OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Supportme · August 15, 2018 6:44 pm

Hi All. Hi just checking in. Hubby and i as doing our first joint councilling session next week. So i will check in after how it goes. I think long term we will separate.. its the inbetween we need to navigate. Ive come to this realisation as hubby feels the gay thing is more than just the sex... its his inate being.. which i get... so bloody hard to accept tho. Anyhow, sean i so value your here!!! As you obviously get everything. Regards Supportme!

Séan · August 16, 2018 11:48 am

Thank you for the update Supportme. You wrote:

"Hubby and I as doing our first joint counselling session next week. So I will check in after how it goes. I think long term we will separate. It's the in between we need to navigate."

Please keep us posted my friend and good luck with the marriage counselling. My (then) wife and I also tried counselling near the end of our troubled relationship. Sadly, I reckon I used it more to blame our relationship problems on her while only talking about myself. If you haven't already done so, I'd encourage you start your own thread here and do/continue one-on-one therapy with a professional who has gay/straight marriage experience. Don't forget to focus on yourself during these troubled times because you've suffered and are suffering just as much if not more than your gay husband. I'd also suggest you discuss all of this with close friends/family because keeping your husband's secrets is no longer your responsibility.

Good luck and thanks again for posting. Be well!

phoenix · August 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Sean, I might have asked you this once before, but i can't remember and I don't have time to sift through 1142 posts

It seems like a large percentage of gay in denial men have a story about being abused sexually as a child. I see it written here so incredibly often. But every time I read these stories it just bugs me and I keep thinking it's an easy excuse and probably not entirely true. I feel like it's a socially acceptable excuse for homosexuality (not that excuses should be necessary). But because of this I think so many gay men fall back on this excuse because it removes guilt and makes them a victim so that others feel sorry for them.

Do you think I'm wrong to make this accusation? Am i way off base?

If I step back and just think logically about this I have to ask a few questions.
1.) If I had a traumatic experience as a kid, I think I would want to avoid that same thing in the future. Like getting bit by a dog makes you afraid of the dog, or... getting stung inside your mouth by a bee while drinking mountain dew because the bee was inside the can makes you not like mountain dew (ask me how I know). So it doesn't make sense to me that this unwelcome event would make you want more of the same thing. If you have terrible memories of another boy or man touching you sexually as a child, why would you desire that now (unless you are gay and you desire it because you are gay).
2.) How could being sexually abused by a male when you are a child change your desire for a woman? I don't understand how an event with a man would make you no longer interested in a woman. It doesn't seem like it should make a person gay... perhaps if you could convince me of the first question (above) I could believe that this might make a person "bi", but I don't get how it makes someone gay.
3.) Why should I believe any excuse given by a pathological liar? If we figure out they have been fabricating a "straight" life, wouldn't it be pretty easy to extend that to cover any excuse they would give for "why they are gay".
4.) Don't we all have an understanding that homosexuality is how you are born? is it really possible that a person can actually chose to be attracted to a same sex person? If it were a choice for a gay in denial person, wouldn't they just chose to be straight? So if it's a genetic trait, how can an experience change our sexuality?

Just curious about your perspective.

This is something I tend to think more strongly about as i continue to read stories.. and I always want to call people on this, but I don't think i'm expert enough to make this claim. I don't want to talk out of turn and go too far out on a limb on this. So i'm really interested in your opinion here.

Thanks

Séan · August 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Hey Phoenix. We've had this conversation before my friend. Here is our exchange from last January:

1. You refer to "childhood abuse" as a common "story" or excuse for a homosexual in denial.

Yes. There seems to be a pattern. When a gay-in-denial husband's (GIDH) back is truly against the wall and his wife is on the verge of leaving him, he often breaks out an abuse story. I've read about it time and time again here.

2. This comes up in a very high percentage of the stories of new members here on the forum. It seems so frequent that childhood abuse is one of the causes that the GID husbands use. I find myself rolling my eyes every time I hear it. I'm wondering how realistic this is.

Before I reply, I want to make it very clear that I believe any form of sexual abuse is barbaric, completely unacceptable, and rightfully illegal. But GIDHs are a different creature altogether. I tend to believe that gay husbands hiding their sexuality are often narcissists, if not full-blown sociopaths. I certainly was. So that makes a GIDH a master manipulator who will often say or do anything to hide his sexuality by preserving his heterosexual marriage. That said, I tend to be skeptical about GIDH claims about childhood sexual abuse, not unlike when I read about the common "I'm bisexual" defence. Some time ago, I posted a checklist for straight wives who hear the "I was molested" claim. If memory serves, my list as to whether he's telling the truth was as follows:

a. Has he ever discussed childhood abuse before?
b. Did he claim he was molested/abused when you were on the verge of leaving him?
c. Is he blaming the abuse on someone who has died or is otherwise unreachable?
d. Does he have a history of lying and manipulation to explain away gay sexual behaviour like cheating?
e. Is he claiming sexual abuse while at the same time suggesting you both attend therapy together?

