rb, I'm so sorry you find yourself here -- welcome.  We've all been there.  I do want to weigh in on one thing: depending on the law in your jurisdiction, you may be able to get out of that prenup.  You really need to have a lawyer advise you, as and when you need to know the answer to this question.  But a contract that was induced by fraud is void.  If he didn't disclose his sexuality to you before you signed the prenup, it's possible the contract can be thrown out on the grounds of fraud and bad faith.

I'm so sorry for everything you're going through.  It's very hard dealing with the way kids perceive the situation; people often fail to see how impossibly trapped kids feel.  They feel guilty for keeping a secret they knew would hurt you, but they also were never given a choice in the matter.  It's a toxic family dynamic, and the only way to clean it up is for everybody to be honest with everybody else.  I'm glad you're at least on honest footing with them.

Thank you walkbymyself and rb for writing. In reply to rb's post: 

1. About ten years ago, I discovered that my husband was having sex with other men. I struggled to understand, but over time I decided to stay. At the time, my children were 11 and 5. Now, our kids are 16 and 22, and recently they told me that they have known for quite some time.

I'm so sorry you're struggling my friend but thank you nonetheless for bringing up how gay/straight marriages often negatively affect our children. I'm not surprised that your kids have known about dad's "exploring" for years because closeted/questioning husbands leave a lot of clues. I've often written that toxic marriages are like second-hand smoke, meaning that our children are exposed to them despite our best efforts to protect them. 

2. They are both angry and depressed, and I feel as if I failed my kids because I thought we were doing a good job hiding from them. My son is gay (22), and he is not my husband's biological child. They have a "complicated" relationship.

Understandable. Most closeted/questioning husbands have complicated relationships with openly gay friends/family. 

3. My husband, who is 70 years old, still maintains that he is not gay or bisexual because he has never had a romantic relationship with other men.

This is a common excuse and it's bullsh*t, something I discussed here S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath. Skip to 4:00 where I discuss this excuse. 

4. He says he is a lady's man and always will be, yet he enjoys sex with men.

If he enjoys sex with both men and women, then he's bisexual. 

5. On a side note, he was abused by a family member as a child.

Again I'm calling bullsh*t on cheating husbands who claim "childhood abuse made me gay." I discussed this in the following podcast S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath at the 1h03min point.  

6. I'm 48 and lost. I have dealt with this situation alone for the last ten years. My family and friends are very traditional and heterosexual, so there is no chance of sharing this information.

I'm glad you found this forum and would recommend you go through "Our Path's" first aid kit. I'd also urge you to reach out to "Our Path" hotline for support Personal Support - OurPath. 

7. His family is even more traditional than mine, and he had a sister who contracted HIV from a gay husband. His brother-in-law committed suicide after his sister left him.

Tragic. I think we can start using "dysfunctional" rather than "traditional."  

8. My husband is fully supportive of his sister and her predicaments, and I wonder if he makes any connection to our situation, or better, my situation.

Probably not as most closeted/questioning husbands lack self awareness and empathy. 

9. Am I playing the victim? Sometimes I question myself as well. I should just shut up and keep pretending as I have been for the last ten years, but lately, my heart aches.

You're just sharing about your toxic marriage so, no, you don't come across as a victim. With regards to staying married, that's your decision. 

10. I just started therapy; my husband does not know. My therapist says that I'm a very compassionate person. So what? What does all this compassion get me? I'm still in pain, and my kids are a mess.

I think it's a red flag when wives are afraid to tell philandering husbands they are in therapy. If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest asking your therapist if this is an emotionally abusive relationship. You might also wish to discuss co-dependency. 

11. Sometimes, it feels like he is oblivious to my struggles. Just because I decided to stay, it does not mean that I don't struggle.

Agreed. 

12. He does have a healthy sex drive and wants to have a sexual life with me, which is another struggle because I think he is gay, but he wants and enjoys having sex with me. I can't wrap my head around this. I'm always afraid I'm going to contract an STD or HIV. He says he is always careful; he is a physician, so he knows the ins and outs of STDs, etc. Even so, I'm always concerned. 

No marriage is worth dying for my friend and cheating husbands shouldn't dismiss very legitimate concerns about STDs/STIs. I think it's more than reasonable to get tested and only practice only safe sex (meaning condoms) going forward.   

