Thanks for sharing Penny & Duped. Penny I think you should focus on why you feel such an overwhelming need to save your lying, cheating, and porn-addicted gay husband. Given your recent posts, I reckon you're a conclusion looking for facts: namely for some reason you so want to stay with this broken man that you're willing to see his recent interest in gardening and therapy as some sort of new beginning. I've taken the liberty of reading through some of your other posts through which you appear to be going to extraordinary lengths to justify your husband's gay porn habits. Looking at the facts: you are not happy in your marriage; your sex life isn't making you happy; and there is strong evidence your husband is gay-in-denial. Again, I'd recommend you focus on yourself and healing why you feel such an overwhelming need to stay with such a broken man. I'm sorry if that stings my friend but I'd put all of the time and energy you're focusing on your husband into healing you. I hope that helps. 

Last edited by Sean (October 13, 2018 6:02 pm)

Penny there is no right nor wrong in anyone's journey my friend. In fact, I applaud you for coming back, asking questions, and continuing to focus on yourself. Please keep in mind that we all started from somewhere. Hell, I spent most of my life denying I was gay so I know a thing or two about denial. With that in mind, let's focus on the facts:

1.  You want to separate/divorce: "I’ve decided I want more. I’m 48 and I deserve to have intimacy and the healthy sex life that I want. I’m tired of accepting crumbs...I realised that either he doesn’t care about me or he can’t help himself because he’s gay - either scenario doesn’t look good for me." Very few of us just up and leave our relationships. We all hesitated, I certainly did. My own bargaining stage lasted about 18 months before we separated. 

2. Your husband is in a downward spiral: Your husband has a drinking problem, you're no longer intimate, and his main sexual outlet appears to be watching/reading gay porn...something he's done for years. "It meant that my instincts are solid and just seeing all those searches, and articles in literotica about being bi-curious, wanting to suck dick and be submissive, first time gay experiences ad nauseam - meant I wasn’t crazy and being paranoid.  I took photos of them."  

3. You feel an overwhelming need to fix or heal your husband: "I’ve turned myself inside out being the fixer of this marriage." I wouldn't be too hard on yourself my friend. And why? This seems to be common among straight spouses, who suffer through decades of emotional abuse, neglect (both in and out of the bedroom), and faint hope that things will get better. 

4. Sensing you're really serious about leaving this time, he's making (lame) efforts to keep you:  There are two ways to interpret his recent interests in therapy and gardening. The first is that he's making a real effort to change because he wants to keep you. The second is that he's doing the bare minimum, for the shortest amount of time, to keep you in this broken relationship. I tend to see the latter my friend. After all, this was apparently your therapist. I reckon you probably made initial contact, likely booked his appointment, and may have even driven him there. These aren't criticisms, just common things that happen in gay/straight marriages. Once again, you're doing most of the heavy lifting to save your relationship. 

5. Your husband has very deftly put the onus back on you to fix your relationship. This is complete bullsh*t: Most gay-in-denial husbands are black-belt manipulators. I certainly was. Most gay (or gay-in-denial) men are aware they are different around age 5 or 6. This was my experience as well. From a very young age, Iearned how to dazzle, distract, and manipulate others so that they wouldn't ask me the terrifying question: "Are you gay?" So let me come to the point. Given what you shared: "She told him that watching/reading gay porn in and of itself doesn’t mean he is gay- she asked him about our sex life and he told her some of it but not all - not the dominating fantasies, dildoes etc. but the impotence, our pattern of me giving him a handjob and him giving me oral sex.  He said she commented that this was sex and intimacy, and to his credit he said it had turned into just relief rather than any deep intimate connection."

