Sean’s wife’s sexuality doesn’t matter, apart from the fact that he has no insight into the feelings of a straight spouse.

Misrepresentation does, however, matter a lot. Being told something happened (sharing of this info) when it did not, matters.



There is no relishing here. Just can’t rationalise the disparate detail. Time for a forum break for me.

Last edited by Duped (October 31, 2018 11:29 am)

Thank you everyone for sharing. I apologize if I've triggered anyone and hope that we can now move on. As Lily shared, when I first started positing here, I tended to blame my ex-wife for our marriage's failure. That's so f*cked up it now makes my teeth hurt. Gay men like me have very fragile egos so it was impossible for me to accept blame/culpability, even when I was the spouse who lied, cheated, and watched gay porn all day. I hope that by sharing my wife's sudden revelation near the end of our troubled marriage that she was attracted to women, that this too wasn't another blame shift. But I can see why so many of you called me out on it and thank you for that. I now accept that our relationship failed because I was a gay man who married a woman. Period. My gay/straight marriage didn't work because I'm 100% gay. I have no physical attraction to women, nor any desire to be intimate with a woman. No marriage can succeed under these circumstances. Mine certain didn't. In a marriage, both spouses deserve to have their needs met, both emotionally and sexually. Onward! If there are any straight spouses who have questions for a formerly gay-in-denial husband, ask away. 

Thanks for posting my friend. In reply: 

"When I first found all the porn, I took a few steps back and analyzed my marriage with clearer eyes, I didn’t like what I saw. What I got from him was denial, denial, denial, which put me back into a even more confusing state of mind. He tried to convince me that all straight men like penis, they all fantasize about what it would be like to have sex with another man, say WHAT?!?! In all my 50 years I have never heard a man spew such BS!! I was almost sure these statements couldn’t be true. I wished I had a male gay friend that I could talk to because it just didn’t make sense! Then I found this blog and you. You have cleared up a lot of my confusion and have answer questions that I suspect I will never get from my GID husband." 

I'm glad to have helped in some small way. As I've written many times before: 

1. Straight men don't watch gay porn. 
2. Straight men don't have sex with other men. 
3. Gay/bisexual men watch gay porn. 
4. Gay/bisexual men have sex with other men. 

When your husband is caught watching gay porn or (worse) cheating, the standard replies are:

1. Caught watching porn first time: I was just curious (lying).
2. Caught cheating first time: It was just one time and meant nothing (minimization).
3. Caught watching porn or cheating the second time: Maybe I'm bisexual (may or may not be true). 
4. Caught cheating or watching porn multiple times: I have a porn addiction and/or I was molested as a child (deflection).

Regarding #4, I strongly believe that sexual abuse is cruel, barbaric, and thankfully illegal. I've had long exchanges with straight spouses about child abuse so I'm not going to rehash all of that now. But I will share this: when a straight wife has had enough and is really serious about divorce, most gay-in-denial (GID) husbands panic. They panic at the thought of being outed. As such, the GID husband will often say or do anything to keep his "beard." This includes: a honeymoon phase; attempting to have sex again; acting like the husband she's always wanted. But he can only keep up the act for so long. If he is gay, the porn, cheating, and manipulating all creep back. So what's my point?

BaitAndSwitch I don't think you nor any other straight wives should be ashamed of believing your husbands. Hell I came out to my (then) wife and, even then, we spent 18 months trying to make our relationship work. Whether gay, straight, or heterosexual, most of us try to save our marriages because of children, finances, or even out of love. Sadly, I tried to save my relationship mostly because I feared being out and alone. I reckon this is why so many gay husbands drop their wives like hot rocks once we've found our first boyfriends. I did. Straight wives believe their husbands' lies about "the gay stuff" not because they're naive, it's because you're good, honest, and trusting people. And unfortunately, you married untrustworthy men who lied about their sexuality. None of this is your fault. 

I hope that helps my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (November 1, 2018 12:04 pm)

Thank you for writing Lily. For those who are reading this post for the first time, we were discussing common excuses when gay-in-denial (GID) husbands are caught watching gay porn or cheating on their wives with other men. One of those excuses is often a sudden and unexpected revelation that "I'm bisexual." So in reply to Lily's last post: 

1. Goodness Sean - there's no doubting you are gay, that's for sure!

As a rainbow my friend. Funny how saying, "I'm gay" would reduce me to tears just a few short years ago. So I now understand both sides: a deeply closeted husband and father's terrifying fear of coming out and, years later, full acceptance. Sadly, it came at a terrible price (divorce) and changed the lives of my ex-wife and children. I so regret hurting them. 

2. However one wants to view the label bisexual, as far as a straight is concerned it doesn't really matter, straight is straight.  Straights are 100% attracted to the opposite sex.  And It seems to me from what I have seen and what I have heard from others that many of the women who do identify as bisexuals are like Hopeful10 was honest about being - physically attracted to the same sex from the start but emotionally shifting, being more attracted to the opposite sex when young and then developing more strongly to want to be with a woman as they mature.

