Hi,

One question: are the gay community sympathetic to what you did? 

My Great Uncle (by 'Great' he was born when homosexuality was illegal) is gay and I know for a fact holds women in such high regard and would be the first to say what you did was wrong. I find accusations that all gay men are misogynists and view us as domestic labour and something they are automatically entitled to really really hurtful and damn right wrong. When writing to your I feel so protective of him. I'm sorry if it is clear in my writing. When I told my Lesbian friend what had happened to me she simply turned round and said; "all I can say is... NOT RIGHT". Her Mother and Father rejected her, she didn't get it good! I know out members of the community are really tired and fed up of being made to feel like closeted members "dirty little secret". I think they get abused as badly as us. To be frank, I think if you aren't prepared to be out and proud, and willing to walk into a restaurant with them on your arm, you have no right to touch them and use their bodies for your sexual gratification. Period. They are vulnerable people too like us. And it bores me when men who, let's me honest fucked up, make out that out members who came out at a young age are 'less gay then them' or 'got it worse in regards to the family'. It's just not true! My Great Uncle would of loved children and made the most incredible Father. I see him as living a true life of sacrifice. He's a god damn hero! He loves women so much he would never marry one. Olly Alexander (Singer in the UK) wrote a song called "Sanctify", it's about the issue of closeted men using their bodies albeit claiming to be straight all along and making them feel like the freaks when they're the same! I am very up for acknowledging that the wives are not the only victim in this debacle. We are allies with them not you. I've read articles where married men say they feel lost as the gay community nor the straight like them. And I'm so sorry but I hope that's true as it makes me feel validated. But also that the gay community view men like you with serious suspicion as, unlike the straight community who are utterly misinformed, they have inside knowledge on how big the lie truly was.  

Please could you clear up once and for all, are the gay community on your side or ours? Do they sympathise with you or us? Is their high levels of misogyny in the gay community? 

I'm truly really interested in your answer and I'm sorry if I sound harsh.

Best,

ExBeard.



     

 

My sympathy is for the straight spouses. Gays and Lesbians divorce their straight spouses and lead their happy lives that they should have led and they  should have not passed as straight. .

Hi Sean, 
I have a few questions that I've been curious about.  No disrespect or anything, just something I can't figure out.  

(1)  If a female transitions into a male, and is still attracted to men, does that make that person gay?  And from the partner standpoint - do gay men have a bias for or against becoming involved with men who were formerly women?  Or does it generally not matter? 

Similarly - if a man transitions to a woman and is still attracted to women - is she a lesbian?  What do other lesbians (generally) think of MTF as far as going into a relationship?

(2)  Drag Queens - are most of them gay?  Do they go out with gay men?  Do they tend to be attracted to other drag queens? 

I hope I am not trying to stereo type people; I am just interested in your perspective.  Thanks.  

Thank you everyone for writing. In response to your questions: 

1. If a female transitions into a male, and is still attracted to men, does that make that person gay? Similarly - if a man transitions to a woman and is still attracted to women - is she a lesbian?  What do other lesbians (generally) think of MTF as far as going into a relationship?

I can't answer this question because I'm not trans and don't have any trans friends. But I did find these videos on YouTube that might answer your questions: 

https://youtu.be/U03o8ySLsHI
https://youtu.be/B-Ty5lok0tk

I'd suggest reaching out to a trans person who can answer these questions based on their own experience. 

2. And from the partner standpoint - do gay men have a bias for or against becoming involved with men who were formerly women?  Or does it generally not matter? 

While I can't speak for all gay men, I would personally hesitate to date a trans man (female-to-male) for various reasons. Here is another video of a trans man who details his dating journey: 

First date: https://youtu.be/oMJYT_Ya43Y  
Online dating: https://youtu.be/XtqOi-4ZrZU

3. Drag Queens - are most of them gay?  Do they go out with gay men?  Do they tend to be attracted to other drag queens? 

Again, I'm not friends with any drag queens although based on 10+ years of watching "Rupauls Drag Race" most of the queens I've seen on that show identify as gay men who date other gay men...some of them are also drag queens. 

4. ​If I may tag on another question - can a man be straight and have gay sex or watch gay porn occasionally?  They seem GID or bi to me. Have seen articles in Psychology Today and on PubMed which claim these guys are straight.

The short answer is no. I'm not a mental health professional so my opinions are based on my own experience and also based on the many exchanges I've had here. So to answer your question, no I don't believe that men who no longer have sex with their wives, watch gay porn, and have sex with men are straight/heterosexual. For me personally, I think this recent idea that "straight men can have sex with men and still be straight" is somehow linked to the newer areas of totally free sexual expression and gender identity. (For example, I could potentially wake up tomorrow, change my pronouns to female, and demand that everyone treat me as a woman.) Thanks to my time here, I can appreciate how dangerous this "straight men having sex with men" narrative is to straight spouses because it can be weaponized by dishonest gay-in-denial husbands. In my opinion, if you are sexually attracted to men, watch gay porn, and have sex with men, that man is no longer heterosexual. So how should a straight spouse deal with a husband who cheats with men? I reckon I'm moving beyond the labels of gay, straight, and bisexual because they are black holes. I'm now urging straight spouses to focus on whether they will ever be happy with lying, cheating, and abusive husbands who refuse to have sex with them, all while claiming to be straight. Put bluntly, most women posting here have sh*tty and abusive husbands which makes the "gay/straight/bisexual" debate secondary. A broken marriage remains broken despite fancy labels.     

