Thanks for posting Blindone. In reply: 

1. Hello....thanks so much for sharing your perspective.  I'm wondering your thoughts on this situation I'm in....I found text messages that my ex fiancee had between himself and men. 

I didn't quite understand the term "ex fiancee" so I took the liberty of reading through your previous posts and now know a little bit more about your situation: 8 years together; very little and mostly blah sex; discovery of cheating with men; now broken up for 5+ months but still in contact with him. Is that a fair summary?   

2. Some were regular 'buds' (that he says no sex, just massage and happy ending)...

He's lying. Here is a g-rated example that, I hope, debunks the typical gay-in-denial excuse of "well nothing happened." Imagine your husband/boyfriend spends all of his free time watching baking shows. You discover a baking app on his cellphone, he is secretly a member of a baking forum, and has exchanged hundreds of secret text messages with other amateur bakers. He even placed countless "Looking for Fellow Bakers" adverts on Craigslist. When you search his phone, you find hundreds of secret photos of cakes, muffins, and cookies. There are also a disturbing series of photos of your life partner covered in flour. You then start investigating and in the basement discover his hidden stock of baking pans, utensils, flour, sugar etc. More recently, you find a series of text messages describing a regular clandestine meeting with another baker...a man?! He has never discussed any of this with you, even though you have spent most of your relationship trying to cook with him. Granted cooking and baking are different, but not that different! When you really think about it, your hubby never really appeared interested in cooking with you. And come to think of it he's introduced you to a number of local bakers who are now his friends. When you confront him with his secret baking web history, app, photos, Craigslist adverts, and countless secret baking dates with a "friend", flustered he denies everything. He says, "I'M NOT A BAKER...I prefer to cook with you. I've never even baked a chocolate cake! I was just curious about baking." Then later, he relents: "Ok we baked a cake together once but I didn't like it. In fact, I didn't even try the cake. I prefer cooking with you, not baking. Ok so you and I haven't cooked together in almost three years but that doesn't mean I don't love you." Then later, when presented with his message history, he reluctantly admits: "Ok I've been secretly baking with other men for years, but I don't really enjoy it. I'm a chef like you. In fact, my obsession with baking comes from my neighbour who forced me to bake cakes with him when I was a child. Two guys also forced me to make cookies in college which also traumatized me. And even though you [my wife] have tried for years to cook with me, you're much too aggressive about it and you never cook what I want. Now I want you to attend couples' therapy with me so that you can help me want to cook with you again...even though I've never demonstrated the slightest interest in cooking with you, despite my lifelong interest in baking with other men. So we both agree my secret baking addiction with men was caused by my neighbour and is also your fault, right?" Absurd isn't it? Of course it is. This is the same logic gay-in-denial husbands want their wives to believe about their homosexuality. It's madness.          

3. ...and also random hookups (text to his phone, exchange of photos, "are you free tonight" etc), and one was explicit w/he and a man planning to shower and the man saying very explicitly what he wanted to do to my X.

Before I comment, I want to disclose a few things: first, I am not a mental health professional so these are just my opinions; second, I recommend you continue reviewing all of this with a qualified therapist (and by "qualified" I mean a non-religious therapist who has experience with LGBTQ issues and/or expertise with narcissist/co-dependent couples); third, I am just expressing my opinions here. While I don't have a lot of information here, something struck me. You've written "shower" and "explicitly what he wanted to do to my X." as if your former fiancee was the victim here. He's not. Let's be very clear: your former boyfriend is a gay man who f*cked other men while you were together...and likely bucketloads of other men. That may sting a bit but not only was he a willing and active participant, he cheated on you, subsequently lied about it, continues to lie about it, and (most importantly) this *sshole put you at risk of a serious STI if you continued having unprotected (and completely unsatisfying) sex together. He's a monster and you should cut off all contact immediately.   

4. I have not told him how I know he cheated, just that our town 'is a small town'.  He has not asked how I know any more than a few times initially.  When I came out w/the name of one of them men...he denied but 2 days later told me that he was finally ready to talk about it.  He won't admit to the other men.  

