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October 24, 2016 5:02 pm  #21

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

You are right, he's not being a good friend or partner. I've never had a healthy relationship and this is husband number 2. I have an appointment for counseling myself. I know there is much work for me to do to be healthy mentally before I can retain a relationship based on mutual respect. I doubt there is anyone out there for me. I'll have to learn to be content with being alone.


October 24, 2016 5:56 pm  #22

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

Powerful post, Séan.

Last edited by Jeff W (October 24, 2016 5:56 pm)


October 24, 2016 8:08 pm  #23

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

um, I'm just listening to your stories, Jeff & Sean - great thread, thanks.  It explained a lot about how it could start but isn't the closet an inherited situation?

Isn't it a thing that the hurtfully homophobic father can turn out to be in the closet himself?



October 24, 2016 8:17 pm  #24

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

Hi lily,

That's a great question about fathers who display homophobia towards their gay sons -- are these fathers gay as well?

I don't think so.  Reason being, sadly: Homophobia is so ingrained in males -- straight and gay alike -- by society.  Just listen to junior high and high school boys talk about "fags," etc.  It's rampant. 

Men of my homophobic uncle's era grew up during a time when gay people could be arrested just for congregating at a gay bar.  Homosexuality was a crime.  Gay men were considered perverts and child molesters.  They weren't really thought of as human back then.  Police beat them publicly without shame and without penalty.  And then, the police jailed them.  Then, in their prison cells, the gay men were beaten by the guards.

As for lesbians: If congregated in public, lesbians were raped by police, and then jailed.  While in jail, they were raped by the guards.  

If you read gay and lesbian history books, you will see the horror of it all.  Not a pleasant read.  :-)

So, no, fathers who display homophobia are most often straight, although of course a minority of them will be gay.

My uncle has been a notorious womanizer throughout his entire life.  I've seen him lust after plenty of women.  

Fortunately, he's now evolved, and he even has gay and lesbian friends!  But he evolved too late for my cousin to benefit.  The damage to my cousin was severe and already done.

Last edited by Jeff W (October 25, 2016 3:58 pm)


October 27, 2016 8:27 am  #25

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

"Could you explain how your thinking was, during your divorce?  Would any of your perspective help me work with my husband, in the best interests of the children?"

Imagine your husband suddenly and unexpectedly went blind. He just woke up one day and couldn't see. Would you let him drive your kids to school? Of course not. Why then should you let your husband drive your new relationship? I don't know your husband nor do I know his mental state, but I know my own. If I were to estimate where I was applying my brain power during my own 'gay adolescence', it would have been: 

80% sex
10% gay friends
5% work
5% family 

In brief, I'd regressed to being a (gay) teen. During the gay adolescent phase, imagine your husband is now a 13-year-old boy. Do you discuss mortgage payments with a teen son? Do you try to discuss child rearing with an adolescent boy? Is a teenager interested in counselling, divorce, responsibility etc? No, no and no. 

If your husband is like most gay men during this phase of coming out, trying to 'work with' is impossible. So you might consider adopting an approach similar to: these are the rules; I'm going to do this; and you need to move out by [date]. You need to get on with your life...alone. I know it's hard to accept that the man you knew is now gone and never coming back. That's the hardest thing to accept. 

I'm sorry if that felt like a slap. I hope that helps in some small way. 


November 2, 2016 12:44 pm  #26

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

Sean & JeffW,
Props & appreciation to you both for sharing your perspective & stories in an effort to educate & also console. It's incredibly generous of you to share all of that with us as we are all here, heads spinning, hearts ripped out & so desperate for an explanation to this nightmare. Our spouses may never give us the same respect & so, by proxy, it's a wee bit of closure, and I'm sincerely grateful.

So with much respect to you, this is not a personal attack, but it feels like there is still some sort of "justification" to the deceit & duping. What I have a hard time with is the fact that we are talking 21st century, developed world timeline here. This is not the 40's/50's or Arab/Russia & the likes we are talking where people are lynched for being gay and feared for their life. Sure, it's a tough road to hoe, but does that justify an act that in my opinion was more cruel? Marrying someone, having children, stealing their choice and then often, when the gay adult is brave enough or can "no longer deny their desires', show their truth, leaving destruction in their wake? Why wouldn't one simply choose to not be married, even in the 60's/70's/80's, like so many of the LGBT population had chosen to do? 

The pain endured at the receiving end of a GID's fears & insecurities is still somehow minimized thru these explanations. I truly DO sympathize with the LGBT plight, but as ADULTS, with clear choices, away from parents & homophobic upbringing, they need to take FULL responsibility for their choices to deceive. Again, not all gay adults decide to go down the deceit road, so it is entirely possible. And there are STILL people choosing to deceive innocent partners, in 2016.

As a child my mother used to beat the shit out of me, for the simplest of reasons. No one in my life stood up to her or for me because unfortunately that was the era of "mind our own business". My mother always talked about her own father being abusive to her mother & siblings. I understand how childhood conditioning is very hard to steer correct & change course, but it is possible. I, as a mother & adult, decided that I would NOT fall back on this reality I had experienced, faced my demons & put on my big girl pants to do the hard work & be a different parent & citizen. I would not use that hell as an excuse for my weakness.

