OurPath Open Forum
This forum is for discussion of issues related to Mixed Orientation relationships only, that is when one partner is heterosexual (straight) and one is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender or Questioning.
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* Opinions posted here, including that of the Administrator, are the poster's own and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of OurPath.
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* Any discussion of LGBT related issues is acceptable provided it remains constructive and respectful of other viewpoints. Hateful, degrading, or prejudiced speech and/or personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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- Jeff W
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
CajunBelle, your post made me feel like I should add some more information.
But first, I can empathize with everything you've written below. I've been on this board long enough to understand the absolute misery and heartbreak of straight spouses as much as I possibly can. Although, having not lived through it myself, I will of course never feel it fully.
You wrote:
CajunBelle wrote:
"The gay spouse's path promises enormous reward: freedom and finding love to look forward to in acting on natural SSA."
The path of a gay spouse in no way promises great reward. All it does is turn LGBT people into angry, self-hating, self-denying, emotionally twisted "pretzels" that lose their integrity and self-respect.
And once they are set free from the straight marriages, their lives are not at all the "blissful, riding off into the sunset." It's often the exact opposite.
Reason being: Gay people who have sacrificed their instincts and integrity to be in a straight marriage are generally emotional basket cases as they come out of their straight marriages. They have hated themselves and lived in abject terror for a long time. And, once their straight marriage is over, they generally remain self-destructive and have many problems with intimacy with other gay people.
They also -- universally -- go through an adolescent phase where they act like immature idiots and make fools of themselves in front of other gay people, who end up rejecting them for acting that way.
While they are being immature idiots, they are either 1. Rejected by other gay people OR 2. They attract gay partners who are equally as messed up as they are. This makes for one of two options: 1. Loneliness from being constantly rejected OR 2. Explosive, horrific relationships with another unstable gay person.
This is not gay life in general! Many "out" gay people are very psychologically healthy. But this is the typical experience of a gay person who has come out of a straight marriage -- as most of these gay people are very psychologically unhealthy.
So, their introduction to being gay is a horror story of rejection, loneliness, and messed up relationships. Some regret coming out, and many see no future for themselves after coming out of their straight marriages. Some become suicidal and even try to take their own lives.
And! To make matters worse, emotionally healthy gay people tend to stay far, far away from unstable gays who were in straight marriages -- especially if the straight marriage was long term.
The reason? "Out" gay people generally don't respect people who chose to live a lie. (Not referring to you, Sean, you've done a lot to grow, etc.) Especially since "out" gay people have had to endure so much hardship as a result of being out and living authentically. They tend to place enormous value on authenticity -- they fought very hard for it -- and as a result, many have very little tolerance for the bullsh*t and baggage that your former spouses bring with them.
Steve's ex-wife's story is a GREAT example of this, please see below.
Steve wrote:
My ex-wife came out as gay... divorced me... and then proceeded to have a series of disastrous lesbian relationships. At least three that I know of. One was even violent and involved a restraining order. She is now single, alone and very embittered. She now claims to be asexual and not attracted to anyone. It's very sad.
Very sad indeed, and I hope that I've adequately and fully explained why this happens. Again, it is not a result of being gay itself. It is the result of having lived as a twisted, closeted individual who chose to stay married to a straight person for many years.
As a result of their choice to be closeted, they tend to have a very limited capacity for close, honest relationships with other gay people. They remain warped, twisted "pretzels."
All of this is to say: Please don't romanticize what LGBT people go through when they come out of a straight marriage. It's quite hellish for most, especially at first.
This in no way negates the absolute hell that straight spouses experience! The experience of one doesn't have any bearing on the experience of the other. I simply wanted to add my perspective, based on my years of observation and lived experience in the gay community.
Steve also wrote:
I'm NOT saying that's the path you would go down or that many, many women haven't made the transition to a happy gay life.
This is also true. Psychologically healthy gay people who end their straight marriages with integrity and compassion for their straight spouse -- these people tend to do well in gay relationships after a few years of adjustment.
