Hi Sean, 

My answer to the question is no.  No.  No.  Can I say no again?

Though you can say it is beyond your experience as a gay man, I am a straight woman, it is not beyond my experience, and I know now I need a straight man.

But when I was a young woman, if my ex had told me he was bisexual, that it made him a bit special and meant he had a choice and he had chosen me because I was his soul mate I would have felt flattered to have been chosen, believing he was my soul mate.  I would not have had the experience to know better, I could be talked into anything.

If he had said he wanted polyamory I would have known I didn't want that.  Monogamy comes with an emotionality that supports it doesn't it, you trust your partner not to stray because it hurts.  

Next question, what difference do you think it makes to the relationship where the husband is bisexual rather than straight?







 

ok so can I suggest that where the rubber meets the road IS with the straight women the bisexuals marry.

They are the ones who are blowing the whistle - 'excuse me, I'm not feeling loved here, even though my husband is my soulmate and I will stand by him through thick and thin.'

And no she is Not going to hear I'm into vagina, she is either going to get mechanical-feeling sex, limp-feeling sex, or she is going to hear all sorts of excuses or more likely all sorts of accusations, my ex accused me of putting him off because I was too affectionate.  Then he accused me of not initiating enough.  IMO it's only complicated because of all the untruth.

I didn't want the limp-feeling sex - we were both desperate not to have sex or even sleep in the same bed by middle age.

In a sense he wasn't lying - from his perspective I was too affectionate and didn't initiate the way he wanted - because what he wanted was a nice strong gay man to do him.  If he wasn't determined to keep lying he could have had it - his boyfriend went and got married too.  All of that mayhem caused in people's lives because he wanted his closet.

I would have left him in a heartbeat given the truth.  I had my own life to live.  He just kept me on a rope.

Bisexuals who don't marry straight women can say what they like.  Their closet is secure.  It's brilliant - they can date men as much as they like, play around with women as much as they like and they're just being sexually fluid.  They still expect a straight woman to accept them as if it's their god-given right.

so next question is personal Sean - can you remember how you and your wife hitched up - did you pursue her or did she pursue you?



 

That's a 2 hour podcast!  and the interviewer takes up most of it doesn't she?  Hopefully I listened far enough.  I got to where you got divorced.  So yes both young and inexperienced.  It's hard to get a read on the relationship but maybe she is quite a kind-hearted soul?  Was it all vanilla sex or did she show something of herself in the bedroom?

My ex had a girlfriend before me, she is still in the closet too.  I thought she was such a nice woman when I met her but over time I came to realise she isn't, she's just like my ex.  They lasted 3 years together and then she went off with another man and had children with him.  He was a straight and suffered like I did in my marriage.

I used to think why didn't they stay together but of course where's the fun for them in that.

Thank you for the shout out LMM. For reference, here are some links:

Your very first post : link 1
Your recent update: link 2

In reply: 

1. ....just popping in here after a long absence to say you were so right about my ex. So incredibly spot on! I’m mostly referring to my interview with you, but also the things you said in your podcast interviews in the public one and on this forum.

Thank you, although I'm sorry I was right about your (future) ex-husband. 

2. I wanted to find more good in him and see that moving out gave him the space and emotional capacity to become trustworthy. No, instead he’s falling apart. Our entire adult lives (since college/grad school) I’ve been there to prop him up and get him through stuff.

As I've shared in previous posts and in several podcast interviews, some closted/questioning husbands have personality disorders; something I always suggest straight wives discuss with a qualified mental health professional. Most personality disordered people are attracted to, or perhaps prey upon, very kind, caring, and empathetic partners. Given our past exchanges and interview, your ex-husband sounded very much like a narcsissist whereas you came across as more of an empath. Sadly, these relationships are toxically one-sided, not unlike what you shared above. So what's my point? Some relationships (like yours) make the straight wife feel like she's treading water with her husband standing on her shoulders. And she often realizes how difficult it was only after she's swimming on her own. 

3. And to make people see him as good and functional, and smooth over his relational problems. Without me, he only has his own skills. He lost his job and was sued (dishonesty, bad management skills) but they dropped the lawsuit when he left.

I can't say I'm very surprised.

4. He plays the victim of me to our kids.

Classic narcissism! 

5. It’s crazy! I started dating someone very unexpectedly 6 months ago, and he uses that to play the sad role so they [the kids] feel bad for him. Really, it’s his perfect excuse to avoid the kids! He never wanted them or got close to them, so of course he’s now moving far away and saying he won’t see them even on holidays - but he tells them it’s because I’m with someone who makes me happy and he’s too sad to see me happy. What?!? Makes no sense.

Congratulations on your new relationship! It must be a whole different experience dating a straight man. With regards to your ex-husband, good riddance. While there may be sadness with dad's departure, this move is truly a Godsend...for both you and your children. Time and distance will help all of you heal. 

6. Everything he says to them makes it look like I’m bad for dating or bad for being happy, and he’s forced to be down in the pit of despair forever because of my new, better life. He wants their pity. He wants them to feel soft and tender for his bad plight.