Interesting. Most first posts here by straight wives focus almost exclusively on the husband and his behaviour. Here is the most common scenario: the couple no longer has sex; the straight wife starts doubting her husband's sexuality; she starts playing detective on his phone, tablet, and computer; she catches him watching porn, exchanging messages, or even hooking up with men; he denies/minimizes; there is a reconciliation of sorts; then the cycle repeats. After the second or third cycle, he can no longer claim he was just "curious" about gay sex because we're curious just once. As I wrote in a previous post, "curious" is trying something once at the Chinese buffet, not gorging for years on the "all d*ck" menu. When a husband has been watching gay porn for years, spending weeks/months arranging for gay hook ups, and repeatedly cheating on his wife, "curious" no longer cuts it with her. So that's when he claims childhood abuse made him gay or sometimes he claims to be "bisexual."   

3. I reckon straight wives should focus on herself, her wants, and her needs.  

I agree 100%. True healing begins when she no longer seeks to understand her husband nor his behaviour. True healing begins when she admits to herself, "I'm not happy in this relationship, haven't been happy for years, and no longer care if he's gay. And I'm going to _______." However, before reaching this stage, I do believe that denial is a normal part of the grieving process...that is grieving the end of a marriage. After all, most straight wives love their husbands, want to stay married, and for a time do everything possible to save their relationships. My ex-wife did the same. For straight wives, denial is somehow separating the behaviour from her husband. This often comes in the form of blaming gay porn, a childhood abuser, or gay men who have "preyed" on her husband. For some reason, he's not culpable in the beginning. Inevitably, denial turns to anger when she realizes just how much gay porn her husband is watching, there was likely no childhood abuse, and her husband isn't a hapless victim. She's angry because she understands her husband is gay and for years lied to her about it.  

4. I'm going to guess it was a bit like that for you too, that you were more emotionally able to tolerate a woman as a partner in the early days. It's the physical side that wins out.  

Correct. Our relationship was workable in my 20s and 30s. But we were always more friends or roommates than a couple. I was her gay best friend really. I knew I was gay, but I reckon I had a young man's stamina to "play" straight both in and out of the bedroom. This must have been incredibly confusing for my former wife. Then something happened around age 40. I had sex with a male escort on a business trip and that effectively killed off my ability to have pretend sex with my (then) wife. It was my first sexual experience with a man. Given what I've read here, I believe that once a gay-in-denial husband acts on his true sexuality, meaning he has sex with a man, he can no longer have sex with his wife. In my relationship, I stopped having sex with my wife because there was zero physical attraction. For others, I believe this may also be when he asks his wife to start "pegging" or penetrating him with dildos. I never asked my (then) wife to penetrate me but I can't imagine many straight spouses get much out of using strap-ons to "peg" their husbands. (If anyone reading this has sex this way, please feel free to share your thoughts and feelings in a reply.) 

So what's my point? I try to avoid discussing bisexuality because I have no experience nor expertise. I believe bisexuals exist because I'm a firm believer in the sexual spectrum. While I am 100% gay and have zero interest in sex with women, I firmly believe people can be attracted to both sexes. HOWEVER, regardless of what your husband is doing or saying, I urge straight spouses reading this to focus on yourselves, your feelings, and your needs. You are the most important person in your relationship, not him. Most gay-in-denial (GID) husbands act a lot like narcissists or even sociopaths and for me this means two things: first, a closeted husband is often incapable of understanding how all of this is affecting his wife because he lacks empathy; second, most GID husbands are pathological liars and black-belt manipulators. So you probably won't hear an apology for the years of cheating and gay porn, but you are going to hearing that it's your fault, it's his porn addiction, and/or he was abused. A GID husband is probably never going to admit he's gay, because he can't admit it to himself. I know because I've been there.

So for straight wives who are new to this site, I want to end this rambling post with a few thoughts:

1. Focus on yourself: get your own therapist, if he's cheating get tested for STDs, and talk to close friends/family.
2. Accept that this is a journey. It'll probably take you 18-24 months before you start seeing things more clearly.
3. Post everything here so that the kind members can give you the love/support you need. 
4. Remember your goals: write down what you want from your partner & relationship. I reckon a husband's sexuality is secondary. What you need to determine is if this man will ever be capable of making you happy. If the answer is no, then it's time to detach with love and move on.

I hope that helps friends. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (November 5, 2018 4:27 am)

Hi Addie. Thanks for posting my friend. In reply: 

1. I've been contributing a few things over the past few months about my situation and I have been reading your posts. Apologies if you have already commented on this before - your thread is the most populated by far and too much to read through.

Ask away my friend. I agree this thread is getting rather long! 

2. The gist I tend to get in your responses is that you were and believe that most men who reveal their new lives to their partners are or go on to be self serving narcissists - who lie, cheat and do all that they need to do in order to lead their new lives - but that in time - some men/ you included - come to recognise the pain caused and regret and are able to find a more respectful way forward. 

