Thank you lily, beastie, and LMM for sharing. In response to LMM's post: 

1. Sean, I appreciate your reply. I agree with all the cautions and reasons behind them - my own therapy and my adult children of alcoholics support group are the reasons I'm able to detach from my ex and really take care of myself now! I've got really caring women helping me through the day to day stuff. I've got a sponsor who tells me bluntly and lovingly if I'm playing the old games! It's been so freeing to have good boundaries.

Well done. 

2. Lately I sing along to the radio with my kids in the car all the time, and I never once did that their whole lives. The other day I said, "Hey, let's make popcorn and watch a family movie!' even when they'd used their screen time - the old, rigid, religious me never did that because it would show my kids that rules can change.

Beautiful. I'm so happy for you and your kids. 

3. Mostly, we can have fun because my ex isn't here being depressed and upset, and when he comes for dinner on the weekend he's so relaxed and grounded. 

Cautiously optimistic. 

4. I think the point I was making was that this is a totally different scenario than the double life, cheating, trying to have both sides type of partner. Yes, there was major deception because he believed his conversion therapists and pastors that marrying a nice girl and not telling her the truth was his ticket to being saved. So much abuse toward me grew out of that awful lie.

Agreed, however, there are evangelical husbands who do disclose their "same sex attraction." 

5. But I still believe he didn't cheat or hide online accounts and all that.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think your future ex-husband was this tormented simply from furtively glancing at hot dads down at the beach. While I could be totally wrong, I reckon his toxic self-hatred was born of watching gay porn and/or actually hooking up with men. But again I'm just some idiot posting online and arguably you know him much better than I do. 

6. He was a mess if he saw a good looking guy because it showed he wasn't fixed yet. It sent him to repenting and depression.

Tragic. 

7. He still doesn't think he'd ever have any relationships in the future, though I hope he heals enough for that.

How sad. Hopefully he will eventually deprogram to a point that he will be able to have meaningful relationships with other men. But I reckon he's still years away from those scenarios. 

8. When you believe God is monitoring your thoughts and finding terrible sins in the most normal ones, then you'll never step out of line in behavior. Because your abnormal, bad thoughts are going to be punished unless you get right with God by prayer and serving Him! Unfortunately, that same system fails to have consequences for mean, unkind, even abusive behavior.

I'd argue that his faith doesn't excuse everything, particularly how abusive he was with you and how he chose to neglect his kids. You were also brainwashed by the same thinking, however, you weren't abusive with your husband nor kids. 

9. You're not seen as dirty before God if you mistreat your wife and kids, if you're reading your Bible and praying and doing all the church stuff enough. That's why I was told to stop complaining and be more grateful for my husband when I told church women what it was like at home. They said I must be having rebellious thoughts, and Satan was making my ex act badly to me because I was secretly rebellious toward my husband. 

What a terrible, cult-like religion. I'm so glad you got out. 

10. The motivations in this whole scenario have to be opposite the motivations behind the abuse and lies in the cheating, double life scenario. In the Evangelical one, someone is desperately trying to cut themselves apart and remove the evil, be it drinking, porn, SSA, whatever. They're creating tons of damage to their family by cutting themselves up, not by trying to have it all or lashing out in anger toward their family. They're trying hard to be good and holy, but never getting there.

Based on our previous discussions, I'd argue that your future ex-husband knew when to act in a kind and caring way when he was performing for others. If this is accurate, clearly he understood on some level the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If for example he was able to maintain a job, this means he could act appropriately with others. I'm trying to express that on some level he chose to act poorly with you and the kids. If it was "beyond his control" as you suggest, then he would have been lashing out at everyone, not just his family.  

11. I think the recovery looks different because there's a huge relief now, in this feeling of "Wait, I'm not evil and God isn't going to strike me?" No need to lash out at the family now, but it's a time to stop and get some peace to rewire your beliefs and lifestyle. 

I agree, however, I'm glad you have a counsellor and recovery sponsor who will help you maintain boundaries as you move towards divorce; a divorce that I believe he is firmly against. Thank you again for sharing your journey LMM. For every straight spouse who posts here, I reckon there are hundreds following your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (May 7, 2022 4:38 pm)

Thank you for writing Crystal. I'm afraid that I didn't quite understand your post so I'm taking the liberty of responding to your original post to provide some context. Here we go: 

1. Is it possible that trauma can make someone suppress and not accept that they are gay? I do not understand trauma but I do know that sexual trauma is very complex. My GXH [gay ex-husband] experienced childhood sexual trauma from another male.

