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October 16, 2016 6:32 am  #1


JKPEACE Q&A

 Thanks for posting JK. In reply:

1. I do not want to offend you or make you feel defensive, Sean.  Actually, my intent is quite the opposite.  I do want to understand, be compassionate, heal...& I hope for the same for my husband.  I appreciate your input here, as you are helping me, immensely...which, in turn, helps my children and even my husband (who I know is also struggling).

​I appreciate that. 

2.  What were you thinking...really thinking...when you married your wife?

​I was very happy...joyous in fact. Until I came out four years ago, I never thought of myself as gay. This is very bad analogy, but it's a bit like someone who doesn't think they have an addiction. I simply didn't see any problems. Yes I watched gay porn for years and near the end of our relationship I was hooking up with me, but I was very much in denial. So to answer your question, I was very happy to be married. I loved this woman very much and looked forward to spending my life with her. 

3.  How long were you married?  

16 years married, together for 25 years.

4.  What were you thinking, when you had children?

​I have three children. For the first two children, I was thrilled to be a father...over the moon really. I suspect my wife got pregnant with our third child as a way to reboot our relationship. By then we were only having sex a few times a year. And she more of less forced me to conceive our last child, a boy. We could both sense the end coming so I was reluctant to have a third baby but she was very adamant we have another. But I'm happy to be a father and for the most part, I didn't think about separation/divorce...even after the birth of our third child.

5. I am questioning every memory from our marriage.  I do not understand why he married me.  I do not understand how I truly believed that he loved me, as a husband.

I think it's normal to re-evaluate any relationship after a break up. For me, this was part of the grieving process. In my situation, the signs were always there that I was gay but I can't stress enough that I didn't think of myself as a homosexual. I only started to accept I was gay when my (then) wife asked me the question. Before that conversation, I just thought of myself as a straight man who watched gay pornography. But the music of our relationship always felt like an out-of-tune piano. Something was always off and sadly I made her feel it was her fault. I was incapable of loving myself which made it impossible for me to love this wonderful woman or our children. I was also lying to myself so naturally I lied to her as well. Up until very recently, there was nothing positive about being gay. While growing up in the 1980s, to me being gay, groping children under bridges, catching AIDS and dying a very gruesome death. This was how the media portrayed homosexuality just 30 years ago. I was actually in Washington DC on a family trip during the very first AIDS march complete with the famous memorial quilt. I believe it was 1987 and I was 15 years old. Those adolescent memories were burned into my conscious that being gay was bad, but being a straight husband and father was good. So I was happy to be the latter.  

6. I am even questioning whether or not my husband ever wanted children.  He has always interacted with them in a kind way...a "nice" way...a black and white, dull, no-joy way...  I always thought it was his depression.  He never looked like he felt joy, not even in big life events, such as the children's births.

I can relate, although I was very happy to have kids, participated in their births, and I think I was generally a good father. I agree with what you wrote about life being black and white. My life was so stale, kind of like food without taste. It's hard to explain the self-hatred I lived with for most of my life. It eroded my soul and I found myself in a terrible depression which I'm only just coming out of. The only way I can explain the process to a straight spouse is how they felt when processing their gay in denial spouse's homosexuality. It's that cold, hands slowly closing around your throat, gut-punch of a feeling. It's that sense of impending doom but so wanting to avoid it. I guess our experiences are the same, hiding, denial, hatred, then hard-earned acceptance. But what the straight spouse feels over the course of a few months or years, the gay spouse experiences over a period of decades. It warped me. It warps us all.   

7. He did try to take good care of us, but there was no joy or feeling of fulfillment, on his part, that I ever noticed. I know that sucked the joy out of life for all of us.  Again, we looked "okay"...sort of happy.  We never looked like full participants in our own lives. After 25 years of that, I really have some work to do to recapture the feeling of living life to the fullest.

​I can imagine.

8. In reflecting upon the way my husband has always acted with me and with the kids, I think he may have felt trapped and in the wrong life, this entire marriage.  Of course, that thought just kills me. I think he married, because he thought he should.  I think he had children,  because he thought he should.

