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- Virion
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Hi Sean, me again
I was reading some of your old posts and note you have written about your alienation of your ex wife, I am depressed and have recently restarted medication
My husband , who used to be loving is now gaslighting me and escalating his behaviour, this morning after telling me that he couldn't guarantee he would stay faithful forever and thats the reality of life he asked for a BJ and when i said I didnt feel like it he lost his temper and said he will no longer ask me for sex or look after me! as I have already decided I wont sleep with him as he is a "gay fag" and we have a terrible marriage etc etc , Is this a normal pattern post disclosure?
I'm so devastated right now, I have work and family issues as well , felt overwhelmed, had post natal depression some years ago so knew the signs and restarted medication- I feel he is using this against me ,its like he really hates me
Did you do this ?
Thanks as always
- Leslie77
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Hi Sean,
I have a general question to ask you, from your perspective.
What does it mean when a man says he is "Bi-Curious"? To me, that term is a misnomer. If a man is presenting as a heterosexual and is interested in gay sex, he would be "Gay Curious".
Thank you.
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Good day Leslie. In reply:
1. I have a general question to ask you, from your perspective. What does it mean when a man says he is "Bi-Curious"?
I'm afraid I can't be much help my friend. I've never identified as bi, nor bi-curious. Nor do I have any bisexual nor bi-curious friends.
2. To me, that term is a misnomer.
It's certainly possible.
3. If a man is presenting as a heterosexual and is interested in gay sex, he would be "Gay Curious."
Again it's possible my friend. While I came out to my (then) wife the same day she asked me, "Are you gay?" I was surprised to learn that many husbands never come out to their wives...as gay or trans. I reckon a cheating husband who keeps lifelong secrets is the worst person to define his own sexuality. In previous posts, I've urged straight spouses to focus on actions rather than labels/words. So for example:
- Straight Man: a man attracted to women, who watches straight porn, and enjoys having sex with women.
- Bisexual Man: a man attracted to both men and women, who watches either gay or straight porn, and enjoys having sex with both men and women.
- Gay Man: a man attracted to men, who watches gay porn, and enjoys having sex with men.
I can understand a straight spouse's confusion, particularly when her gay-in-denial (GID) husband emphatically claims to be straight, bisexual, or just "curious." But I'd urge straight wives to focus on his actions rather than his words. After all, a closeted husband has been lying about his sexuality for his entire life...and the lies only multiply once his wife starts to openly question his sexuality. So to answer your question again:
4. If a man is presenting as a heterosexual and is interested in gay sex, he would be "Gay Curious."
I would say the husband is just simply "gay" if he:
- Has never really demonstrated an interest in sex with his wife, nor any other women.
- The couple no longer has sex or when they have sex, she has to "peg" or penetrate him.
- He watches gay porn, uses gay hook up apps, and/or posts "looking for sex" messages on CL or the like.
- He's currently having sex with men.
As I've shared in previous posts, for me personally "curious" means trying something spicy at the buffet once or twice, not gorging on the "all d*ck" menu all day, every day.
I hope that helps my friend. If not, please feel free to post again. Be well!
- blindone
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Sean....I appreciate your taking time to share your perspective + frank response. It makes sense to me your comments about co-dependency and I plan to discuss this week w/my therapist. It's been a journey + my main goal in all of this is to grow myself + determine why I stayed in a relationship where there were red flags, why I was OK with some of this behavior, how I rationalized. The honest truth is it never felt right so why did I stay? I feel like there is the truth and then the story I'm building in my head until I can accept/handle the truth. What the hell is that???? I believe this situation along w/my life history (growing up an only child w/older parents, losing my Father and grandmother in the same week when I was 18 years old, my mother has a terminal Parkinson's diagnosis, I've had cancer myself, recently losing a best friend to breast cancer) of loss is one big messy pot where I'm trying to find myself and joy. Again, thank you so much for your candid reply - what I needed to hear honestly!
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thank you for writing everyone. In reply to Virion's post:
1. I was reading some of your old posts and note you have written about your alienation of your ex wife, I am depressed and have recently restarted medication.
I'm very sorry to read this my friend. I hope the medication is helping.
2. My husband , who used to be loving is now gaslighting me and escalating his behaviour, this morning after telling me that he couldn't guarantee he would stay faithful forever and thats the reality of life he asked for a BJ and when i said I didnt feel like it he lost his temper and said he will no longer ask me for sex or look after me!
What an *sshole. Your husband appears to be drowning and clearly doesn't know up from down. Please do your best to detach with love while also protecting your family. I would recommend a trial separation to avoid an escalation of his abuse.
3. As I have already decided I wont sleep with him as he is a "gay fag" and we have a terrible marriage etc etc , Is this a normal pattern post disclosure?