5. ​I've seen this, too—completely ludicrous. Dr. Joe Kort (who was actually a guest on one of the SSN podcasts) pushes this BS. Maybe his angle is to attempt to remove the shame factor—and make it seem more like a common phenomenon (men having sex with men)—but I think it probably causes more damage than anything. Some straight spouses have used his counseling services with their GID spouses—and in at least two instances I've read about on here, the GID spouse came out as gay after the session. He's like a gay whisperer, I guess!

For those who don't know the name, Dr. Joe Kort is a gay, Michigan-based psychotherapist who wrote, "Is my husband gay, straight or bi?" I interviewed Joe a few weeks ago because I wanted to understand his theory that straight men can have sex with men. This is what I took away from our interview. First, I think Joe's theory applies more to young men (teens and twenties) exploring their sexuality. So I think he's referring to sexual impulsivity and sexual opportunism rather that what we see here. What we see here are men who have spent years or even decades fapping to gay porn, trawling for online sex, and cheating with men while no longer having sex with their wives. Second, he admitted that his ideas do not apply to men who are lying (often to wives) about their sexuality and sexual histories. He went on to admit that it's impossible to determine whether a husband is lying in couples counselling. So what's my point? I agree with Joe that younger males with fewer sexual hang ups/labels can have sex with both genders and still identify as "mostly straight." I believe this is a sign we live in a more open and accepting society. However, I don't believe that 40+ year old husbands who no longer have sex with their wives (nor any other women), watch exclusively gay porn, and only have sex with men should label themselves as straight. As I've written before, I think these men are "emotionally straight and yet sexually gay" because they want to be heterosexual and find acceptance as straight husbands/fathers, however, their sexual expression is almost exclusively same sex / gay.      

6. Yes, it’s complete bs!  (Love the gay whisperer - haha). I wanted Sean’s perspective. Dr. David Malebranche’s podcast in Season 2 was along the same lines. https://ssnvoices.libsyn.com/s2-ep-10-whats-the-difference-men-who-have-sex-with-men-vs-gay-with-dr-david-malebranche. Kort and Malebranche are gay. You’d think they stay far away from this idea.  Perhaps this type of therapy is lucrative?

I'll listen to the Malebranche podcast and let you know my thoughts. But I will repeat my main point: straight spouses should first focus on themselves, their happiness, and their relationships. I don't recommend falling down the rabbit hole of trying to define their spouse's sexuality, particularly with husbands who have often spent lifetimes lying about, denying, and hiding their attractions to men. If your husband is no longer having sex with you, prefers to have sex with men, and/or prefers watching gay sex on screens, his sexual identity is secondary. Such men are incapable of making their wives happy. End of rant!   

Thanks for sharing everyone. If you have more questions, please feel free to post them here.

Last edited by Sean (May 26, 2021 1:49 am)

UPDATE: 

6. Yes, it’s complete bs!  (Love the gay whisperer - haha). I wanted Sean’s perspective. Dr. David Malebranche’s podcast in Season 2 was along the same lines. https://ssnvoices.libsyn.com/s2-ep-10-whats-the-difference-men-who-have-sex-with-men-vs-gay-with-dr-david-malebranche. Kort and Malebranche are gay. You’d think they stay far away from this idea.  Perhaps this type of therapy is lucrative?

I've now listened to the Dr. Malebranche SSN podcast at the gym. Before reading on, please see my last post about Dr. Joe Kort and Dr. David Malebranche, both gay medical professionals. Both doctors also claim that men can have sex with men, while still not identifying as "gay." Here again is my opinion:  

I don't believe that 40+ year old husbands who no longer have sex with their wives (nor any other women), watch exclusively gay porn, and only have sex with men should label themselves as straight. As I've written before, I think these men are "emotionally straight and yet sexually gay" because they desperately want to be heterosexual and thereby find acceptance as straight husbands/fathers, however, their sexual expression is almost exclusively same sex/gay.

Turning now to Dr. Malebranche, he is a physician/HIV specialist and not a psychiatrist/psychologist like Dr. Kort. (Cheeky of me to point this out because I myself have ZERO medical training.) He's gay, in his early 50s, is from Atlanta, and his father is Haitian. Throughout his interview, Dr. Malebrache expressed negative opinions about "Pride" gays...which I took to mean gay men who are too effeminate, too loud, or too out. If I remember correctly, he also mentioned during his SSN podcast/interview that while he was out to his parents, they never really discussed his sexuality after he came out. So why is this important? Dr. Malebranche spent a lot of his interview stating that "gay" was simply too radical a term for some men, particularly Haitian men during the worst of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in the 80s and 90s. Unlike Dr. Kort who openly claims "straight men can have sex with other men", I didn't get the sense that this was Dr. Malebranche's message. He focused quite a bit on Haitian men who did gay sex work to support their families. While this is only my personal opinion, Dr. Malebranche struck me as someone who has struggled with his own masculinity/sexuality, perhaps in the face of unsupportive parents, which might explain his personal need to distinguish between a "gay" identity and just sexual activity between men. Even out gay men seek to conform, often by being as masculine or straight-acting as possible. So I reckon Dr. Malebranche was trying to distinguish between "feminine" or "fabulous" gays, who seem to unsettle him, and "masculine" gays like him. 

Last edited by Sean (June 17, 2021 5:28 am)