13. I am financially dependent, so divorce would be something difficult. I hear people saying, get your ducks in a row before thinking about divorce. Well, I have NO ducks. We married with a prenup, so I would walk away empty-handed, which doesn't matter anymore at this point in my life. I'm so EXHAUSTED.

I'm so sorry you and your children are suffering. As I shared in the above podcast, I don't believe we can put a dollar figure on our mental health and well-being.  

14. I did not sign up for this; I understand I had the choice to leave before, but my children were little, and I was naive and ignorant. 

Question: if you could go back, would you do things differently?  

15. I don't want to paint a picture of an evil husband.

The word that comes to mind is more "*sshole" than evil. Between the cheating and complete disregard for your sexual/emotional health, he sounds like a world-class pr*ck. You deserve better. 

16. He supports me in my studies. I just graduated with a BA in Literature and writing, and he paid for my and my son's college education. 

As a husband and father should. He doesn't get a medal for doing what all dads do. 

17. What is throwing me into crisis is that now that my children know and are aware of it, I am having a hard time staying.

Understandable. 

18. Another thing is that my husband is 22 years older than me; there is always a conflict. I have a more open relationship with my kids. He is very goal-oriented and a perfectionist. He is also very successful career/financial-wise, and he has high expectations for our children. Still, he does not know how our secret had impacted our kids emotionally and psychologically.

Again, closeted/questioning men often struggle with empathy. 

19. I'm afraid to tell him that our daughter knows. First, he will blame me (he seldom takes ownership of any wrongdoing). Just recently, he owned that he did me wrong and should have told me before we got married, and that came after I went ballistic because I found a hotel key card on the passenger seat of his car. I'm teaching my daughter to drive, and we use his car. I got mad because I had to cover his tracks on top of everything. My son walked into my bathroom to get cotton swabs and found his dildo in the bathtub.

If you and your children live in fear of his reaction and/or the possibility of retaliation, this sounds like an abusive marriage. Let's not forget that your husband is at fault here.   

20. I still debate letting everything out in the open because I know it will be devastating to him.

Pardon my French but f*ck him. What about the devastation you and your children have experienced because of his cheating/secrets? 

21. My daughter asked me to wait until she is off to college, which will be next year (fall 2023). She said she did not know how to handle the situation with him, and she cried and said that she knew she is being selfish by asking this, but still, she begged.

This makes my heart ache...but it's also a cautionary tale for any straight spouses who are considering staying together "for the kids." Living with dad's secret is often devastating for our children. 

22. I encouraged both of them to do therapy, she asked me to wait until summer because it is her junior year and she is very stressed; she said it is so painful that she cannot handle school and dealing with this at the same time. She is a straight-A student and has a great GPA. I don't want to mess it up for her. She agreed to go to therapy once school is over.

Understood. 

23. My son, on the other hand, is failing college. He gained 30-40 pounds and wants to drop off school. I'm not sure I can wait anymore. If I tell him [husband] that we all know, I'll be betraying my daughter, and If I don't tell him, I will explode/implode.

I think you can openly discuss all of this with your kids, your therapist, and perhaps trusted friends who aren't under your husband's influence/control. I don't see the need to discuss all of this with your cheating husband at the moment.  

24. I need enlightenment. Someone to talk to. Someone who has gone through something similar. He had other relationships with women...

Again I'd suggest reaching out to "Our Path" via their hotline. If you'd prefer free and yet confidential resources, you might wish to try coda.org (Online Meetings - CoDA.org), a 12-step association for co-dependents.   

25. and he admitted in one of his previous relationships his partner knew and actually supported him. 

To me this reads like a warning along the lines of, "Cross me and I'll find someone else." Again, I can't stress what an *sshole this man sounds like. 

26. We have been married for 19 years, and I had no red flags before, but once the cat was out of the bag, he is having his outings, as my daughter calls, and I know, it hurts me, but I'm still here.

Of course it hurts and it sounds like your cheating husband is completely ignorant to your pain and the risk of STDs/STIs. Jerk. 

27. If anything sounds confusing, just ask me. I am bawling my eyes out as I am writing this. It has been such a lonely road. 

