Yesterday was my birthday. Yesterday is when I called a divorce attorney. Happy freaking birthday to me. 
I am not sure if you remember, but before I was married to my husband, my high school friend came to visit. He had just come out of the closet a few weeks before- and back in 2002, it was a different thing than it is now. It was a BIG DEAL. We didnt know gay people. It was almost a novelty.  For SOME reason, I had my friend staying at my then-boyfriend's house and not mine.  A few weeks after that, my gay friend and I went to an Indigo Girls concert (oh the irony, right?) and we were discussing gay-dars and for SOME reason I asked him, If I am ever dating someone who is gay, you would tell me, right?" That night my friend told me he had had an encounter with my boyfriend. I don’t remember if he wouldn’t tell me more or if I didn’t ask. But i do remember coming home and LASHING OUT at my boyfriend. And for some reason I let him talk me in to believing it was nothing- that he had bought a cock ring to use with me and didn’t know how to use it so he had asked my friend to help him put it on.
Obviously, to ME this wasn’t nothing, but the way he explained it, I was able to sorta move past it. I loved him. We were supposed to be flying to a wedding in 2 days. I didn’t want to show up alone….we just didn’t talk about it…. I feel so stupid. He proposed to me 6 months later- in front of my family. I wasn’t ready, but I wasn’t strong enough to say no.
Yesterday, I worked up the nerve to message my friend. I hadn’t spoken to him in 20 years. I told him I was in a crisis and that I needed clarity on what happened that night. We spent 2 hours on the phone. He sobbed a lot.  Apparently he has been riddled with guilt for years. Here is what I know: They hung out all night smoking and drinking with my boyfriends roommate. They were drunk. My boyfriend brought my friend sheets and blankets and my friend went to sleep on the couch. My boyfriend went upstairs to go to bed and came downstairs a few minutes later. Woke my friend up. Asked for help with the cock ring. My friend said they had to move to the kitchen becuase my boyfriends roommate (VERRRRY straight guy) was there. Said he didn’t know how to use it. My friend was a baby gay. He didn’t either. They figured it out together. Suffice it to say, that’s not where things stopped. They performed oral sex on each other. I am sure there was more before it got to that point. Had to have been. My friend kept saying that it is fuzzy. But I told him, I don’t need details. Were these sex acts performed? Yes. They were. You 100% know you performed oral sex on each other? Yes. And it was to completion. My boyfriend then went upstairs to bed. My friend went to sleep on the couch. They did not sleep in the bed together. Maybe you can blame what they did on alcohol. I can hear my husband say that now…. But apparently, the next morning in the cold light of day when everyone had slept everything off and there was no alcohol, my boyfriend came downstairs and asked my friend to come upstairs.  To our bed. To my bed. And he did. And they did things. And then my husband asked my friend to penetrate him. And he did. And then I came home the next day and he had sex with me in that same bed. And lied by omission to me for weeks. And then lied again when I confronted him with the information I had about an “encounter.” And then lied and lied and lied to me for years. And then he lied to me for 20 years.  And he lied to me about it again 2 days ago.
This is not a case of a man that doesn’t know who he is. I was so full of sympathy. I loved him and felt sad for him. This is someone who did this to me on purpose. He stole my life from me. In the end, all we have is time and he stole mine. He stole my chance at real happiness and put his own interests over my own.  He cared only about himself. He brought children into this- knowing he was lying to us all.
I am not so naïve (now) as to think that he had one sexual encounter 20 years ago and then had a little dabble with oral sex (that he didn’t like and didn’t do to completion) with this guy this year and didn’t like it. If he can spend one night with my friend and do all he did, what is he doing with my neighbor over a year and a half.  7-8 times, yeah right. And what has he done all those years in between?  20 years of questions. I now know that he has been looking me in the eye and lying to me.  Not lying to himself and because of that cant help lying to me. He 100% knows he's been lying to me.
I asked my friend, did he seem like he had done this before? My friend said, honestly, it was one of my first times. I wouldnt have known. But in my heart, I know that you dont just have a cock ring at your house. I would imagine you wouldnt ask someone to penetrate you on your first night trying something new. 
I cannot figure out where he is getting his fix. He is seriously not internet savvy. He doesn’t even know how to change his profile picture. He wouldn’t go to a video store because he is too well known in town. It would be all over the paper. He doesn’t understand how to use apps and his smart phone. His search history doesn’t show anything (and he would NEVER know how to delete things). I thought for a while that it only happened because it was so convenient- first instance, in his house with someone I delivered to him. Second instance in my house with a neighbor I introduced (any chance anyone can see why I feel so STUPID). Where else is this happening? Was he in my bed with this man?  It doesn’t change anything to know. I already know what I know. But I am searching for something to put my feet on. Some way to find solid ground. In the absence of truth, I want answers to stand on.
Nothing in my life is solid.  Nothing is true.
I called my friend yesterday because I had therapy yesterday. I wanted to be able to go to her if I learned something. I am glad I did.  My therapist was so shocked she was basically on the floor.  I chose her because she has a specialty of working with LGBTQ people so I thought she would be a good resource. When I went in to meet with her I was numb. Barely reacting. Just retelling the story.  As I told her and watched her incredulity, I realized just how bad this was. Surely she has seen something like this before. No. She has not. Before this I thought he was a sad person. Now I think he is evil. But that cant be true because I loved him? But how can it not be true? No one can look someone in the eye and lie so easily and not be evil.
I said to her, I am not mad at you or the other therapists, but I need you to know that I have felt gaslit by all of you too. I have all of this proof and he kept saying and you all kept saying 1 and 1 doesn’t have to equal 2 if he says that it doesn’t.  And I’m looking at it and so MINDF&CKED because how can it NOT.  I have felt CRAZY. She said (and I could tell she was probably not supposed to say this to me and was trying not to breach some kind of ethical thing), “I need to tell you that I am trained to not put words in other people’s mouths. I am trained to accept that what people are telling me is the truth and how to work with that truth, maybe to help them understand the truth better. How to work and deal with the truth. But I want to tell you that if I were having this conversation with my sister or my best friend, I would be saying things differently.  I hope you can understand what I am saying.”  Yes, I said. I was already ready to leave. I cannot do this.  She said, we need to get you out of there as soon as we can.
And im so USED to this that I was like, its really not that bad. Its the same as it was yesterday. I need to get a strategy before I do anything. I thought this could be amicable, but now I don’t know. Now I don’t know who he is. Will he try to destroy me? I thought he was a nice guy. Now I don’t know. I need to tread carefully. I called 3 attorneys yesterday. I thought I would feel sick doing it, but I didn’t. I am just numb. It doesn’t even hurt anymore.
And so I came home and we had a nice dinner and my husband gave me 10000 presents and diamonds and we ate cake and my life is just a f^cked up disaster that I just pretend in. Just like he does. The only difference is I didnt know I was pretending until now. 
 

