Oh that totally makes sense.  Yes I agree.  Thanks for the insight.  

UGH I thought I knew much about life and then I am thrown this curve ball!!! 

Thank you everyone for posting. In response to Greyhoud Gal's post: 

1. Can a gay man, when in denial, actually enjoy having sex with his wife? Our sex life seemed genuine to me. Or is it just that he enjoyed sex and it didn't really matter who it was? Does that make sense?

I can only share my own personal experience. I was born gay, married a women, and had sex with her quite regularly at first. Like you, my sex life also tapered off and eventually died when I discovered gay porn and finally had sex with a man. Being a gay man and having sex with a woman was like kissing a female cousin. Yes there was a form of platonic love, but no passion. Kissing my wife was always very dry, very black and white, whereas kissing a man was an all-in IMAX experience. Sex with my wife was always very prim and I wanted it to be over as soon as possible. Sex with my boyfriend is very passionate and just feels right for me. I suspect that while I was young, my body just responded to sexual stimulation...any sexual stimulation. But as I aged, and I'm talking late 30s or early 40s, I simply couldn't pretend to enjoy sex with my wife anymore and it became more and more of a chore. I reckon that once I'd had sex with a man, at age 39, that shut the door my "pretend" sex life and I no longer really had sex with my wife after that. 

In response to LG's questions: 

2. ​Do you think that presenting him with this thread would help him out (at the right time)? We have had two very civil conversations about all of this (so there was no dramatic grandstanding etc).  I did however warn him ahead of time that that behavior would not be accepted.  He listened :-) 

No I don't think gay-in-denial husbands should participate in this forum for several reasons. First, I don't think a straight spouse can play a meaningful role in her husband's coming out process. I married my wife specifically to hide my homosexuality so it makes no sense for my "beard" to coax me out of my closet. (I've often referred to this as the bartender trying to help an alcoholic client get sober...the relationship is just fundamentally unsound.) Second, gay-in-denial husbands are so f*cked up mentally that they'll do nothing here but blame their wives (or child abuse), lie, and repeat how wonderful (or Christian) they are. If you want to read a black-belt gay-in-denial (GID) husband crank out the greatest GID hits, have a look at this thread by Gary: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=12515#p12515. He came here with good intentions but it all boiled down to the same narc-GID bullsh*t: 

a. Blame Shift: We're not having sex because my wife isn't attractive enough, gained weight, blah blah blah. 
b. Minimization: I only fooled around with a guy once...in college. But I'm jerking it to porn 24/7.  
c. Love Me: I'm a really good person and just got back from re-building houses for hurricane victims.  

3. Here is where I am right now, just to give some perspective. I found out about 3 months ago. 
I flat out said, “I think you are gay”.  He has denied it. I basically said, “well I’m telling you, you are gay”.  Then I told him why I think he is gay. 
 
What exactly did you find out 3 months ago? You'll likely never hear "I'm gay" from your husband. The denial is often too deep. Your husband likely can't admit to you that he's gay because he married you solely to hide it. 

4. I have an appointment with a therapist tomorrow (my first) AND she is a Str8 spouse, so I am VERY lucky to be a bit ahead of the game there.  

Good for you. Don't get roped into couples' therapy...he'll just spend the sessions blaming you for his problems while manipulating the therapist. 

5. Here is why I think he is, I'd love to know what you think? (not sure what happened to the bullets) 
 -He does not let me do any of the household decorating.-When we were trying to figure out why sex was not working he said “I am fine around woman who are friends but when I get intimate with one, I get very shy. (we have been together for 14 years, married for 10).  

Ummm...no. When you get intimate with someone, you have sex with them more, not less. Bullsh*t but a nice try nonetheless. 

6. He was very critical of my weight when we first got married (and I was like 10lbs overweight for Pete’s sake).  I think this is more of the narcissistic aspect though. But also critical of the female smells of my body. 

It sounds like he was testing or perhaps grooming you. Narcissists, or perhaps gay-in-denial narcissists, often choose very kind, caring partners but with few boundaries and/or low self-esteem. I too was repulsed by women's vaginal smells because I'm a gay man, straight guys often go wild for it. Just ask our fellow member Kel! 