And if he's 60+ years old, he'll likely never admit to being gay. Please understand that you are never going to get the truth ("I'm gay and cheated on you") out of this disturbed, closeted, and seriously mentally ill man. I've been posting here for a few years now and believe that most gay-in-denial/closeted men who date/marry women follow the same patterns. They:  

a. Display very little interest in sex with women. 
b. They attract kind, caring, and empathetic women who feel an overwhelming need to protect and save them. 
c. When confronted with proof of cheating, they deny ("it never happened"), then lie ("I was just curious"), then minimize ("It was just mechanical...it was just once").  
d. When confronted with overwhelming proof of gay cheating, they manufacture some bullsh*t story of being abused as a child. Again more lies. 
e. To keep their "beard" in the relationship, there is often a "honeymoon" period of good behaviour and perhaps even a renewed interest in straight sex, but after a few weeks or months that peters out and it's right back to no sex with the wife/girlfriend and he's back f*cking his regulars on the down low. 

5. Should I share the evidence w/him?  There is no disputing what was happening when you see those. 

Sigh. No you shouldn't share this evidence with him and you need to cut off all contact with this toxic man...IMMEDIATELY! You have all the evidence you need that he is GAY GAY GAY. My question for you is: what is the best-case scenario here? If it's something along the lines of: he tells me the truth; through therapy he overcomes his "same sex attraction"; we reconcile; marry; and live happily every after; you need to accept that this is never going to happen. If your ex-boyfriend is anything like me, he likely started hiding his homosexuality around age 5 or 6. If he's now in his 60s and you met when he was 52, that means he has spent the better part of 40+ years lying to himself and others about his true sexuality....before he met you. He's not evil, he's just been twisted by the lies/denial. If you still feel an overwhelming need to nurture, protect, and heal him, I'd read up on co-dependency and discuss the same with your therapist.  

6. I want to know what he has to say about them and know that I know! 

Walk away my friend. It's called detaching with love. As I often write here, "never get in the pool with a drowning man because he'll only just drag you down to the bottom." Not only is your ex drowning, the man is sporting a flowery bathing cap, pink nose plug, and rainbow-coloured body suit he's so gay. You're never going to get the truth from this deranged man.   

7. Or should I hold and not put my cards on the table.  He will make it about me seeing his text message even though he stole 8 years of my childbearing years. Thanks for any wisdom!

Look I think it's healthy and completely normal to want closure, but you need to stop with the games and cut off all contact. You're never going to get the truth from your ex. In fact, I strongly suspect he's playing you. Sadly, gay-in-denial (GID) men are completely different creatures and black-belt manipulators. They live on another (pink) planet called...Uranus. Just kidding, they live on a planet called Manipulus. Some GID men still believe that even when they f*ck men for decades and watch exclusively gay porn, they are still straight. And they can somehow brainwash kind, unsuspecting, and highly intelligent wives/girlfriends with their lies. I refer to this as men who are "emotionally straight but sexually gay." This means that for whatever reason and no matter how much proof you present him, he can never accept that he's gay. He wants to live the life of a straight man, which is why he chose you, and yet still continue having sex with men. 

So what now? While it's going to be hard, I recommend you detach with love and cut off all contact with this troubled man. It's time to accept that your relationship is dead, so bury it and work like hell to move on. I've learned the hard way that some people are just radioactive, so any and all contact with them is deadly. I believe your ex-fiancee is one of those people. It's time to focus all of the time, energy and love you've lavished on this man and give all of it to yourself. So I'd suggest working on the only person you can truly fix: YOU! Given what you've shared here and in your previous posts, you might want to read up on co-dependency and perhaps discuss the same with your therapist.  

I hope that helps. Please feel free to post again with any questions/comments. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (November 1, 2020 3:56 am)

Hi Sean,
I have a general question to ask you, from your perspective.  
What does it mean when a man says he is "Bi-Curious"?  To me, that term is a misnomer.  If a man is presenting as a heterosexual and is interested in gay sex, he would be "Gay Curious". 
Thank you. 

Sean....I appreciate your taking time to share your perspective + frank response.  It makes sense to me your comments about co-dependency and I plan to discuss this week w/my therapist.  It's been a journey + my main goal in all of this is to grow myself + determine why I stayed in a relationship where there were red flags, why I was OK with some of this behavior, how I rationalized. The honest truth is it never felt right so why did I stay?  I feel like there is the truth and then the story I'm building in my head until I can accept/handle the truth.  What the hell is that???? I believe this situation along w/my life history (growing up an only child w/older parents, losing my Father and grandmother in the same week when I was 18 years old, my mother has a terminal Parkinson's diagnosis, I've had cancer myself, recently losing a best friend to breast cancer) of loss is one big messy pot where I'm trying to find myself and joy.  Again, thank you so much for your candid reply - what I needed to hear honestly!