CajunBelle, you wrote:
While the gay spouse "set free" from hetero bonds can now look for true love with the enthusiasm of long suppressed passions... many str8 spouses find that they will never be able to trust again which precludes dating/love/sex in their futures (just read this forum.) It's an entirely different outlook than for the GID spouse.
Ironically, the outlook for gay spouses who have been "set free" is often just as dire as what you're describing of a straight spouse: "Never being able to trust again which precludes dating/love/sex in their futures."
Last edited by Jeff W (October 31, 2016 10:38 pm)
- Steve
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
JeffW wrote - "Very sad indeed, and I hope that I've adequately and fully explained why this happens. Again, it is not a result of being gay itself. It is the result of having lived as a twisted, closeted individual who chose to stay married to a straight person for many years. "
I think my ex-wife thought some sort of lesbian utopia existed outside our marriage. I think she was told a lot of fanciful lies by faceless internet lesbians. It's a classic 'the grass is greener on the other side of the fence' type story.
Sadly she discovered that lesbian relationships are no easier than straight relationships. Dare I say it they may even be harder. A lesbian friend of mine once said "If you think it's difficult having one women in a relationship try having two!!"
The woman my ex ended up taking a restraining order out on was particularly dangerous. She cut my ex's phone line WITH AN AXE and wrecked her car. Both myself and my sons were named on the restraining order that this crazy woman had to stay away from.
Again... not saying this is typical... just saying relationships are hard... and the gay world is no exception.
I sincerely hope my ex eventually meets someone nice.... although she says she is no longer looking 
Last edited by Steve (October 31, 2016 11:26 pm)
You have a future. A good one. It begins as a flicker of hope. Nurture it until it becomes a dream and when you are strong enough you will make it a reality. NEVER give up.
- Lake Breeze
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
I for one, appreciate Jeff's contributions, just as I appreciate the contributions of 99% of the people who post here. I do not always agree with everyone, but I do not take it personally, just as their opinion and experience, period. Also, I have always appreciated the posts by the very few gay men who have shown an interest in this board, and I appreciate their comments whether they were married to a straight spouse or not. I do not always agree with everything Jeff says, but it does provide me with a perspective I would not otherwise be able to hear, and it helps me process things and to look at new angles.
Most of us here are hurting terribly like CajunBelle, and it is easy to get caught up in the emotion engendered by other people's posts; particularly if one doesn't find a given post immediately helpful or supportive. When that happens to me, I try to just step back and tell myself it is just another person's perspective, and no more. I can disagree and ignore it, I can embrace it, or I can relate and understand parts of it, but not all of it. It's OK.
I have generally had that feeling that my former spouse was now "free" to go be himself and all that, and have resented it; feeling that I was stuck holding the fallout and negatives of all of this. After reading Jeff's comments, I am giving that idea some new thought. It actually fits with my former spouse, and I have often thought that he would have great difficulty having a relationship with a gay man, after our divorce. I thought he would feel "free" (to be rid of me), but would not necessarily find happiness, yet I was under the impression that most of these guys go on and have "happy" lives with other gay men. I am really chewing on what Jeff said, and re-examining some of the thoughts I've had. I think this is only helpful, whether I agree with all that Jeff suggests or not.
I think it is important that we "broaden" ourselves a bit, and take in what others have to say about this issue. I absolutely love the fact that there are others here who have experienced what I have and I find the ability to share experiences and "commiserate" (sp?) absolutely invaluable, but I need more than that; I need to hear multiple perspectives and "sides", if for no other reason but to help me continue to define mine.
I think this forum would be less "rich" without the contributions of people like Cameron, Sean, Jeff, and Difflurker (who seems to have disappeared and is missed my some, for sure), and I can only encourage them to please keep posting.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott
- Lake Breeze
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
My husband was one who never came out, so I never really got an opportunity to hear anything about his "side" in all of this. I was left completely in the dark about what might have been going through his mind, what he was experiencing, etc. That is another reason, I appreciate the gay men who post here. They give me a lot of information, that I never was, and never will be able to get from my former spouse. They offer invaluable insight into thinking that I would otherwise have no access to.