Perhaps my problem with the explanation is not simply that it sounds like an excuse, but also that it comes from my "What about me?!" syndrome. Truthfully, I think a good 50% of it is just that, but I feel that as long as inhumane behavior can be "explained away", the ease of deceit will never end & no one will heal, including the abuser. 



November 2, 2016 3:09 pm  #27

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

In brief, I'd regressed to being a (gay) teen. During the gay adolescent phase, imagine your husband is now a 13-year-old boy. Do you discuss mortgage payments with a teen son? Do you try to discuss child rearing with an adolescent boy? Is a teenager interested in counselling, divorce, responsibility etc? No, no and no. "

Yes, Sean..  The problem I have even now is my GIDXW is still acting like this but we still have to raise the kids together..  It's very hard discussing teenage kids with a mom who is behaving like a teenager herself.  Its crazy.   Ie..  I try to discipline my kid and the kid simply goes to other house  and says dad was mean to me..  The 13 year old mom then starts texting me like a kid on the playground sticking up for her buddy.      Also the kids had almost two years of their dad getting sworn at and spoken to like crap...they are left with a 13 year old mom and a dad they have no respect for.    

These gay spouses leave so much destruction in their wake.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7

November 3, 2016 5:14 pm  #28

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

Thank you for the story of imagining life on the outside.  I understand completely because this is how my gay husband has left me (straight female) feeling.  He came out of the closet many, many years ago and threw me right in it forever!  He's out of the closet now and living the life he always wanted but I will never get over what he put me and his children through.  I loved him so much and believed he felt the same. 

My feelings for him were completely, utterly unselfish and your story has hurt me greatly and brought it all back how truly selfish it is for a gay man to marry a woman for the reasons you described.  I'm sorry but I cannot feel any empathy for an individual to hide in the closet for the reasons you have described then instil those same feelings on another human being seemingly knowing how it feels. 

I apologies that the e-mail address I have submitted is a false e-mail address as my own address is my true name and as stated earlier, I live in the closet.   I will set up another account and will log in as a newbie for those who wish to respond. Shirley


November 3, 2016 7:59 pm  #29

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

To Sham, CajunBelle and the many others who have posted here, I agree with pretty much everything you've written. We're *ssholes. I'm an *sshole for hurting my family and their mother. Men in general are self-centred, (childless) gay men even more so, and gay-in-denial ex-husbands deserve a particularly hot place in hell. I completely understand that a gay ex-husband sharing "poor me" posts here gets your blood boiling. I get it. I'd be pissed too. 

I'm trying to share a bit of my perspective as perhaps a f*cked up way of redeeming myself. Sham is absolutely right that I wasn't raised in "kill the gays" Uganda or Russia for example. I was a white, middle-class kid, growing up in a stable suburban home. So she's correct to write: "What's the f*cking problem?" No one was wearing pink triangles in my neighbourhood. And yet. The only way that I can describe what I went through is to provide a similar example and this may or may not apply to your former gay spouses. One of my sister's best friends has four kids: two daughters and two boys. Like me, they're all growing up with loving parents, good nutrition, a stable home, and good schools. Three of four are perfectly fine but their second child, a girl who is now 11 years old, recently developed anorexia.  Out of the blue she just stopped eating. Needless to say, they're all freaked out because this doesn't happen to happy families. Somewhere along the way, this beautiful little girl started hating herself to the point that she internalized it. She just stopped eating. 

So what's my point? Being a closeted gay person is something like emotional anorexia. Anyone who hides toxic secrets knows that these things warp you over time. Being a closeted gay person who marries means living with a burning self-hatred for faking it while putting our loved ones at risk as well. I married in a sort of emotional binge because a girl loved me! I was cured!! I didn't want to be gay. I still don't want to be gay. But I am. I was so happy and in love with this woman that I thought my problems had gone away. To draw another parallel, I was like the man afraid of flying who just blocked it out. He forgets about it because he hasn't gone to an airport in 25 years. Gay was just something 'in my past' that I buried so deep. 'Not a problem' I thought. But I couldn't fake it forever because it was killing me. I was constantly depressed. I coped through work, then porn, or spending money. And being married to a woman who continued to love me unconditionally while I so hated myself made me see red. I just want to lash out. I wanted to make things so bad that she'd leave me. I didn't deserve her and hated her for it. I made her life hell for a time. 

Why am I here? Because I'm seeking forgiveness. I'm seeking redemption. I want to convince myself that being gay isn't a choice. I want to tell all of you the things that I'm too afraid to tell the mother of my children. I've told her countless times that I'm sorry but something in me needs more. More forgiveness, more attention, more compassion. So yes you've found me out. Yes I want something from all of you. I want to hear that I'm not a monster, that I did the right thing by divorcing, and that I didn't have a choice. I want to know the pain will eventually stop. I want to stop hurting the people I love the most. 

End of rant. Thanks for reading.  


November 4, 2016 5:10 am  #30

Re: Feeling overwhelmed

Beautifully spokenJK, and a rousing Amen!


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