First, you have no idea what this therapist told him. There is a very good chance that he's making this all up because it very neatly plays to the (false) narrative, "Yes I've jerked off to gay porn for decades, but I'm still 100% straight." Um no. No matter what the vast and wildly inaccurate internet says, as a gay man I can very confidently share that: straight men want to have sex with their wives; straight men watch straight porn; and straight men read straight erotica (erotic literature). Gay men, on the other hand, have sex with other men, watch gay porn, and sometimes read gay erotica. Second, why omit such important details like "I enjoy dildos up my *ss."? I reckon it's because this was simply too damning information that he's gay-in-denial and he knew it. That's why he didn't mention it. Gay men enjoy sex with other men and this includes anal sex. Straight men do not. Third, your husband is using an old standard in the "I'm a straight victim in all of this gay stuff." Abuse. With a straight face (please excuse the pun), your husband is now claiming that seeing a man masturbate 38 years ago explains his gay porn addiction. You wrote: "He is now making the link between his gay porn and an incident when he was in his 20’s where an older man masturbated in front of him. He has told me this before but added in the “I’m going to be honest, I wondered what it would be like”. I’m wondering if linking this for him (an incident that occurred 38 years ago) is an attempt to understand, or just a lame excuse." I vote for very lame excuse my friend. And there is a very real possibility this story is complete bullsh*t.     

So what's my point? I'd continue posting Penny because through regular posts, you will be able to honestly and objectively see whether your relationship improves or not. The goal for all straight spouses is to have husbands who love, cherish, and truly desire them. Please don't lose sight of that goal. YOU and YOUR feelings are the most important elements here...not his drinking, gay spank websites, nor his (potentially bullsh*t) stories about being traumatized seeing some guy jerk off 40 years ago. I want to caution that I'm only expressing my opinions my friend, I'm not a mental health professional. That said, I've seen this pattern before. You're now seriously considering separation/divorce, so he's making a very minimal effort to keep you. Moreover, he's probably playing you by casting himself as some sort of helpless victim in all of this when YOU and your children are the victims: of his neglect, alcoholism, and emotional abuse. Don't forget that my friend. YOU are suffering because of him. You are suffering because of his lies. I reckon most straight wives move on when they realize: their husbands are gay; were born gay; married to hide their sexuality; there is nothing they can do to change their husband's sexuality; and they deserve so much better. If you want a virtual pep talk, I'd reach out and perhaps have a telephone call with Kel. She's been through all of this, knows all the gay-in-denial tricks, and is now thriving with a straight man who truly wants her. There comes a time in all gay/straight relationships where the straight spouse finally accepts that a cat is NEVER going to bark. Gay men like men and want to have sex with men, period. No amount of therapy, lawn work, nor excuses are going to change the fundamental fact that straight women are better off with straight men. 

I hope that helps my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (October 14, 2018 6:56 am)

Hey Sean, I am so appreciative of the time you take to respond to not only my posts but others on here as well. And in such detail. Thank you.

As I’m writing on my phone it’s too difficult to quote all the parts of your considered response and respond to each one.

However I have reread it a few times, and you make a lot of sense on much of it. The only part that wasn’t correct was the part about the therapist - yes I gave him her name and cell (I’ve never used her, just know of her through work) and suggested he talk to someone because he was in such distress - I didn’t think he would ring her on the same day and leave early from work to go see her. She was concerned about how he sounded on the phone to her so saw him straight away. You are right - I can’t know what he/she said in the appointment. He sounded genuine but who knows. The gardening task in our neglected and overgrown back yard (metaphor for our marriage?) was a task she set for him to achieve - obviously as a way for him to focus on something else as he also hasn’t touched a drop of alcohol for over a week. No drunken passing out this week. However, I’m not naïve enough to think this may be long term for him - I suspect it is part of being ‘good’ while I’m still in the house and while he thinks there may be a glimmer of hope.

He is still being somewhat of a ‘sad sausage’ (thanks OOHC) and he is being very passive - in the back of my mind is the sense that it mirrors his submissive slave fantasy - “I’ve been bad so now I have to please her”.  There is just something a little contrived and disingenuous about I can’t quite put my finger on.