Last edited by ImSoConfused (November 15, 2022 9:06 am)

Sean,
What do you mean "We can also add sounding to that list." What is that and how do I know that we add it to a list?  Sorry. I'm so stupid. I Google it and it just says things like some people think gay people sound effeminate.

Everyone who's been through this:

I'm playing detective now for my own case. Not to find out more info but to make my case steonger:

I've secured all texts messages from the most recent guy. Weirdly, he deleted texts between he and one of my gay best friends. I initially went through those texts on the first night but didn't go far enough back maybe? Why else would he delete? I've downloaded apps to get those texts back but you have to root the phone and I don't know if I want to do that. He didn't delete the ones with the affair guy. Archived them. Maybe he wanted to revisit them....like a murderer keeps trophies. Regardless, I have them.

I've downloaded search history, but don't see anything in there. He's not tech savvy enough to delete search history.

Does anyone know how to search page history? This is different from search history.

I've exported all emails but there's nothing. This i believe he'd be better at covering. there is an email address I don't know the password to... Maybe there's stuff there. Probably. It's the oldest one- made before we married. If I can get in, what do I search for? I've typed in gay, escort, porn... I'm too naive to know what else.

I THINK I've got Google maps history. I have to dig through.

I've searched for previously downloaded apps in case something comes up. There's nothing.

He has auto backup for pictures on his phone that he doesn't know about- nothing there. It goes back years and there's nothing

What else am I missing? What other info do I need?

Lord I hate doing this. I feel so sneaky. And mean. And then I feel CRAZY because that's what he did! There's no reason to feel guilty about that. I guess I'll talk about that in therapy today.