I can only share my own experience. I came out to my (then) wife the same day she confronted me. Then I went on a gay adolescent sex binge until we mercifully separated 18 months later. I acted like a moody teenager and this included angry outbursts at my former wife. So yes in my case, we stopped having sex, co-habited, and I acted like an angry teen.
4. I'm so devastated right now, I have work and family issues as well , felt overwhelmed, had post natal depression some years ago so knew the signs and restarted medication- I feel he is using this against me. its like he really hates me. Did you do this?
I'd suggest discussing all of this with your therapist. In my case, I acted like I hated my ex-wife but I was really trying to get her to leave me because I was too much of a coward to ask for a divorce. Back then, I experienced a visceral self-hatred and, sadly, directed a lot of that venom at my former wife. Please protect yourself and your family my friend. Please also keep in mind that there is very little you can do at the moment to help your husband because he's drowning in his own lies and self-hatred.
In response to Blindone:
1. Sean....I appreciate your taking time to share your perspective + frank response. It makes sense to me your comments about co-dependency and I plan to discuss this week w/my therapist.
Good on you for focusing on yourself.
2. It's been a journey + my main goal in all of this is to grow myself + determine why I stayed in a relationship where there were red flags, why I was OK with some of this behavior, how I rationalized. The honest truth is it never felt right so why did I stay?
Great questions. If you stop focusing on broken men like your ex-fiancee, you'll eventually find these answers. He's just a distraction.
3. I feel like there is the truth and then the story I'm building in my head until I can accept/handle the truth. What the hell is that????
While I'm not a mental health professional, I reckon when we suffer an emotional shock, our minds often take time to work through it.
4. I believe this situation along w/my life history (growing up an only child w/older parents, losing my Father and grandmother in the same week when I was 18 years old, my mother has a terminal Parkinson's diagnosis, I've had cancer myself, recently losing a best friend to breast cancer) of loss is one big messy pot where I'm trying to find myself and joy.
I applaud your honesty and hope you find what you're looking for my friend.
5. Again, thank you so much for your candid reply - what I needed to hear honestly!
Bravo for writing a post about the most important person in your life...you! You didn't even mention your ex-fiancee. That's a great start my friend. Be well!
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thank you for writing Longwayhome (or "LWH"). No I haven't heard of the above doctor, although I applaud you and your fellow straight spouses who focus 100% on themselves and their own healing...rather than on fixing closeted husbands. If the podcasts you referenced help with your own journey, I say keep going my friend. With regards to terms such as "narcissist" and "co-dependency", I try to encourage straight spouses to read up on the same and/or discuss their particular situations with a mental health professional. I agree that not all straight wives are co-dependents. With that in mind, I'd encourage you post your full opinion here and perhaps provide an update regarding your personal experiences/history...but only if you feel comfortable sharing here. I have absolutely no issue with being challenged/corrected and enjoy a good debate. Thanks in advance. Be well!
Last edited by Sean (November 1, 2020 11:56 pm)
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Share all you want my friend, either here or on your own thread. I believe you disagreed with my use of the term 'co-dependent' in previous posts, so perhaps we could start with that. I have often said that gay/straight relationships resemble narcissist/co-dependent relationships. Please share why you disagree with my assertion that some straight spouses may be 'co-dependents.' I think it's positive to have different and differing opinions so post away!
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
I thought I would repost these passages as I attempt to de-bunk the most common excuses by gay husbands having sex with men:
Excuse #1. "I'm just curious, well, nothing happened, um, yes I had sex but didn't like it."
Here is a g-rated example that, I hope, debunks the typical gay-in-denial excuse of "well nothing happened." Imagine your husband/boyfriend spends all of his free time watching baking shows. You discover a baking app on his cellphone, he is secretly a member of a baking forum, and has exchanged hundreds of secret text messages with other amateur bakers. He even placed countless "Looking for Fellow Bakers" adverts on Craigslist. When you search his phone, you find hundreds of secret photos of cakes, muffins, and cookies. There are also a disturbing series of photos of your life partner covered in flour. You then start investigating and in the basement discover his hidden stock of baking pans, utensils, flour, sugar etc. More recently, you find a series of text messages describing a regular clandestine meeting with another baker...a man?! He has never discussed any of this with you, even though you have spent most of your relationship trying to cook with him. Granted cooking and baking are different, but not that different! When you really think about it, your hubby never really appeared interested in cooking with you. And come to think of it he's introduced you to a number of local bakers who are now his friends. When you confront him with his secret baking web history, app, photos, Craigslist adverts, and countless secret baking dates with a "friend", flustered he denies everything. He says, "I'M NOT A BAKER...I prefer to cook with you. I've never even baked a chocolate cake! I was just curious about baking." Then later, he relents: "Ok we baked a cake together once but I didn't like it. In fact, I didn't even try the cake. I prefer cooking with you, not baking. Ok so you and I haven't cooked together in almost three years but that doesn't mean I don't love you." Then later, when presented with his message history, he reluctantly admits: "Ok I've been secretly baking with other men for years, but I don't really enjoy it. I'm a chef like you. In fact, my obsession with baking comes from my neighbour who forced me to bake cakes with him when I was a child. Two guys also forced me to make cookies in college which also traumatized me. And even though you [my wife] have tried for years to cook with me, you're much too aggressive about it and you never cook what I want. Now I want you to attend couples' therapy with me so that you can help me want to cook with you again...even though I've never demonstrated the slightest interest in cooking with you, despite my lifelong interest in baking with other men. So we both agree my secret baking addiction with men was caused by my neighbour and is also your fault, right?" Absurd isn't it? Of course it is. This is the same logic gay-in-denial husbands want their wives to believe about their homosexuality. It's madness.