If the answer to the above is "yes" then I'd assume he's trying to paint himself as a victim so that his straight wife will feel the need to save & protect him by staying in a dysfunctional and abusive marriage. If you really want to know the truth about the abuse, here are some suggested replies:

a. When did the abuse occur? How often did it happen? And by whom?
b. If the abuser is still alive, suggest that he go to the police to press charges with your full support.
c. Tell him that he needs to go for counselling alone.

3. Is childhood abuse very common among gay males?

I don't know. I was never abused and none of my gay friends were abused as children.

4. Is it a legitimate and frequent cause for homosexuality?

I don't think so no. Some people, many of whom are deeply religious, claim that homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or "choice." Saying that childhood abuse results in homosexuality simply feeds the narrative that these people are broken and can somehow be fixed.

5. It seems that sexual contact with an adult male at a young age would be an uncomfortable and unwanted experience, so I don't understand how it would lead to a man becoming gay later in life. Wouldn't that make a person want to avoid contact with a male rather than invite it?

I really don't know as I'm not a mental health professional.

6. I guess my current line of thought is that our society has accepted that childhood abuse is a viable "excuse" for homosexual desires.

I'm not sure if most people believe this to be true. But for some people, mainly those of deep faith pushing conversion "cure" therapy for homosexuality, I'd say yes it's an excuse for "same sex attraction" as they call it. I firmly believe I was personally born gay.

7. I'm not sure what the genesis of this thinking is, perhaps a book or movie or some kind of study that was done? But for some reason our society accepts this reason. Because it's an acceptable reason, people who are ashamed to be homosexual seem to use it as an excuse very very often.

Agreed. I think it plays into a narrative that being gay is somehow a moral failing, the result of something, and is perhaps treatable. For a long time, I too believed that I was "broken" because of my absent father and dominant mother. In my case, that's complete bullsh*t but it still took me time to overcome things I'd heard repeated most of my life.

8. What do you think? Am I wrong about this? I hate to stereotype of course and I try not to do it. But every time I read the "childhood abuse card" I just don't seem to believe it.

When it comes to childhood abuse and GIDHs, there are two possibilities:

a. He's telling the truth and believes this caused his homosexuality.
b. He's lying to explain away why you caught him again cheating, on Craigslist etc.

If your gay-in-denial husband has a history of lying, manipulation, and abusing YOU, then I'd approach his "I was abused" defence from the standpoint of: "Ok. I'm listening. I want facts. Prove it." Hearing a husband claim childhood abuse triggers a strong emotional response. Sadly, I fear that GIDHs are simply using fake stories of abuse to manipulate straight wives to remain in broken relationships. A healthy and honest person would say, "I'm sharing this story with you because I need to get help. I'm sorry for the way I've acted and this is what I'm going to do on my own to make it better." A lying, narcissistic, GIDH would subtly use these claims to shift blame away from himself and on to his wife. That would sound like, "You haven't supported me enough. We need to go to counselling. I want to open up our marriage to threesomes" or "I want to have your permission to sleep with men." An honest person can provide details, can apologize, and makes an honest effort to change. A GIDH *sshole will claim "I can't remember" when pressed for details, shifts blame onto his long-suffering wife, while at the same time making her feel like she isn't doing enough to fix a relationship he ruined. End of rant!

I hope I've answered your questions. If not, please feel free to write again.

Ellexoh_nz · August 16, 2018 3:23 pm

phoenix wrote:
2.) How could being sexually abused by a male when you are a child change your desire for a woman? I don't understand how an event with a man would make you no longer interested in a woman.

I don't often read Seans thread but your post caught my eye Phoenix...and the SSN Voices Podcasts I've been listening to and the articles I've been reading all point to "society" and "tradition" being the motivator behind a person travelling a path that's greater than their own internal/hidden sexuality. And when they reach a certain age (roughly) they allow themselves to pull it out and inspect it.

I've never spoken of this before but when I was 7/8 I was acccosted by a man....he grabbed me from behind and slipped his hand down my pants (it's so hard to type this...lol) (I may delete it later)
My point is.....remembering this didn't happen til my teens...and it traumatised me til I was older and could safely retrieve it from my memory, counsel myself through it, and self-teach myself that 'the event' was separate from my life now. It took years. Nobody knew.

Being authentic and individual means we all do it differently.
There's no "one size fits all".
I forgot to add.....this trauma, these memories didn't stop me loving men. It made me want to delve into the feeling and emotions it left me with, and make myself a better partner....because the heterosexual couple we were was my reality. Little did I know!