The only thing worse than feeling trapped was perhaps fashioning my own cage...then willingly getting in. Up until very recently, society has always been very hetero-centred. From our first, "Do you have a girlfriend?" starting age 5 or 6, through high school, college, and even now with "Are you married?", I was taught that liking girls was normal and acceptable. Liking boys however was wrong, dirty, and evil. Once married, the natural thing is to have children. And so it goes. Coming out and divorcing went so against the grain. It was the hardest decision I ever made.  

9. I know he feels obligated to do the best he can to support us, post-divorce, but what a mess. What a huge mess:  financially (We went from upper middle class to husband getting himself fired to Medicaid, food stamps, on the verge of losing our home, suicidal son...all in these 10 months post-disclosure), emotionally...on every level, a huge pile of damage to repair. I do think we can do it.  I think all of us here can do it.  I think we can all move forward, into a better future.

​I'm so sorry you're going through this.

10. I am hoping you can help me understand.  I do NOT want to move forward in bitterness or anger. I also want to get to the point that if my husband ever accepts himself and finds peace...that I can be happy for him.    That will be a true amount of forgiveness needed. So, so much excruciating pain and damage and wounding of hearts and souls, at the very core. I think my husband is a broken man, but a good man.  I'm guessing you are, too, Sean...you wouldn't be helping here, if you weren't a good man.

That's very kind and compassionate of you. I'm here because I need closure and in order to get closure, I feel the need to understand what my ex-wife went through. When someone dies, we have a funeral, bury them, and move on. Unfortunately, we can't bury a marriage...particularly when children are involved. My gay/straight break up is like a dead relative coming back via every text message, phone call, or family event. I do feel like a zombie at times although I'm getting better. I've found a degree of closure thanks to a new (gay) relationship and I hope my ex-wife will eventually find someone to make her happy. That's all I have to share for now.

I hope that helped.   

 

October 16, 2016 12:47 pm  #2


Re: JKPEACE Q&A

I think you're doing an incredible job JK in an impossible situation. Better days are ahead. I'm very happy for you that teaching is bringing some joy into your life. You deserve it. I'm terribly sorry your children are suffering. If I could take anything back, it would be the pain I caused my own three children. With regards to your husband, he might be going through what I've heard referred to as gay or delayed adolescence. Following my coming out, this was a teen-like period of extreme self-centredness, moodiness, and immaturity. This was simply too much for my wife to handle and she made the right decision to take the children and get away from me during a time when I was just radioactive. I've read up on 'gay adolescence' and it appears to be quite common when coming out later in life. My (then) wife put up with it for about six months and then moved out. Living apart during this time was best for everyone and forced me to deal with my sh*t. I offered to move out of the family home but she wanted to move back to her hometown which, thankfully, is about ten minutes away from where I live. This was best for everyone.

​So what's my point? During this phase I think you should focus on you and your kids. Your husband needs to hit rock bottom before picking himself up again and anything you do during this necessary (yet painful) process will simply serve to slow things down. For too long after my coming out, my ex-wife and I kept up the illusion that we were a couple. We held hands in public, we went to couples counselling, we slept in the same bed, and we had dinner parties with friends etc. This was so wrong because following disclosure, we were no longer a couple. We simply hadn't accepted it yet. Even after separating, we tried being friends when what we really needed was time apart to heal. EVERYONE told us this but we were hell bent on being the best divorced couple around. It didn't work.

​Incidentally, I've just come back after a Sunday visit with my wife, her family, and our kids. We're very friendly, albeit in a somewhat formal way. We haven't lived together for 22+ months, we've been divorced for over a year, and things are finally starting to settle down.

​I hope that helps some way.  

     Thread Starter
 

October 16, 2016 9:12 pm  #3


Re: JKPEACE Q&A

My ex-wife had an eating disorder as well. She was bulimic. That is a very strange coincidence indeed JK. Again I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Many have shared on this website that their gay spouses were narcissists, demonstrated narcissistic tendencies, or had developed full-blown sociopathy. From what I understand, these are simply different degrees of the same illness: self-absorption to the point that an individual no longer sees nor understands that others have emotions. We live only for ourselves. Following therapy and a lot of reading about this, I believe that I myself demonstrated a lot of narcissistic tendencies while in the closet. ​Over a lifetime of self-loathing, this was my armor, so to speak, within which I protected my homosexuality.

