Thank you Sean.  This forum has been so helpful.  I am a fixer and my heart truely breaks for what he is dealing with I pray that he can come to terms with everything.   At least I’m not getting back on the rollar coaster this time , well I may still have one toe on but it has a pretty big callus  on it !  I’ll get there.

lily wrote:

Alex1984 wrote:

 I do believe in fluidity - always have, always will. .. I will always believe that everyone is born bi-sexual.

Um, that is not what medical science says.  Not a scientist myself but read up on it - there are a few people born with chromosomal variations, such as xxy but most people are born female - xx or male - xy.  

They are saying during pregnancy there are surges of hormones in the womb, exactly how that process of releasing hormones goes is genetically inherited.  That is going to result in the differences in both physical form and expression of sexuality.  So the idea of fluidity doesn't really sit well with that if it is supposed to mean fluctuating between being a man and a woman.  And a process of expression is underway by the time you're born.

Which sex you are physically attracted to seems to me to be equally stable.

In basic terms same sex attraction puts a person at odds with their procreational self doesn't it. 
 

Bisexuality is not the same as intersex. Chromosomes establish sex, but not sexuality. Sexuality is generally not a medical, but a psychological thing. There is some statistical evidence of genetic or hormone predisposition to sexuality. HOWEVER, there are far stronger links between certain genes and, say, obesity and yet for many of those genes nurture always wins over nature when it comes to phenotype expression (i.e. whether the person is obese or not). Likewise, if we look at statistical evidence of genetic predisposition to sexuality - there are some links, but no rational scientist has ever stated that there are genes (or prenatal processes) that MAKE you gay, rather something that is likely to contribute to you becoming straight or gay. I think the only danger in pedaling "nurture" in public discourse is that people will decode they can "cure" homosexuality. You can't! It forms so so early in life and it is often impossible to track what impacted it. While it can shift and change later - it can never happen "on demand".

On bisexuality, look into psychoanalysis - in that school it is pretty much axiomatic that a child is born bisexual. Psychoanalysis is one of the most widely used therapy approaches. You are correct, many/most adults really don't feel fluid. Their sexuality developed and "stabilized" usually by the time they are out of their teen years.

The interpretation of bisexuality in psychoanalysis is, however, quite different to modern pop-psychology or to bisexuality as a sexual identification. This last point does my head in, because my husband (who identifies as bi) and I are seemingly aligned on "everyone is a little bit bisexual", but are quite different on what it means and what to do with it. I have not formulated all my thoughts on this yet, but I might one day write a research article on it... or at least a forum post haha. It's what's been preoccupying me recently quite a bit.

Last edited by Alex1984 (May 19, 2024 2:25 pm)

Hi Sean, not posting as don't have much to report yet. Was just replying on lili's comment on bisexuality vs intersex. Things have pretty much been the same. No more threesomes haha, it may have been a one-off fun for us (or not, we'll see ;)). Opening relationship is not for us, at least for now. Neither of us is keen on it - too much admin. So far, talking about his fantasies has been a way for us to connect, normalize and enjoy his "unconventional" sexuality. Toys are good, too, but in general 90% of our sex is still pretty vanila. We started planning on how we "come out" as a couple. So far only a small circle of friends and the older kids know. It is really important for me to "come out" as I am a pathological truth teller and the last few months, having to watch what I say to people has been challenging. Once the world knows, things may pick up for him. I am expecting guys might start approaching him. In the meantime, he continues the weekly therapy, including working through the same-sex child abuse episodes he experienced. Please watch what you might be tempted to say on this without having much context! I'll just say that he has been approved for free therapy for the rest of his life. Where we live, what happened to him is classified as a serious traumatic incident. We're also in fortnightly couple's therapy. Oh yeah, he is also a good husband, has always been, so kids, household help and emotional support are a given - you can stop asking, I'll tell you if it suddenly changes.

Last edited by Alex1984 (May 19, 2024 2:58 am)

Hi Alex,

I think the science on the hormone surges in the womb is pretty solid.  

Yes of course, I do understand there's a big difference between intersex and bisexuality.  Like straights, bisexuals are physically either male or female and they can form an emotional attachment to a partner of the opposite sex.  It's underlying that, in the magnetic field of sexual attraction that they are different to straight.

Believe me, straights are born straight, its just the way we are.

Genetics - no one has a problem seeing all the other stuff that makes it clear who their parents are but when it comes to sexuality suddenly nothing is clear.
 

Last edited by lily (May 19, 2024 11:22 am)