners. These partners are sometimes referred to as empaths or co-dependents. Why am I sharing all of this? Lyonene and I exchanged a few posts about her husband who claims he's addicted to gay porn, but not a gay man. This got me thinking. This incongruity is common among narcissists who don't bat an eye when saying contradictory things like: "I watch gay porn but I'm not gay." So I'm going to provide some suggested answers to the most common excuses gay-in-denial husbands use.

​Narcissists are often forceful, dominant, and manipulative. But they all tend to do the same things and make the same mistakes. Narcs can't accept responsibility for their mistakes because perfect people don't make mistakes. This is why a GIDH will go to such great pains to explain away his gay behaviour. You'll know you're with a narcissist, if he does the following: 

​1. DENY: You'll never hear a genuine apology.
​2. DEFLECT: Blames gay behaviour on everything but himself.
3. PROJECT: Turns the tables, blaming his spouse, and then demanding even more effort from her. 

What follows are some common situations in gay/straight relationships and his narc-like reactions. I've also provided some suggested turnarounds. While the GIDH will likely try to blame you, you can very easy deflect by gently suggesting he work towards finding solutions...himself. If he continues making excuses, projecting, or he gets angry, you might be dealing with a narcissist. ​Here is a short cast list: GIDH - Gay in denial husband; SS - Straight spouse

#1 NO LONGER HAVING SEX (***IF YOU SUSPECT HE'S CHEATING, PLEASE PROTECT YOURSELF)
​SS: We haven't had sex in ____ months/years and I'm worried.
GIDH: (DEFLECTION) Well I've just been so tired recently and I have that problem with my back. We don't seem to have the time.
​SS: Strange, you make time for (TV, exercise, internet etc.) and when we have sex it takes less than ___ minutes. I have my calendar so we can set aside some time one day a week for intimacy. How about Saturday afternoons?
​GIDH: (PROJECTION) Actually I'm no longer attracted to you since you gained all that weight.
​SS: I'm so relieved you said that because it explains why you can't keep an erection. Honestly, I feel the exact same way. I'm not as attracted to you since your hair loss (or weight gain, wrinkles etc). So let's plan something fun and sexy for Saturday to rekindle our attraction like you giving me a massage. Saturday then?

#2 CAUGHT (AGAIN) WATCHING GAY PORN
​GIDH: (DEFLECTION) I'm just curious about it. It doesn't mean anything. I've never acted on it.  
​SS: Hmmm. I'm not sure many straight men watch gay porn. I always thought they'd watch straight porn. And you're not just watching, you're masturbating to it. So clearly something is off. This explains why we haven't had sex in ___ months/years. I think you should get one-on-one counselling to work through these gay feelings. I have a list of counsellors here for you: three near the house for weekend visits and three right near your office. What day next week would you like me to book your first solo appointment?
​GIDH: (PROJECTION) Well I think we need couples therapy.
​SS: That's a very good idea. But I'm not ready for joint counselling. So we can both start individual therapy for the first months. I've already made my appointment so go ahead and make yours.  

#3 CAUGHT CHATTING ONLINE OR ARRANGING HOOK UPS WITH OTHER MEN
GIDH: (DEFLECTION)​ I just chat with other guys and sometimes I meet them but nothing happens. We don't have sex.
​SS: Let's step back for a moment. So you masturbate to gay porn, you trade messages with men looking for sex on Craigslist, and now you're meeting men you've messaged on Craigslist looking for sex. But you're not having sex with them. Am I hearing all of this correctly?
​GIDH: Well yes but...
​SS: I don't think our friends and families would consider this normal behaviour for a husband and father like you. You need help to work through these feelings. I think you should get one-on-one counselling to work through these gay feelings. I have a list of counsellors here for you: three near the house for weekend visits and three right near your office. What day next week would you like me to book your first appointment?
​  
#4 I LIKE MEN BECAUSE I WAS MOLESTED BY A MAN
​GIDH: (DEFLECTION) I was molested as a child. This is why I'm attracted to men (watch porn, cheat, etc).
​SS: I'm so sorry you had to go through this trauma. If the abuse was so bad that it changed your sexuality, clearly you need one-on-one therapy to work through the pain. I have a list of counsellors here for you: three near the house for weekend visits and three right near your office. What day next week would you like me to book your first solo appointment?
​GIDH: (PROJECTION) I just need you to be more understanding, both in the bedroom and in our marriage.
​SS: I've always been here for you and I'm listening to you now. But I can't spend my entire life with a man who doesn't have sex with me is attracted to other men. That's not my definition of marriage. So let's make an appointment with a professional who can help you work through these issues. What day next week would you like me to book your first solo appointment?

An honest, caring husband owns his mistakes, acknowledges your hurt feelings, and gives you a genuine apology. A narcissist (or sociopath) denies, deflects, and blames. Getting back to reality, if he's anything like I was while in my closet he'll argue with you until he's blue in the face. Why? Because he can't be wrong. I couldn't be wrong. I didn't marry a woman to hide a secret because acknowledging that would force me to face my secret. I told myself that I married a woman because I truly loved her. I even defended it here. "I loved her" I wrote over and over again. But I now understand that was a lie. It was all lies. I became the lie. My #1 priority was hiding my sexuality because I was too scared to come out and face the consequences.

​An honest man would come out, own his mistakes, apologize, and get help. The GIDH will constantly tell you that you need to do more while always portraying himself as the victim. But just keep asking him: "Ok I hear you. But what are you going to do now? What are you going to do to change?" My co-dependent straight ex-wife lived only to fix, protect, and love me. And it almost killed her. The best thing I could do for her was get out of her life so that she could heal. Together we were just two people drowning. The above examples aren't a pathway to freedom from your terrible marriage. That takes time. But I encourage you to start facing facts, asking questions, and forcing him to own his mistakes. It's more than curiosity when he jerks off to gay porn for years. Something is fundamentally wrong with your marriage if you've never had a healthy sex life. And cheating is still cheating. He doesn't get a pass because it's with men, in saunas, via Craigslist blah blah blah.  

Hopefully this will help you understand that you as a straight spouse didn't do anything wrong. The only mistake you made was to fall in love with a gay man. He's the problem and always has been. If he's the problem, then he needs to find solutions as well...without you. I hope that helps in some small way my friends. Be well!

Last edited by Séan (May 9, 2017 6:53 pm)