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (August 16, 2018 6:46 pm)

Séan · August 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Thank you for sharing Ellexoh...that took a lot of courage my friend. Here are some additional posts that may be of interest. I think it's very important to read the posts (see last link) of the straight spouse who lives with a husband and victim of sexual abuse. She strongly disagreed with me. Again, I want to disclose that I'm not a mental health professional, nor have I ever been sexually abused. As such, I'm only expressing my personal opinions.

1. Gay in denial husband cries "I was abused": http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=11686#p11686
2. Determining whether or not it's true: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=11695#p11695
3. Exchange with a Straight Spouse who disagreed with me: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=13221#p13221

Last edited by Séan (August 16, 2018 3:47 pm)

Abby · August 16, 2018 4:08 pm

It's been on the U.S. national news and BBC news about the Pennsylvania Attorney General's release of a grand jury report on sexual abuse in that state's Catholic dioceses. The report is lengthy, available on line and survivors are speaking out. One of the side effects they cite is broken relationships and marriages and self-medicating with drugs, alcohol and other addictions.

From what I've read predators seek out the vulnerable. What would these boys and girls lives be like if they had not been lured into inappropriate sexual relationships?

phoenix · August 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Thanks Sean. Sorry I forgot about your reply. I felt like we discussed it but I couldn't find it and thought maybe it was one of those times where I meant to do something and forgot but thought I did it...anyway thanks again for your input.

OutofHisCloset · August 16, 2018 5:43 pm

I was sexually abused as a child by my father and subsequent therapy and education have taught me some things about how abuse conditions and warps those subjected to it. Phoenix, if a person, man or woman, is abused as a child, the child might recoil from the abuse but the child's body might physically respond to the touch. That makes the whole thing worse, because then the child wonders what is wrong with her/him, or believes that somehow s/he "wanted" it. The child's physical response, therefore, might cause that child to question whether he might be gay. Because of that bodily response, the child also might learn to associate pleasure with a same sex encounter, despite it being unwanted. Additionally, the child might BE gay, which the experience makes that clear to the child, who given the ethos and training we all receive in hetero-normativity in our society, might then recoil from and suppress this knowledge, especially as it's associated with abuse.
The only gay man I know who has ever confided in me that he was sexually abused as a child by an older boy is out and proud; he has no problem identifying the abuse as abuse, he does not believe the abuse "made" him gay, and he has never denied his sexuality (although growing up in the machismo of Mexican culture and coming out to his macho Mexican father was pretty rough for him).
One way to address the claim of so many husbands that that they are "bi," is to look at the research psychologists have done--and they have done a lot of research on sexual response, measuring the physiological signs of sexual arousal, especially in relation to the question of bisexuality. What they've discovered is that there are very few men who are bi--far fewer than say they are; most men who say they are bi are decidedly gay--or so their physiological response to males reveals. With women, the physiological responses give less clear cut results--women are more likely to respond to both women and men. (I'm sorry I don't have references for these studies at my fingertips.)

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 16, 2018 5:47 pm)

Scrupulous · August 16, 2018 11:52 pm

Sean you are a gem!
Thank you so much for your input here. However I do have to relate my experience with one of my best friends who happens to be a gay man that is very out and rainbow proud (love that reference lol)
Years ago I remember we cried one night together as he related his sexual abuse as a child. My heart broke for him. I didn't feel he was trying to win me over as he had nothing to gain and had no interest in me from a romantic point...nor I him. If anything, we pick out potential partners for each other. (He warns me of the GID men and I help discern cheaters for him since he wants a true relationship with one man.)
Anyway..in his defense, he was forced into sexual acts before he was old enough to even understand what sex was.
I guess what I'm saying is; I'ts important for me and I must have understanding, sympathy, and mercy for him and many like him. But it gets harder for me to have that same thought to men that are taking women as hostage with lies and deceit. I admire you for admitting your mistakes, owning up to the outcomes and having the courage and taking the time to help others like us see what things are really about. I'm here to help all if possible. And I totally agree with you on so many levels.
Where I stand is to be one of the best and loyal friends to anyone I see fit as worthy regardless of their sexual attractions. Yet I could never trust the loyalty or promise to be loyal to someone who is disloyal to me because of their sexual attractions.
That's why I stay in 'friend zone'. I wish bi-sexual men would leave me the hell alone.They seem to gravitate toward me and I'm not into the halfass bull. I can pick and read em like a book and of course I have a little help from my friends (like yourself where authenticity rules.)
If there is anything you can help with from your end is to advise Bi-sexual men and women I suppose also to stick with their own kind. Let them know that you will not change with marriage and family.
They will get worse regarding their desires and more oppression will bring on rebellion.
Us women deserve the kind of men that love us as a whole woman and don't think about cock (except thier own being in the picture.)
Thankfully I've had the opportunity to date some straight men that have no questions...(Hell they don't even know what the question is..which is even better!) It's like a breath of fresh air!!

Last edited by Scrupulous (August 17, 2018 12:41 am)

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