Correct. Again, I'm not a mental health professional so please gage my opinions accordingly. I'd also urge anyone reading this to consult with a professional who has prior experience with gay/straight marriages and narcissism. He/she can then determine based on the facts if your gay-in-denial husband suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or any other disorder. Using myself as an example, I believe that my own NPD went hand in hand with being closeted. So I personally believe that closeted = narcissist because I had to lie, manipulate, and gaslight my former wife and others to distract them from my homosexuality. I've often described my own narcissism as akin to an addiction like alcoholism, meaning that for me it was a form of coping mechanism. Once I'd come out of the closet and separated, I no longer needed to wear a "mask" because my close friends and family all knew I was gay. HOWEVER, while married and partially out, I went through a form of "gay adolescence" during which I was selfish, moody, and blind to the harm I caused my (then) wife and kids. Which brings me to your next point...

3. My situation is different to the one you have described and to the one experienced by so many people on this forum. Long story short, married 30 years, 2 kids... I'm 50...he has been my best friend all my life...

So far I wouldn't say that your situation is all that different my friend. Most gay-in-denial husbands act out in their 40s or 50s, most people posting here also have kids, and almost every straight spouse starts with, "he's my best friend, BUT...."  

4. ...he didn't cheat on me but we separated four months ago when he told me he needed to explore a different side of himself with a man.

I'd re-write that as: "I never caught him cheating." Few gay-in-denial husbands disclose the full extent of things like gay porn and hook ups so I think it's prudent to assume your husband has likely experimented with other men and won't likely tell you about it. 

5. I was/ am devastated.....

I can imagine and am so sorry you and your kids are going through this. 

6. ...we carry on living together, are respectful and caring toward one another.

This is perhaps where we differ. There is nothing respectful nor caring about a husband dating, while married to and living with his wife.  

7. I am trying to address my own needs, being good to myself, have only just started seeing a therapist.

Good for you. I'd also urge you to share all of this with close friends or family. Question: are you dating as well? 

8. He is dating.... Of course I find all of this hurtful, so painful that the emotional pains actually transforms not physical pain sometimes. I do not want this to happen...

It sounds awful. Someone who loves and cares about you wouldn't deliberately put you through this kind of agony. 

9. BUT it is and I just have to find a way to accept this in time - he's gay... there is nothing I can do about this. 

This is a major hurdle and one of the most important steps for any straight wife. You've accepted he's gay and that he isn't going to change. 

10. We are trying not to hurt one another by doing things as respectfully as we can - and we are... 

Again, I disagree with you. Full disclosure: I'm no angel because I too dated under my (then) wife's nose. It was agony for her and I truly regret it. I reckon that if your husband truly cares about you, respects you, and doesn't want to hurt you, he'd refrain from dating until you separate.  

11. So, my question is - have you met, do you know of other men who land this bombshell but are not liars and cheats and self serving narcissists as you describe. Having known my husband since we were both 18 - I know him to be a good man - when he says he doesn't want to hurt me - I believe him - though I remind him & myself that he is hurting me despite his lack of intention ---

Let's look at this from a different perspective. Imagine you have a best friend named Sue, married to her teen sweetheart Frank. Sue comes to you with the following story, "Six months ago, Franck announced that he wanted an open marriage so he could have sex with other women. Even though our sex life was mostly non-existent, I'm still devastated and told him so. I suggested counselling, he refused. He was so hell-bent on exploring his sexuality because we'd been together 'for so long.' He's now all giddy and happy while dating, like a teenager, completely oblivious to my pain. The kids know something is up and I fear they're going to find out. We're now sleeping in separate bedrooms. So what should I do now?" So what's your advice for Sue? Does Franck truly love her? 

12. This is not the point. The point is , every-time I read your responses, it unsettles me - it makes me think that maybe I am a fool in trusting that he is a good man.

I don't think you're a fool my friend, nor do I think that about any other straight spouse posting here. I do think your husband is a complete *sshole for dating men while married to you. (I did the same thing to my then wife and I too was a complete *sshole.) You're guilty of nothing more than assuming your husband is a kind and caring person, just like you. He's not. No kind and caring husband would ask his wife for permission to f*ck other guys, while you're still married! And you really know your husband is a narcissist if YOU feel guilty about this situation. Don't, because none of this is your fault. If you're thinking anything like: "Well we did meet so young" or "I did gain all that weight" or "I did give him permission to date guys" you've been manipulated by a master manipulator.    

13. I can imagine that this is impossible for you to answer as you don't know him - but are there any men out there that you believe that can do this enormous thing and not be described in the way that you tend to... Thanks very much. 

Oh I think I know him very well. He sounds like me about four years ago and believe me, I was a MONUMENTAL *SSHOLE for dating under my wife's nose. But you don't have to take my word for it my friend. Here is a simple test: tell him this is too difficult for you and you'd like him to stop dating until you separate. If he truly loves you, he'll say, "Of course I'll stop. I'm sorry I hurt you and apologize for asking you to go along with this." That's a normal, caring response. If however you hear, "What? You said I could date. I have a date next Friday that I can't cancel. Arrggggh! And why aren't you dating? I just don't get you anymore." If he responds with anger, blame-shifting, and gaslighting, unfortunately he is a narcissist. 

Again so sorry you're in this situation my friend. Please keep us posted.