Believe it or not, many closeted or formerly closeted husbands claim "sexual abuse made me gay." This is something I discuss during two podcasts with Our Path: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath skip to 1H:03MINS:00
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath 00:45MINS:00

As I shared in the above interviews, I tell straight wives (or ex-wives) that they don't have to automatically believe pathologically dishonest husbands who claim "sexual abuse made me gay." If your husband lied for most of your marriage, there is a very real possibility that he's lying about this to gain sympathy and somehow explain away gay porn and cheating. I only know a handful of out gay men who were sexually abused as children and they all say the same thing. "I was a gay boy who was abused. The abuse didn't make me gay." So while any form of sexual abuse or trauma is barbaric and (thankfully) illegal, I urge straight spouses to gage what he's saying based on how honest he was over the course of your relationship. When interacting with straight spouses, I often sidestep the issue of childhood abuse to focus on the question of her husband's honesty. I urge them to grade their husbands on an honesty scale of 0-10 with ten (10) being totally honest and zero (0) meaning he was a pathological liar. If your husband scores roughly 2/10 on the honesty scale, then you're justified in believing 20% of what he says about his sexuality. Thus 80% of what he's saying about cheating, porn, and abuse is likely fabricated or at the very least exaggerated.      

2. All his life he has learned to suppressed this trauma.

If the trauma actually happened...

3. Him being attracted to the same sex brought on a fear for him that he was not maybe understanding and ready to face. Now at over 40 he started therapy and he is now able to unpack and discover these feelings.

I'm glad he's getting professional help, however, I don't think it's appropriate for him to share all of this with you following your divorce. You two are no longer a couple and he is no longer your responsibility. 

4. He went through the motions of marriage because this is what he “thought” he was supposed to do. I see now that he is having a hard time when I tell him that I feel lied and betrayed. He says it was not a lie or deceit because during our marriage he was doing what he  “thought” he was supposed to do which was marry a woman.  What are your thoughts on this?

If I'm reading this correctly: he's making himself out to be victim while completely ignoring your pain. So my thoughts are he's a selfish, toxic *sshole. 

5. I feel  and know that he could very well have suppressed the trauma and this makes sense. Could the trauma however still be subconsciously there through his actions?

If your husband lied about his sexuality your entire marriage there is the very real possibility that he's lying about trauma. So no, you don't have to blindly believe everything he says, particularly when it comes to explaining away his homosexuality. 

6. Sean help me answer this please. My GXH has recently come out to me. I’m still in the processing stage of it being that it just happened a week ago.

I'm so sorry you're going through this although some day you may come to appreciate that he said "I'm gay." Many closeted ex-husbands never come out. 

7. I told him how this new made me feel. In our marriage I felt like I was a Hostage......Lies .......Selfish....Deceit. He seems to be very triggered that these are the feelings I have towards him in our marriage now that he has shared he is gay.

I have two reactions to this: first, I hope that you are in therapy. And second, an inability to acknowledge other's emotional pain suggests he may suffer from a personality disorder. I would encourage you to discuss all of this with a mental health professional who can hopefully help you detach with love from your troubled ex-husband. 

8. Is this a common behavior for someone to have towards the straight spouse when newly coming out?

Yes. The newly out man is often referred to as a "baby gay" because he goes through a period of child-like self-centredness. This is also called "gay adolescence." If your ex-husband only talks about himself, constantly portrays himself as a victim, and totally ignores your feelings, I see little reason to remain in contact with him.    

9. I feel like I’m fully entitled to feel what I feel and so is he, but asking if this is a common thing to experience when newly coming out? 

Your feelings and, by extension, your healing matter. If your ex-husband is incapable of acknowledging your emotional pain then I reckon it's time to detach (with love) from this toxic man. While I don't have a lot of information, I don't think your ex-husband is in any way capable of helping you heal from your broken marriage. So perhaps it's time to stop letting this emotionally blind man drive the bus. Time to kick his *ss to curb, take the wheel, and fill your bus with caring people who love and affirm you unconditionally. 

I hope that helps my friend but please feel free to post again. Be well! 