Coming out shattered that armor. Over the past four years, I've worked very hard to re-learn normal communication skills, feel my emotions again, and develop a semblance of empathy for others (like my ex-wife). It's taken a very long time but I'm on the right track I reckon. But it's still a struggle. Sharing here is helping immensely and I thank you for reaching out. So why am I writing all of this? I want you to understand that what you're going through isn't your fault.

​Narcissists inevitably find co-dependent partners. While the narcissist is emotionally detached, cold, and often calculating, the co-dependent is a kind, generous, and caring person who lives almost completely for others. This doesn't make either of us bad people, it just makes us a very perfect and a very f*cked up match. I'm not a professional counsellor but I believe my own narcissism was borne largely from hiding my own homosexuality. I so hated myself that I became a validation junkie, seeking approval in any way possible. This meant hitting the stage in grade school and high school, desperate for applause. It meant being the best son for my mother; the best student possible; the best employee; the best dressed; having the best home; clothes; body; and (later) obsessively seducing other men. After coming out, I had such a relentless need for validation that I got from sex for a time. But external validation for the narcissist is like a drug addiction - it's never enough and I needed ever increasing doses of approval to survive. Love must come from within, I've learned. So it's not surprising that I met and married a woman who was my biggest fan and greatest defender. As the daughter of an abusive/alcoholic father and co-dependent, manic depressive mother, my wife's attraction for me wasn't love. She was simply attracted to a damaged man who she thought she could 'save.' She was and remains a saint who still lives for others. She'd had a lifetime of training to keep secrets, deny the truth, and the poor girl only found solace via an eating disorder (bulimia). In essence, she'd become her mother and I played the role of her (mentally) abusive father.

​Why am I sharing all of this? When you wrote that you suffer from an eating disorder that has recently come back, it made me wonder if there is a common thread among all of us. If so many gay ex-husbands are narcissists, could most of the straight spouses be co-dependents? If so, that would explain why my ex-wife felt like she was the only person who understood me and could 'save' me. I think this is why she held on for so long...perhaps too long. For a time, she thought she could 'pray the gay away' which is impossible of course. While she thought she was saving me, I believe she was clinging to a damaged man in a f*cked up belief this was love. After all, that's all she had seen since childhood. Now divorced, I've been very open about my narcissism with her and apologized for all of the things I'd done. I was very careful not to label her a co-dependent again because that would feed a narcissistic need to be in control and feel superior. I talked about narcissism while apologizing for all of the sh*tty things I'd done during our relationship. She reached that conclusion herself I believe and has since gotten  professional help on her own.

Both her mother and aunt married alcoholics. She, her sister, and both female cousins all married narcissists - one of whom was a dangerous sociopath who recently committed suicide. All four divorced. I can now see that the various ex-husbands all had different degrees of the same malady: narcissism. All of our ex-wives apologized, protected, and explained away our problems. In my case, my then wife did her best to help me but that only slowed my descent into sex addiction and thoughts of suicide. I was drowning and would have taken everyone down to the bottom with me. The only way out was to be thrown a raft and left to sink or swim on my own. I chose to swim.

​I hope that my post doesn't come across as sanctimonious. I fear that I've hijacked your thread which is a very self-centred thing...I guess once a narcissist, always a narcissist. Your brave revelation that you have an eating disorder took me back to a cold December morning in a steel-grey kitchen when my (then) wife had her own version of coming out. She nervously shared that she was binge eating at night. That was her version of coming out. It all clicked in my mind. The rush to the bathroom after countless Sunday dinners. The obsessive calorie counting. The diet books. The puddings for lunch. It was one of the few times I was capable of putting aside my own issues. Binge eating finally became, "I'm bulimic," then therapy, and finally healing. I guess we were both hiding secrets and grappling with our own inner demons.

​JK I don't quite know how to end this rambling post. Please please please take care of yourself FIRST. This means sharing here, contacting fellow straight spouses, or getting professional help. Without you, there can be no family, nor a home I reckon. If your husband is like me, right now he's radioactive and he's very likely about to go through an even worse phase of hypersexuality. This means you can't protect him without sacrificing both you and your children. You can express love and compassion for him. This just means you're a good person. But what worked in my situation was taking active steps to live separately so that I could deal with my sh*t on my own. And this separation gave my wife the breathing space to heal as well, without also trying to heal me.

​I hope that helps in some way. Thank you for letting me rant!       

 

 


  

    

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