Excuse #2: "It just happened..."
I'm going to debunk a common myth straight people have about the gay community. Being gay isn't just one constant Roman orgy. Middle-aged men with wrinkles, beer bellies, and thinning hair can't just walk into an adult bookstore, place a Craigslist advert, or log in to gay apps like Grindr and then minutes later start having gay sex. Nope. While gay men certainly have more sexual partners than straight people, just like the straights it takes the same amount of time, effort, and planning to have a gay hook up. (I know because I've learned the hard way.) And a lot of gay men avoid closeted husbands like the plague because we know they're so emotionally f*cked up. Closeted husbands often get caught because they leave such a massive electronic trail, desperately looking for sex, that their wives inevitably catch them. For example, back in my Grindr (a gay hook up app) days, it would often take days and exchanging dozens of messages just to set up a hook up...and even then roughly 50% of the guys were no shows. Even in gay spaces like cruising parks, video booths, and gay baths/saunas, you're not guaranteed of getting any action. I reckon this is why your husband posted hundreds of Craigslist ads. He was clearly spending hundreds of hours trolling for sex. So when a closeted husband claims, "It just happened...." that's complete bullsh*t. He put a lot of planning into that hook up and spent a lot of time negotiating (top/bottom, safe/unprotected sex, where/when) and getting ready (shaving, douching, bringing lube/condoms) for that hook up before it "just happened." Too much information?
Last edited by Sean (November 3, 2020 4:29 am)
- blindone
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Sean, BlindOne here again...........thanks so much again for sharing. It does make perfect sense when I think about how my situation unfolded. At first I asked for truth ' did you go outside of our relationship - we haven't been intimate in a very long time"...."no, no I haven't". Next, "I know you cheated on me w/men", interestingly, he was calm about this accusation, "what are you talking about?!?"...next, "who is Eric?"......"are you talking about the guy I'd get high with after rowing club? - His name is not Eric, we didn't have sex"......(so now he's revealed that used to do drugs and hang w/other different men too!). two days later, "OK I'm ready to talk about this now....people (blaming it on others for putting him in a 'box') have always suspected that I'm gay and it got into my head and I had to find out"....."OK, why did you tell me or split up intend of betraying me?"....."Well, that wouldn't have gone well....." "No shit - you think this is going well?????" OK...."I was looking for something specific when I went to Craigslist, we met only 3 times, the first 2 were just talking and the third time was massage w/happy ending"...Me: "how do you know you're not gay if you didn't have sex?", "because I have no interest in sex w/man, there is nothing attractive about a mans body, I didn't like how it felt"....me: "well, maybe you need to try with a different man?"....(mind you his hookup was 20+ years younger than him); It's very interesting I think I saw the term 'trickle truth".....I have said to him many times these 2 things:
- if you died tomorrow, nobody knows the real you, but me
- You are really only fooling yourself. Your friends and family have all made comments (to me) know and when we were together about their suspicions. AND if you decided to come out and be the real you - they would all still love you and support you (and probably throw a party too)!
I've been reading about co-dependency a lot and will talk w/my therapist this week.......I agree with you and want to work on that!
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thanks for sharing BlindOne. I'm astounded at how far you've come my friend, even after just a few posts. You're an excellent example of how straight wives/girlfriends can heal following separation. Once a straight spouse gets off her husband's merry-go-round of lies, yes she might spin for a bit, but normally she stops believing/defending his twisted logic which is often along the lines of "yes I've been secretly f*cking guys for years but I'm still not gay." I often refer to this as men who are "emotionally straight yet sexually gay." So I reckon cutting off all contact with this radioactive man will help you heal. With regards to "co-dependency" I'd again like to stress that I'm not a mental health professional, so I think it's an excellent idea to discuss all of this with your therapist. I'd encourage you to post again following your meeting. Be well!