I'm so sorry you're suffering but you're no longer alone my friend. Again I'd urge you to contact "Our Path", start your own thread on this forum, and perhaps participate in some CODA Zoom meetings Online Meetings - CoDA.org. I strongly believe that connection remains a huge part of my own recovery. Please feel free to post here as often as you like and/or ask additional questions. Be well. 

Last edited by Sean (April 8, 2022 2:28 pm)

To Face Oneself Fully.

He, or she, who cannot face themselves fully
Will spend their days trying to manipulate reality
To fit around what is being avoided

What is avoided in life does not go away
That’s not how it works
What is avoided plays itself out
In unconscious patterns
In behaviors that have a destructive element
And in ways that draw attention to themselves

Because that which is being avoided
Is trying to grab attention
So it can be loved and come home
Everything is searching for wholeness

To face oneself fully is not a one time deal
It’s a path that unfolds the rest of one’s life
There is such a richness to this path
Such a depth and wisdom gathered
It is the path of maturity

And all we have to do is stop running
Turn around, and never turn away again.

- Kaviji

I do not remember where I found this - was it here!;) At first I thought it was about my husband, but we spouses also need to face ourselves fully.

And, unfortunately, we have to take  major life steps in the face of someone lying to us - when they really aren’t supposed to be - and maybe to themselves. Super hard but I think a healthy path. If you are like me, quit blaming yourself. It’s hard to know what to do when they are lying to you, and are very good liars. Good luck with it. I’m trying too!

Last edited by RoseColoredGlasses (April 11, 2022 12:52 pm)

Thanks Rose. I'm going to do my best to respond but have to admit that I might not fully understand your post. Here goes: 

1. And Sean - I was thinking on the “did you ever love her” question and don’t you think the answer might be that trite but true “you can never love someone if you don’t love yourself” notion?

I agree. I'm often asked, "Did you love your ex-wife?" and my answer is sadly "No, I didn't love my wife." I loved her for the part she played in this pretend life I'd created as a "straight" man. I loved her as a beard, as cover, and as an enabler. However, once I came out and was accepted by my friends & family, I no longer needed her. So I moved on. I don't believe I truly loved her because we're no longer close and I really don't stay in touch with her. It's sad, tragic, and I regret misleading her. But that's my truth. I discussed all of this here S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath at around the 36 minute mark. I've been asked this question A LOT over the years. And I think it's because straight spouses want to feel like their marriages actually meant something...even if their husbands were questioning/closeted. Based on years of posting here, I believe that a closeted husband's (platonic) affection is conditional upon his wife remaining compliant, silent, and only if she does not question his sexuality. In my experience, the relationship turns abusive when the straight spouse dares to challenge him about his sexuality, their sexless marriage, and any gay porn/cheating because he needs to bully her back into submission/compliance. 

2. And sorry if intrusive but guessing: oh my goodness of course you don’t miss her - who would miss this closet stuff?!

I miss being with my kids full-time and being part of a family. But I don't miss my closet, nor the conflict this created with my then wife. 

3. I do love my husband, no question, but if we split up I will not miss him. This is excruciating; pretty much the opposite of living out loud.

This perfectly sums up how complicated these relationships can be. 

4. That said, I still have to get my son to a safer place before we can split.

What exactly do you mean by "safer place"?

5. While I agree about the orientation issues being hurtful to the kids, this is the only structure they know, and with my son’s basic challenges and the pandemic, I think I have to triage. And run. Outside. A lot. Thank you for doing this! R.

Thank you for sharing. Be well! 

A little pushback here, Sean.  

You say that you loved your wife for the part she played in enabling your pretend life, and as a beard and cover.  But as your ex didn't know she was living a pretend life, she herself wasn't an enabler.   And in addition, didn't this "love" also come accompanied by resentment?  I mean, yes, she was part of your cover, but didn't you also resent having to have that cover?  

 Next push: I would venture to say that a marriage doesn't just turn abusive when a wife "dares to challenge" her closeted/in denial spouse.  It was abusive all along.  Deceiving your wife about your sexuality is a form of abuse (See, Minwalla, "The Secret Sexual Basement").  To me it's the difference between covert and overt abuse.  But it's abuse all the same.