Those of us whose spouses have never come out are in a bit of a different boat than those who actually were told, got some sort of "confession" or whatever. From what I have read and learned from this forum, those who get a "confession" are generally in a much better position overall, than those of us who never got that "courtesy".
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott
- Rob
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
Sure ..my GIDX has never come out really...thinks it's a secret to everyone..hasn't even told her parents.
I don't know how one lives like that but she's so used to lying now I guess it doesnt matter.
JK, Steve,
Yeah my lezex looks totally miserable the few times I have seen her..I do not relish this..when she's not happy she rages at me. I thought she would be totally euphoric in her new gayland..with her new gay family ...but it doesn't seem to be the case. There is nothing I can do about this..she's burned every bridge..scorched all ground between us. Im trying to get on with my own life..I don't want to know anything that she is doing..dont want to see her. I would have done anything for her but she wanted this woman and life so.much that she practically beat me to have this new life.
I hope to meet someone someday that would like strong absolute love...someone worthy of the strong faithfulness and kindness I possess. Somehow my ex made me feel bad for being a caring and loving person..totally bizarre.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- CES
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
I agree with so, so much of what Jeff writes. My STBX is miserable. He wishes he would never have told me that he was gay. He wishes he could climb right back in that closet.
Part of his "adolescence" was the crush he developed, the crush which caused him to come out to me. I think the attraction for this other guy was so strong that he finally told me. However, here's the scoop: That could have never been a healthy relationship. The crush was a guy about half of my husband's age, a guy ALSO in the closet, another man in denial.
The year of my husband's disclosure: Complete change in my husband: going to concerts, staying out late at bars, watching football...of course, NONE of those things are bad. They all could be great fun. However, that was very new behavior for my husband. He was acting like a young, adolescent boy with a crush. He'd come home late at night, full of excuses and saying odd things. Nothing healthy about that relationship.
He went on a 2-week vacation with that young guy and 2 other friends, all half of my husband's age. He ended up not having the best of times, as the other guys acted so immature and were difficult camping buddies.
My husband has NO IDEA what it means to live as a gay man. The only ideas he has are what he's learned from watching gay porn. Any porn I've ever seen sure has NOTHING to do with real life relationships. That's as bad as letting our teenage children watch porn and calling it relationship education.
I took my husband to a LGBT Film Festival, a couple of months ago. I thought it would be good for him. Just as Jeff wrote, the gay people there who heard our story seemed to empathize far, far more with my struggle. They were so good to me and felt just horrible that my husband had deceived me. They did try to be kind to my STBX, as well, for which I am thankful.
My husband has denied himself his entire life. Now that he is sort of coming out, he seems extremely immature and lost to me. He needs a ton of help and has so much work to do on himself. I'd say that there is a very good chance that he never fully heals from his years and years of denial.
Nothing makes him happy. He goes through the motions of life, but never seems at peace. Even tonight, when he was taking our youngest out for Halloween trick-or-treating, he looked like the most miserable father. Maybe a dumb example, but I can remember so many times when he just looked like he wished he were somewhere else.
I think that he will spend years still running from himself. I am sorry for that. I also know that he feels miserable and tormented by the fact that he has so severely hurt me and our kids.
I think, once he moves out, he will either be very lonely or go back to his adolescent phase. When he was out at the concerts and bars and running around...all of his stories seemed like college party stories. That gets old, really quickly.
I am rambling, but I agree with Jeff that the "coming out" spouse has a tough road. No wonder so many stay in denial.
I'd like to comment, too, on comments I read or hear saying that it's so much easier to come out, these days. I live in a fairly liberal town. My teen son is constantly teased about being gay. He happens to NOT be gay, but he is called horribly degrading terms used to demean gay people. I do NOT believe that middle school or high school is any kinder to gay teens than it was when I was that age.
Sadly for that son, he is being teased at the same time he is trying to make sense of his father being gay. If he were raised by a father who he always knew was gay, this would be a different situation, entirely. He is almost as shocked as I am that his father is gay and having a very hard time accepting that. Plus, he is in a new school, in a new town, just starting high school...and being called awful names, referring to him as gay. Although society, in general, may be more accepting, I do not believe that young teens are even close to being accepting and understanding.