I have to admit I am intrigued by him bringing up that past incident with the masturbating man - as like you say, who even knows if that’s all that happened. Makes me wonder - why did this man choose him to do that to? What else happened? But I will never know that, and it doesn’t really matter in the big scheme of things. He probably wouldn’t tell the whole truth anyway - he can be sparing with that.

Bottom line is that it’s too early to know if these changes are for real and a genuine attempt to understand himself, or they are temporary until I ‘come to my senses’ so to speak. My gut is saying that if I told him I’d decided to stay tomorrow - then these new behaviours would slowly disappear to the same old shit and I would once again be trapped and sick - and our fraught sex life and the different things we enjoy is never going to change. Unless one of us pretends, or we sweep everything under the rug, as we have in the past. The only thing that could possibly change that is if by some miracle he worked through his anxiety around intimacy and was able to be fully sexual with me and didn’t need all the rest of that shit. Can’t see that happening though.

One thing I did see, and you will probably tell me off for spying, but old habits die hard. I looked at his search history in fb and saw he had searched for his first love the day after I confronted him. There is a long story to that, in that they conducted an EA online for years - lots of “her- we will be together again this life or the next”(bleuch) and him reminiscing about their years together and giving her a song he knew I loved and thought was special for me. Anyway, I confronted him a few years ago and called it what it was and told him to defriend her and he was to have no contact. I told her to bugger off too. It was another escape for him - a fantasy relationship.  To steal your line Sean - What is my point? He does shitty things to avoid feeling distress. A total inability to just front up. THAT is what I’m sick of. It’s turned me into this spying mistrustful person because I can never get honesty from him. And interestingly enough, he couldn’t see how that relationship was inappropriate. He remained slightly resentful at taking his ‘friend’ away from him.

You know, this weekend past I went for two long walks and then climbed these steep steps near where I live because I want to move my body again. I hardly watched any Netflix and felt moments of sadness but also peace at the prospect of getting off this crazy train. I inquired about a fully furnished apartment I could just move into - and the relief and happiness I felt at that possibility was strong. I am taking care of myself for the first time in a long time, including not overeating and feeling depressed. And that is because I am just leaving him to get on with what he needs to, and I have the space to focus on me.

I am off overseas in a couple of days for a few days with my mother - it will be a nice break and time away from it all.

Thanks once again Sean. And to everyone else who is weighing in and keeping it real.

Last edited by PennyD (October 14, 2018 9:24 pm)