7. Has ED. He is openly and publicly adverse to homosexuals.  He has been making comments in public regularly lately (since I confronted him). 

Classic red flags. 

8. Very narcissistic, must fight for his way with everything. Love bombing me at the moment (which does make life a bit easier). The thing that really tipped me off is that a man we know openly and regularly flirts with me.  GID says nothing and sometimes gives a bit of a giggle.   

I'd read up on narcissism so that you know the tricks. The love bombing is a telltale sign that he's scared but the "good behaviour" and perhaps even a renewed interest in sex, normally fizzle out in a few weeks or months. With regards to the flirting, I've read about gay-in-denial husbands encouraging their wives to have affairs so they can pull and "We're both cheating" defense. 

9. I have not found porn, text or anything of the sort.  I have however not looked for it hard.  Just basically went through his text, there are none that are suspicious.  I know I should go through the rest, but at this point I am thinking why, I don't need more proof. Maybe, I don’t know, maybe that info could be useful later like in court. 

A wife knows when it's there because you know your husbands. Here are some common signs: late-night internet browsing; very secretive with screens; web history wiped clean; unaccounted for absences; highly defensive about the same; but a few slips over the years with questionable pop ups, websites, adverts or even sex toys/racy underwear. 

I don't have enough information to determine whether your husband is gay or not but you've already made up your mind and taken action. I would recommend you get tested for STDs and if during this honeymoon phase your husband has a renewed interest in sex, which is common when he's afraid of losing you, you should practice only safe sex. I hope that helps. Be well! 

Thanks for the reply LG. If I may say so, you are way ahead of the game here. You've made up your mind about your gay-in-denial husband's sexuality, you've cut off all sex, and you've taken steps to get counseling from a fellow straight spouse. That's incredible progress my friend as many gay/straight marriages are in limbo for months, years or even decades. As I've shared before, my (then) wife and I limped along for about 18 months after I came out to her. I eventually asked for a divorce because the stress of being in a gay/straight marriage was killing us all. I'd encourage you to keep sharing about your journey because for every person posting here, I reckon there are dozens more who are closely following and learning from our mistakes. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (April 25, 2018 5:01 pm)

Thanks Kathyd. Here is a link to my original post in response to your message: 

http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=13777#p13777

And here is the specific section you asked about: 

"4. Bi or Gay ???? Do you know what a church boy is? Someone described himself as a church boy. I doubt it's some guy that goes to church since they were trying to arrange a hookup. Any insight into this bizarre nightmare would be so much appreciated!" I reckon his sexuality is a secondary issue my friend. What truly matters is that your husband is cheating on you, likely with men and women, and has been for many years. So I'd recommend getting tested for STDs as soon as possible and only practicing safe sex. Question: is this the kind of marriage you want? If you are willing to accept an open relationship, which means both of you get to have sex outside of your marriage, you should discuss it with your husband openly and honestly." 

And your most recent question: 

"Sexuality a secondary issue? Oh please share." 

I'm no expert and, as I've shared before, I not a mental health professional. I'm just a gay ex-husband who's been posting here for over a year. The fact is every day men and women divorce for the same reasons straight spouses post here: lying; cheating; lack of sex; and emotional abuse to name a few. I see the gay thing (TGT) as a secondary issue because by the time a straight spouse posts here, her gay/straight marriage is often so God-awful that the relationship's end is almost inevitable.

Let's look at this another way. Imagine your house is literally burning down around you and you're standing at the bottom of the stairs, just about to get out the door, but you've stopped. You're mesmerized because your (gay-in-denial) husband is flashing a strong flashlight in your eyes, blinding you. That's pretty much how I see the gay thing (TGT). Most straight wives have truly terrible relationships already, but they're often blinded by TGT. The house (marriage) is slowly burning down, but it's sort of like thinking your life would still be better if this light (again TGT) wasn't blinding you. That's what I mean by secondary. 