Playing victim this way suggests he suffers from a form of personality disorder. 

7. On the other hand, the day he moved out (13 months ago!) I started living from a deep strength I never knew I had inside me. I’m confident, clear minded, no longer always feeling guilty and flawed. It’s like you said to me, he’s radioactive and only 20% of what he says is true. He’s a professional grade deceiver! I couldn’t see it so clearly before.

Freedom!

8. I wrote a general update on here the other day. Then listened to your latest podcast and wanted to thank you for guiding me in so many ways on the forum and by doing interviews!

Thank you for sharing your experience, strength, and hope my friend. Please keep coming back and sharing. 

If any straight spouses have questions for a gay ex-husband, feel free to post them below. Be well!

Last edited by Sean01 (May 6, 2023 3:32 am)

lily wrote:

apologies if my questions were too personal, no offence intended.

I'm just going to say it again and then probably shut up because I do know that we are all going to spend the rest of our lives tiptoeing round all the, er well actually they are not the same as straight women, sorry.

Nah in a place like this debating gay vs. bi is rather like debating wither or not you should take action to protect yourself when a fire alarm has gone off. It does not matter what type of fire there is, you need to get to safety. 

Bisexual is not straight.  There might be a bit of love attraction involved but not sex.  Other than the sort of sex you can get with a dominating gay, sorry cross that out, bisexual man for whom the person is more like a sex toy.

I would agree with the first part. Bi is not straight but the second part less so. I think the problem is that a lot of straight women do not understand all the complexities that go with bisexuality or the risks that such a relationship involves. Even worse when the supposed Bi guy does not reveal this rather critical piece of information BEFORE starting the relationship.

The following is probably an incomplete list of the risks a straight women runs when it comes to but based on my own experience of gay, talking to other gay men, as well meet a few bi guys who probably had enough bisexuality to light a small light bulb.

1. The famous bi now gay latter. This is caused by gay men like myself and Sean who did not want to be gay. Lots of gay men go through a "bisexual phase". This phase wasn't about attraction to women but about my own not wanting to be gay. Mine was brief(a few weeks) and only ended with a kiss from a guy.

In my case like Sean the attract to men started as soon as puberty hit. Unlike Sean, I got into a situation where the fact that I was attracted to men forced me to deal with it before some unlucky lady showed up.  At the time I had just broken up with a high school sweet heart because it was not practical for the relationship to continue(She went away to College). I had kind of hoped we might start things up again at a latter time or that I might meet the girl of my "dreams" in college.
​
Kind of laughable now considering that all the hot dreams I have ever had in my life(and up till then) have always been with men.  My plan in life was to do what everyone else does get married(to a woman) and have kids.  In my case I went from "I need to know if I am gay" and sought out men for sex(note porn preceded this step). Well I liked the sex but then anyone might like being touched that way by anybody.  More sex, more excuses and eventually it wound up as " I will just do this until I marry" and finally I got that kiss and it was rather like that Faith Hill song.

​It was then that I understood that being able to have sex with men does not make one gay nor liking certain sex acts. What makes one gay is wanting to have sex with men and I knew what was missing and that my foolish idea of "It is just sex and it is not important" was about as realistic as time travel involving a blue box that is bigger on inside than on the outside. Oh and that situation involving being attracted to guy was the first time it wasn't 100% just sexual and the first time I realized that just running from attraction to men would not be a practical solution for the rest of my life. Luckily the ticking time bomb that was my sexuality blew at a time and in a manner where I could deal with it without the complications of being molested or being deeply religious, or being in a relationship with a women or being deeply homophobic and even then I also had to deal with a few misconceptions of what gay men are. 

2. The attraction to women might fade over time. I don't know this 100% but I suspect that for guys who don't have a large amount of attraction to women might tend to go gayer as they get older. As the attraction to men is the stronger of the two.  I suspect that as the sex drive dies down that guys who only  have a little more than my semiannual or biannual attraction to women(Thanks JJ for the laugh, and the truth) might have a harder time with being with a woman. And these days, I seem to have missed my biannual attraction to women. 

3. Guys that are truly gay might not understand that the lack of attraction to women is a problem. For a gay guy the attraction to men  often starts off as purely sexual not emotional. A gay guy might not get that cuddling, being close, and kissing is important and that passion is necessary ingredient in a relationship or that a women might want to be desired.  Gay men who have not come to terms with being gay are far more disturbed about wanting to be sexual with a man than the lack of the same for women.  

4. That the guys that are truly bi are well.....bi.  They are attracted to both and could potentially leave you for a man or woman. Some maybe able to be monogamous but the ones that are not able to be monogamous, sometimes are also not honest enough to inform the woman before getting involved. Also the woman might think the bi guy can simply ignore the homosexual side for the rest of his life(he might not be able to).  The bi ones I knew were not able or willing to ignore having heterosexual attractions or their homosexual ones.

Anyway more often than not I think that guys tend to be mostly one way(straight) or the other(gay) and that bisexuality is rare. 

Last edited by Diff I guess (May 6, 2023 10:59 pm)