Back to Jeff's post...
I believe that Jeff shows great compassion towards us straight spouses. If you remember, he came here in search of help for a relative, whose spouse had just come out.
My husband is trying to be compassionate, now. I am hoping that his path is NOT tormenting to him. As angry as I can be at him, I do not want him to continue hating himself. If he can learn to be a mature, responsible, good man who accepts himself...that would be a huge step in the right direction.
I'm sure my thoughts jump around too much, but I wanted to comment that I appreciate Jeff's insight. This path is hard for all of us, straight or non-straight.
This explains where my wife is and has been for the past couple of years. She is NOT happy. She is miserable. She hasn't come out to anyone except myself and a couple of close friends. In the name of her "independence" as a person, she started going out multiple times a week, coming home at 4a.m. many weekends. A couple of weeks ago she didn't come home till 7a.m. That has nothing to do with sexual identity, it has to do with being out of control.
So going back to the OP, I think the important thing (as some may have expressed already), is to be decent person. A person's confusion about sexual identity doesn't give them license to then not be married-within a marriage. So your care (which is evident from your post) would eventually necessitate IMHO telling him if the feelings don't subside. Because if you're like me, when something like this gets stuck in your head, you'll mull it over till you actually act on it. Then it becomes hurtful to your spouse if you haven't been open and honest.
Like I said, my opinion. Good for you though, OP, for seeking direction in this.
- Kel
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
Personally, I found Jeff W's comments on what gay spouses go through after coming out very enlightening. I had never really thought before of how twisted the gay spouse is after years of living inauthentically, and how that affects how other potential gay partners would see them as unbalanced and risky. I'm glad to know this, even if for no other reason than to know that they're not really out there living it up as it appears from the outside. We st8 spouses often feel like we got the short end of the stick. We did, in some ways. And so did our spouses. They gay thing isn't something they desired, and they wouldn't choose it in a million years. They are, however, able to choose their actions, and should have had enough love, compassion and caring for us to do what the original poster of this thread has - been as concerned for her st8 spouse as she is for her own happiness.
The topic is the st8 spouse experience. That doesn't mean that you need to be a current spouse of a gay spouse. You can be a past one. Heck, you could have had your experience vicariously through someone close to you. Your input would still be valuable. Everyone here has the choice as to how to use the information they read - whether they integrate it into their own experience and find it useful. I personally welcome gay spouses here. The ones I've seen have been respectful, compassionate, and helpful. I've never seen a single one argue that the gay spouse's journey is more difficult than that of the st8 spouse, or that any of what's happened to us is our fault. I welcome their viewpoint.
Kel
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
- Séan
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
Thanks for sharing Justme. I'm going to try and answer your recent questions:1. Would you have wanted your wife to be honest with you when she was still making sense of everything and struggling to accept her same sex attractions?
One of my ex-wife's first questions was, "Why didn't you talk to me sooner?" She said that she'd known something was "off" for roughly ten years before I came out. She also said that she'd suspected I was gay from the beginning. I tend to believe that our loved ones instinctively know when something has changed in the relationship or when something is bothering us. When I came out, I was actually disappointed when I heard, "Oh I always knew." You mentioned crying a lot which I think is a sure sign that you should continue getting help either through therapy or by contacting other women who have struggled with the same issues.
2. Or would you have wanted her to wait until she felt right about labeling her sexual orientation and knew what she wanted to do about the marriage? Without cheating of course.
I think many would agree with me that the "wait and see" approach is often more damaging than adopting a pro-active stance. In my case, "wait and see" resulted in months, years, and then decades of uncertainty. I waited because I didn't want to divorce. Given what you shared, you clearly have a strong bond with your husband, you enjoy intimacy him, and you come across in your posts as both honest and caring. I tend to think that honesty is the bedrock of a strong marriage. As such, I'd err on the side of honesty with your husband. Yes there are risks in sharing your feelings, but he'll likely say, "Yes I felt something was wrong and am happy you shared these feelings with me." I'd suggest having an honest conversation now before years of secrets erode your relationship.