Harlow wrote:

I am having a very difficult time and hoping to get some insight from others. My husband and I have been together for 20 years. There have been absolutely NO red flags. We had an amazing sex life until recently, when he started having erectile dysfunction that we suspected was due to some recent medical issues. (He has hypertension and has had 2 surgeries, including an epididectomy due to cysts in his testicles.) He can perform with me about 50% of the time and always when using viagra. He has a history of porn use. (I'll note that it was always girl-on-girl.) This bothered me but wasn't a deal breaker. However, I recently discovered that he had a grindr account that he had been using (from what I could find on his Google account history) for about 3 months. This began during a mental health crisis on my part in which I was very distant, both emotionally and sexually. We were social distancing due to family health issues and covid so we were very isolated. He says he is not gay, but felt very lonely during this time and used grinder only to chat because he felt lonely. His reasoning is that chatting with men didn't feel like cheating as bad and he knew he wouldn't be tempted to take it further than just an online chat, as he might if he was talking to women. We decided to try to move past it and he has been amazing. He deleted the account, gives me all his passwords, not even any porn use that I have found since then. The problem for me now is that with this knowledge, I cant attribute his sexual problems to medical issues anymore. When he can't perform, I immediately think it's because he'd rather be with a man and get very emotional. We both avoid sex now and our relationship is suffering. I don't know how to move past it and I'm having a hard time believing he is not at least bi and questioning if he is still attracted to me. I don't know what to do.

Can I just ask how do you straight spouses manage to find the evidence? I have no 100% evidence but I highly suspect. I’m scared of getting caught snooping.

I’m still here reading all of your posts. Thanks Sean, ImSoConfused and Pinklady. I can really identify with you ladies. Isn’t it strange how although we have concrete proof of some pretty messed up sexual activity, we still question it all? You are not alone. I’m here, swimming in the bullshit with you. I’ve thought a lot about this. In my case, it’s almost impossible for me to reconcile his actions to the man I thought he was for so many years. For 32+ years I would have said he was one of the most honest men I know. Isn’t that crazy? I suppose that’s how he was able to get a away with what he did for so long, right under my nose.

Coming to terms with the reality has been the most difficult part for me. Yesterday, I was driving along and a thought hit me like a brick wall.. I thought about the 19 year old that my husband had been with twice. Once was with a threesome and the second time my husband invited the boy to one of our rental properties. (He also invited him to participate in hotel fun with another cross dresser. This didn’t happen because I found out.) My husband had always described the encounters as being brief- he received blowjobs only. No actual penetration. No kissing. Because the thought of this happening at all is so painful, especially with a 19 year old, I have found that I have not allowed myself to really envision what actually could have happened. I have face pictures of this boy. I have naked pictures of this boy. I have pictures of this boy with my husbands penis in his mouth. Yesterday I imagined my husband lovingly touching the boy. I imagined him having anal sex with the boy.  I’m not sure why that hasn’t occurred to me before now.  Maybe because there is so much that I do know about and have pictures of that’s unsettling. I believe this is called pain shopping. 
All of this is unbelievably traumatic. It’s criminal. Don’t you think? Sean say he doesn’t believe most of these men are evil. My husband has done one of the worst things you can do to your spouse- over and over, without guilt. And now behaves like ImSoConfused’s husband does. You would think he’s the best husband in the world. So cheerful and smiling.  This morning he bought out of town concert tickets for me to see a band that I’ve loved forever. What an asshole. ;) 

Here’s something that someone posted in a FB group: 

A Narcissist’s Prayer

That didn’t happen, 
And if it did, 
It wasn’t that bad, 
And if it was, 
It wasn’t a big deal, 
And if it is,
It’s not my fault, 
And if it was, 
I didn’t mean it, 
And if I did...
You deserved it. 

carnation2976 wrote:

What does the phrase: “I love you but I can’t give you what you deserve” imply? Am I overthinking that he might be gay and can’t be in a romantic relationship with me? He ended our otherwise good relationship by saying that with no further explanation. Do you think if he was really questioning his sexuality, he would’ve admitted that to me during the break up? Or was this enough of a hint.

My partner has said this to me too. “I can’t give you what you deserve, you deserve a better man” WTF.