If straight spouses look objectively at their marriages: 

1. Lying
2. Cheating
3. Porn addiction
4. Emotional abuse

and then pay close attention to how all of this is negatively affecting your health: 

1. Insomnia
2. Anxiety 
3. Depression
4. Low self-esteem

many women would already decide to divorce. So why focus on "the gay thing" then? I think it's both a catalyst for action, namely to post here, and perhaps the great final hope. It's a catalyst because a straight spouse can't deny her husband's Craigslist messages, porn habits, or dildo collection. These things all scream "gay" and cut through the depression and/or denial. I wrote the great final hope because most straight spouses come here trying to understand if their husbands are truly gay. And why? I reckon many believe that effectively treating "his gayness" will somehow put the marriage back on track. Sadly this rarely happens. 

So what's my point? Kathyd I wrote "secondary" because I'd urge you to focus on the most important person in this situation: you. Don't let the gay thing distract you from what truly matters: being in a loving, honest and happy relationship. If your relationship is burning down around you, get out, take a chance on yourself, and take a chance on finding true love. 

I hope that helps my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (April 27, 2018 4:26 pm)

Thank you for sharing JK. Great to read another post from you. You shared: 

"Sean, I think your comment that says many believe that we can "treat his gayness"...is a misunderstanding, on your part...many people's part.  Please, correct me, if I am misunderstanding.  I believe that all of these confusions and episodes of cognitive dissonance are a result of an absolute and extreme shock, perhaps some type of PTSD.  When I found out my ex was gay, after 24 years of marriage (and a handful of children), Nothing made sense.  Trying to process that type of shock is almost impossible.  Nothing makes sense.  How could my spouse be gay and I not know it, after 24 years of marriage? I did Not want to "treat" my ex's gayness.  I just couldn't believe that he was gay.  I have family members who are gay.  I'm fine with that.  Did I ever think  my spouse was gay?  Of course not.  I didn't want to "treat" him or make him not be gay...it just made no sense."  

Points well taken! I'm glad that you and your children are over the "shock" stage following your husband's coming out although I'm sorry that your husband is still going through a form of gay adolescence. You then wrote: 

"​My point is that none of us want to "cure" the gayness out of our spouses.  We just need time and support, in order to come out of the severe shock that is like nothing I ever could have imagined.  Worse than the loss of a child.  (Yes, I've lost a child)." 

I'm very sorry for your loss and that you all suffered so much. I will always regret the pain and suffering I caused my children and their mother. I think “cure” was the wrong word. Perhaps “treatment”, “delay” or “denial” would be better terms rather than "cure." From what I recall, you made the decision to separate and divorce so there was a very short "limbo" stage. Other straight spouses who post here, many of whom are from religious backgrounds, still believe that being gay is a treatable pathology, similar to a form of mental illness. So they become participants in a form of gay conversion therapy. Allow me to explain. I agree that when most straight spouses start posting here, they are in shock. I agree with you 100% on this point.

I seem to recall that you shared in an earlier post something along the lines of: "I was willing to stay together even if my husband was just 1% straight [and 99% gay]." This is where I believe we have some common ground. Perhaps "cure" was too strong a word for this secondary stage...with the first being discovery. By "secondary" I mean the limbo stage during which gay/straight couples do everything to stay together because they both fear ending the relationship. He’s mostly afraid of being gay and alone, while the straight wife is motivated by a deep love for her broken husband. So she does her best to put the pieces back together by:

1. Questioning husband's homosexuality, often wondering if he's 'bisexual' rather than 'gay.' 
2. Couples counseling starts either with a priest, pastor, or mental health professional.  
3. Before or during counseling, the gay husband claims porn addiction, sex addiction, or childhood abuse are the causes of his "acting out" or  having sex with men. 
4. She (the straight spouse) continues to investigate, play detective, and pressure her husband to admit that he's been cheating or watching gay porn (or both).  
5. The straight spouse considers a "mixed orientation marriage" or remaining married while her gay husband has sex with men. 

"Cure" was perhaps the wrong word JK so thank you for pointing that out. I think "bargaining" or "limbo" are maybe better terms. Turning now to the issue of his homosexuality being "secondary", what I meant is that the focus is almost exclusively on denying, working through, or otherwise containing the husband's homosexuality. Sadly, the straight spouse's happiness, well being and mental health all take a back burner to working through "the gay thing." Does that make sense? I look forward to your input. 

Be well friends and thanks again for sharing. 

Last edited by Séan (April 28, 2018 10:17 pm)