Sean wrote:

8. Is this a common behavior for someone to have towards the straight spouse when newly coming out?

Yes. The newly out man is often referred to as a "baby gay" because he goes through a period of child-like self-centredness. This is also called "gay adolescence." If your ex-husband only talks about himself, constantly portrays himself as a victim, and totally ignores your feelings, I see little reason to remain in contact with him. 

Thanks Sean for your responses, lots of good information. Can you expand more on the above or any suggested readings on this? This is very interesting to me.
 

Crystal_H wrote:

Sean wrote:

8. Is this a common behavior for someone to have towards the straight spouse when newly coming out?

Yes. The newly out man is often referred to as a "baby gay" because he goes through a period of child-like self-centredness. This is also called "gay adolescence." If your ex-husband only talks about himself, constantly portrays himself as a victim, and totally ignores your feelings, I see little reason to remain in contact with him. 

Thanks Sean for your responses, lots of good information. Can you expand more on the above or any suggested readings on this? This is very interesting to me.
 

I’m a guy who went through the special hell of having his ex-wife come out. Her gay adolescence was horrendous, largely defined by her ignoring me and our kids. Whenever I expressed concern or had an emotional response, she would try to redefine the entire situation as my fault.  To help her through her “situation”, she would go out to bars with her girlfriend and leave me with the kids. This happens a lot. I’m not sure there’s anything to read on this, but I recommend connecting with other straight partners so you can appreciate that this is common, and most importantly, not your fault.

Thank you for sharing Sweeetlisa. In reply: 

1. I found a gay user email address bbc4wbbtyrone@******.com in my husband's email account.  It stands for big black cock for white bare back tyrone (his username). 

Wow! That must have been quite the shock. I hope you're ok following this discovery. For those readers who don't know, the term "bareback" means sex without a condom. 

2. I researched on grinder and a bunch of other hookup/gay apps and there seems to be many men out there on the down low seeking other men for sex. 

Correct. I should add that there are also many straight apps, message boards, and websites for heterosexual men and women also looking for sex/hook ups. The gay community doesn't have a monopoly on cheating as straights do it as well...and in greater numbers I might add. Some other Grindr-like gay sex apps are: Scruff and Hornet to name a few.  

3. It's quite unsettling the amount of men using these apps.  On the one hand I suspect my husband is bisexual or gay (in the closet) strait acting. 

It's certainly possible. If your husband enjoys sex with women (namely you) and men, then that suggests he's bisexual. If however he's never demonstrated an interest in sex with you nor any other women, then he might be a closeted gay husband. 

4. On the other hand it seems as though men are sexual human beings perhaps seeking like minded sexual beings for fun (and not having to deal with emotions and women).  Almost like men simply want to enjoy raunchy sex and keep it simple,, easier to deal with man only with penis/anal penetration to receive the ultimate prostate climax, something a woman can't do as easily and on a with with a high sexual drive.  What are your thoughts on this? 

In my experience, the gay (male) community is indeed very sexual and gay men have, on average, more sexual partners than heterosexuals. HOWEVER, it's a myth that the gay community is just one constant disco and drug-fueled orgy. As I shared in a recent "Our Path" podcast, the closeted, middle-aged, dad-bod husband has a very hard time finding sexual partners. So when a closeted husband says, "It just happened" when he's caught cheating, that's a lie. Yes a young, hung, Adonis of a gay man can find a quick and dirty hook up, but the average closeted husband can sometimes spend days or even weeks messaging and sharing photos just to arrange a single hook up. With regards to women being unable to provide prostate stimulation, I disagree. A strap on, vibrator, or butt plug could easily do the job. The difference is that the closeted husband wants to do all of these things with another man. The closeted husband doesn't want to do anything sexual with his wife simply because he's not attracted to women. 

5. I hope this is not a dumb question. 

Not at all. 

6. It's just that my husband seems so manly, strait acting. he doesn't know I know about his email. 

Gay men come in all shapes, sizes, ages, and levels of masculinity. Most of my close friends are also very "straight acting" so few of us fit the "angel wings, booty shorts, and glitter t*ts on a Pride float" cliché...often the way scared, closeted husbands see the gay community. In fact, most of the closeted husbands I write about in my posts were largely "straight presenting," enough so to marry women and have children.  

7. I file for divorce next week, I don't plan on telling him will only cause fights, lies, drama.  Easier to be done with this. 

Understood. I hope I've answered your questions but please feel free to write again. Good luck with your separation/divorce. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (May 19, 2022 4:37 pm)