3. Did being with a woman feel wrong in any way?
In the beginning, I was so happy to be having sex that it did indeed feel 'right.' I think most young couples enjoy lots of sex but our libidos inevitably diminish with age, children, fatigue etc. (There is no greater contraceptive than a newborn baby!) My interest in sex eventually diminished to a point that we were only having sex a few times a year and when we did have sex, I would have to fantasize about men to perform. This was so unfair to my ex-wife who just wanted to be loved and desired. Again it appears that you and your husband enjoy a great sex life so perhaps you fall somewhere else on the sexual spectrum. I am 100% gay with zero attraction to women, the opposite of me would be 100% heterosexual, with bisexual people falling somewhere in the middle I reckon.
4. Is there anything your spouses could have said to you that would have made it possible for you to keep the good memories?
Perhaps it's time to take a deep breath and re-consider your position on discussing all of this with your husband. You seem to think that discussing your same sex attraction will inevitably lead to divorce. (I once believed that coming out would mean rejection whereas I've received nothing but support since my coming out.) This is why I think it's important you reach out to as many people as possible to find a mentor of sorts. Today relationships aren't always just black and white. There are open relationships, polyamory, and many others. Perhaps your husband will be open to some or all of these options. You'll never know until you share your feelings with him.
I hope that helps in some small way.
- Steve
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
Hey CajunBelle
Lots of support for JeffW which is a'ok but I want you to know that this IS a place for straight spouses too and I'm sorry you felt your words were twisted or your feelings invalidated. I'm sure it wasn't done intentionally or maliciously.
This is a public forum so I personally would not describe it as a 'safe' place but I hope you keep posting and find support here from people with similar thoughts and experiences to yourself.
One of the strengths of this forum at the moment is that it really is a mixed bag of people. I've been involved here for a long time and I can honestly say the contributors to the forum have never been more diverse. We have lots of people dealing with CD/TG spouses (which is awesome) and we have a few gay guys posting right now where in the past we have had one or two at the most. Many of our female straight spouses value the insight the gay guys bring. Ironically the one group who have never been successfully represented here are lesbians. The few lesbians that have attempted to post pretty soon get hounded out. Admittedly the lesbians who have posted here haven't been as 'understanding' of straight spouses as the gay guys who post here.
I can completely understand how hearing the gay perspective in all of this can be challenging. There was a time in my own experience when I really was too angry to give any sympathy to my ex-wife, her situation, her community or her 'cause'.
All I can suggest is that you seek support here from people in the same (or similar) place to you in your journey. You won't agree with everything you read here and it's almost inevitable that someone will reply to you occasionally in a way that you don't appreciate. Please try to ignore the advice that misses the mark and take the advice that helps you. I think of it as sorting the wheat from the chaff.
I hope you are ok.
Last edited by Steve (November 1, 2016 7:19 pm)
You have a future. A good one. It begins as a flicker of hope. Nurture it until it becomes a dream and when you are strong enough you will make it a reality. NEVER give up.
- Steve
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Re: How do I talk to my straight husband?
I respect your opinion Sean but having a spouse admit that they have a same sex attraction or... to put it another way... to have a spouse come 'half way out' would be of little comfort to many straight spouses and almost as destructive as coming all the way out.
In fact, when I compare my experience of my ex-wife coming out and asking for a divorce at the same time I think it was a small mercy in comparison to other straight spouses whose spouses came 'half way out' causing their relationship to go into a weird emotional and sexual limbo.
I stand by my advice that Justme continue to explore her feelings with a counselor and be reasonably sure before she discusses it with her husband. As I said before these are words you can't take back. They WILL change things. Think very carefully before you say them.
Last edited by Steve (November 1, 2016 5:28 pm)
You have a future. A good one. It begins as a flicker of hope. Nurture it until it becomes a dream and when you are strong enough you will make it a reality. NEVER give up.