Hi Sean/ALL 

So Ive got an interesting situation. Been dating this guy for 2 years. He was very open and honest with me from the beginning about his past. He was molested since age of 7 by male in his family and also suffers from depression. He says he was confused about his sexuality since young age however had several female relationships, one being the love of his life who died. At 19 he married a woman whom he said he never truly loved and they had 2 kids. His struggles with depression and sexuality took a toll on the marriage. He says he could never cheat on his SO but he wasn't giving her what she needed and she cheated, they divorced. HE HATES INFIDELITY. He then was in a few other hetero relationships but they never lasted. He then "went out there" as he calls it and experimented with embracing his homosexual feelings. He had a few hook ups with men, but is a very emotional, loving guy and prefers monogamous relationships. He had 2 unsuccessful relationships with men in a 12 years period. One 5 years the other 1 year. Both times he never cheated, even staying in celibate long distance relationship with one but they eventually cheated on him in both cases. He got deeper into depression, drinking, etc and hit rock bottom. About 10 years ago he went into rehab, had a "come to Jesus" turn around as he calls it and moved back in with his family. Did not date and focused on himself.  2 years ago he saw me and instantly "fell in love". Thought I was the most beautiful thing ever. Stalked me for a bit, admitted his crush, time passed, he grew on me and we ended up dating. Initially very affectionate, passionate, touchy and loved to tongue kiss... aside from some effeminate tendencies never thought he was gay. It was hard for him, but he opened up to me about his past and everything he's done with men, etc but assured me he was "done with that lifestyle". I was weary but we continued relationship. Everything was great (aside from occasional depressive bouts because he doesn't always take his ANTI dep meds ) right up unil our engagement. He fell in love waay too fast! 6 months into our relationship he was ready to propose. I stopped him and convinced him to wait it out. Finally he attempted again April of this year and I said yes. It went downhill from there. No porn/ grindr discoveries, internet searches and no talking to other guys/meetups  (I am always using his phone) and he literally works desk job, comes home and vegges out, but I noticed he loved watching RuPauls Drag Race, Grace and Frankie and caught him one time laying naked watching some skivvies band with men and women in underwear on youtube....I kinda brushed it off cus hes always naked when hes at home...His depressive bouts/drinking then increased from every other month to almost weekly. When Id ask him whats going on he kept talking about his childhood molestation ruining him and fears of not being able to satisfy me the way I deserve once were married because he's got ED (hes 45), I told him that wasnt a concern and we'd work on it together. The weeks passed, the depressive bouts progressed.  Still very loving and attentive at times but more isolated and distant. And kisses were only quick pecks. Then one super drunken night he texted me to watch "Love, Simon" then texted then next day"...this is difficult, but I am gay" After that I empathized with him and assured him I loved him but we could no longer pursue a romantic relationship as I do not have the appropriate "appendages" he desires (LOL) but we could still be friends and I wasn't mad at him. He then went to his lowest depression and drinking phase which landed him in ER. He wouldnt bathe, eat or leave his bed according to his family, since I dumped him. After he stabilized, we met for dinner a week ago. He hugged me so tight I thought I was going to die and he started sobbing! He couldnt get over how "beautiful" I was since he hadnt seen me in 2 months. He then says he made things seem too "black and white" when they arent. He says he's "not gay, but attracted to both" and although he "struggles at times with thoughts", is 100% committed to me only. He cannot accept me not being his wife and says he will try until he dies to regain my trust. He feels although he has this struggle there are many ways 2 people who love each other can express and enjoy intimacy. Whatever that means. He can be aroused with male on male thoughts  but hetero..he just cant get it up. I mean we havent tried together, we arent sexually active for moral reasons, and his fear is, since his last sexual encounter was years ago and with a man, he may have issues getting it up with me although hes "extremely attracted to me" as he puts it. I listened all night, we had a good talk but I gave him his ring back and told him that although we can never say never, that right now he should focus on his health and we can still be best friends and go from there. He seemed ok by the end of the night although he was crushed. He sent a few drunk texts begging for me to not let this go, then couple days later he checked into rehab for a 6 week program. He gets out mid November. He's hoping that Im still waiting on the other side when he gets out. He's not accepting the friendship route at all. Im super confused. Half of me is like run for the hills this guy is gay in denial! The other half is still in love with the dope
Sorry for long story. I guess my questions are:
Would a gay man be this heartbroken over a straight partner leaving them? I mean he was actively in that lifestyle for years and his family and friends knew and accepted it. He wouldn't lose anything but me if he went back to that but he doesn't want to
Is he just a heartbroken gay man lying to himself who needs to find his true gay love? Is he possibly bi and can emotionally attach to either depending on situation?
 How can he be attracted to both when he can get sexually around thinking of men but not really with women? Is he just a confused depressed guy? Am I crazy for even considering pursuing knowing that there isnt much success with monogamous MOMs even if hes not a known cheater?

Last edited by CaliShocked87 (October 17, 2018 1:15 am)

Also, Calishocked, to add to what Sean said......

When the thought of marrying you became a reality and not just an idea, his drinking got worse. Why do you think that is? If he is a faithful guy like you say, could it be that the reality of never being able to be with a man again was just too much for him so he started drinking even more?

Also, what about you? What do you want in a marriage? Do you want kids? Would he even be able to give them to you? What kind of dad is he to the kids he already has?

Your call, of course, but I bet every single one of us on this board would say to run. Believe it or not, to know of all this before you are married and have kids, mortgages, etc., is a huge blessing. It may not feel like it right now, but it really is.