Thank you for writing Longwayhome (or "LWH"). No I haven't heard of the above doctor, although I applaud you and your fellow straight spouses who focus 100% on themselves and their own healing...rather than on fixing closeted husbands. If the podcasts you referenced help with your own journey, I say keep going my friend. With regards to terms such as "narcissist" and "co-dependency", I try to encourage straight spouses to read up on the same and/or discuss their particular situations with a mental health professional. I agree that not all straight wives are co-dependents. With that in mind, I'd encourage you post your full opinion here and perhaps provide an update regarding your personal experiences/history...but only if you feel comfortable sharing here. I have absolutely no issue with being challenged/corrected and enjoy a good debate. Thanks in advance. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (November 1, 2020 11:56 pm)

I thought I would repost these passages as I attempt to de-bunk the most common excuses by gay husbands having sex with men: 

Excuse #1. "I'm just curious, well, nothing happened, um, yes I had sex but didn't like it." 

Here is a g-rated example that, I hope, debunks the typical gay-in-denial excuse of "well nothing happened." Imagine your husband/boyfriend spends all of his free time watching baking shows. You discover a baking app on his cellphone, he is secretly a member of a baking forum, and has exchanged hundreds of secret text messages with other amateur bakers. He even placed countless "Looking for Fellow Bakers" adverts on Craigslist. When you search his phone, you find hundreds of secret photos of cakes, muffins, and cookies. There are also a disturbing series of photos of your life partner covered in flour. You then start investigating and in the basement discover his hidden stock of baking pans, utensils, flour, sugar etc. More recently, you find a series of text messages describing a regular clandestine meeting with another baker...a man?! He has never discussed any of this with you, even though you have spent most of your relationship trying to cook with him. Granted cooking and baking are different, but not that different! When you really think about it, your hubby never really appeared interested in cooking with you. And come to think of it he's introduced you to a number of local bakers who are now his friends. When you confront him with his secret baking web history, app, photos, Craigslist adverts, and countless secret baking dates with a "friend", flustered he denies everything. He says, "I'M NOT A BAKER...I prefer to cook with you. I've never even baked a chocolate cake! I was just curious about baking." Then later, he relents: "Ok we baked a cake together once but I didn't like it. In fact, I didn't even try the cake. I prefer cooking with you, not baking. Ok so you and I haven't cooked together in almost three years but that doesn't mean I don't love you." Then later, when presented with his message history, he reluctantly admits: "Ok I've been secretly baking with other men for years, but I don't really enjoy it. I'm a chef like you. In fact, my obsession with baking comes from my neighbour who forced me to bake cakes with him when I was a child. Two guys also forced me to make cookies in college which also traumatized me. And even though you [my wife] have tried for years to cook with me, you're much too aggressive about it and you never cook what I want. Now I want you to attend couples' therapy with me so that you can help me want to cook with you again...even though I've never demonstrated the slightest interest in cooking with you, despite my lifelong interest in baking with other men. So we both agree my secret baking addiction with men was caused by my neighbour and is also your fault, right?" Absurd isn't it? Of course it is. This is the same logic gay-in-denial husbands want their wives to believe about their homosexuality. It's madness.  

Excuse #2: "It just happened..." 

I'm going to debunk a common myth straight people have about the gay community. Being gay isn't just one constant Roman orgy.  Middle-aged men with wrinkles, beer bellies, and thinning hair can't just walk into an adult bookstore, place a Craigslist advert, or log in to gay apps like Grindr and then minutes later start having gay sex. Nope. While gay men certainly have more sexual partners than straight people, just like the straights it takes the same amount of time, effort, and planning to have a gay hook up. (I know because I've learned the hard way.) And a lot of gay men avoid closeted husbands like the plague because we know they're so emotionally f*cked up. Closeted husbands often get caught because they leave such a massive electronic trail, desperately looking for sex, that their wives inevitably catch them. For example, back in my Grindr (a gay hook up app) days, it would often take days and exchanging dozens of messages just to set up a hook up...and even then roughly 50% of the guys were no shows. Even in gay spaces like cruising parks, video booths, and gay baths/saunas, you're not guaranteed of getting any action. I reckon this is why your husband posted hundreds of Craigslist ads. He was clearly spending hundreds of hours trolling for sex. So when a closeted husband claims, "It just happened...." that's complete bullsh*t. He put a lot of planning into that hook up and spent a lot of time negotiating (top/bottom, safe/unprotected sex, where/when) and getting ready (shaving, douching, bringing lube/condoms) for that hook up before it "just happened." Too much information? 

Last edited by Sean (November 3, 2020 4:29 am)