Ellexoh_nz wrote:

Talking to the 'other' side

I see we have another gay man who has been accepted on the forum. Instead of putting this in his thread I'm adding this in here

And I wonder if he's also on an LGBTQ forum talking about his 'gay hurt'....talking to other LGBTQ men and women....or is it easier laying your life out for people to read on this forum because this is where the hurt spouses come and it might  be too alienating to to say "yes I'm gay but.....we're hurting people with our gaslighting and dishonesty.Let's have a discussion about it" 

I could have posted in Buck's thread but when saw he had a link to a TedX talk by Emily Reese (RIP) in an earlier post, one which I myself watched almost 4 years ago....I watched it again. This is an excerpt from that talk. In it she speaks directly to the straightspouse but she had this to say to the LGBTQ

" Be humble and do what you can to make amends. You can't go back and change anything" 
" What we need to hear is true humility because we know it when we hear it" 

So since we have another gay man on the Forum maybe he can tell us if he's, as well as opening up here (which is as we all know a soft place to fall amongst men & women who know how you feel)...also talking to the 'other' community too. Because that is where the change, more humility, has to happen as far as I'm concerned.

Elle

Hi Elle. I have discussed my situation on a smaller scale in a couple of gay chat groups. They always contain married gay/bi men who get super-defensive. And there are plenty of gay men who fetishize "straight-acting," a controversial term among LGBTQ+ communities because it's considered self-loathing. However, I was surprised to learn the same thing has happened to a few of my friends. One said he was duped by married men twice who said they were divorced when not. Another said that he was duped before, so now he does not get involved until he is invited into their home. If they can't host, then that's a red flag, even if they have a plausible excuse.

However, there are a TON of married men on the hookup apps who are up front about being married, and plenty of gay or bi men who will hook up with them. They need to be educated about the impacts and shamed by their friends so it doesn't happen. I have a theory about the married men who do not disclose their relationship status. Those are the men who are looking for more than sex. They're looking for an emotional connection. Steve, who said he was divorced, was very affectionate and adoring early in the relationship. And in hindsight, he got right down to the lovey dovey touches, the sweet nothing chats, the gooey good night and good morning messages. I usually take a little bit longer, but the vibe was good, so I went with it. However, I was the one who brought up being boyfriends first. He was a little hesitant, which I thought was odd because he was already very much playing the role, but after some thought, he said he'd be happy to be boyfriends.

This experience has made me much more introspective. I do think there needs to be some sort of educational campaign about the impact closeted married gay/bi/trans spouses hooking up with LGBTQ+ people outside their marriage has on straight spouses. Perhaps an alliance with the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), or some other national LGBTQ+ organization, because there would be a benefit to both sides of the equation. First and foremost, these closeted individuals need to not be closeted, especially not to the point they feel the need to enter into heterosexual marriages without disclosing their sexual orientation and/or gender variances.

There's quite a discussion in LGBTQ+ media about bi erasure right now. The concern is gay and lesbian people not recognizing bisexuality exists. These conversations make me a little frustrated, though. I do believe bisexuality exists, of course, but I believe the biggest source of bi erasure are bisexual men and women. Do you want to know why? There's a double standard. Bisexuals, particularly bisexual men, who I have more experience with, will disclose their bisexuality to their same-sex partner. But, if they get into a relationship with an opposite sex partner, they won't disclose. And too often they will choose an opposite sex partner for a long-term relationship because that's what society wants them to do. That's fine, but if they do it, that opposite sex partner needs to know that the person is also attracted to the same sex. Bisexuals can be monogamous, but I think closeted bisexuals aren't able to express their emotions fully, and so they might be more inclined to act out by cheating.

Finally, I want to add that the default stance in LGBTQ+ communities is outing someone is bad. I agree with that 100% when that person is not harming another. But, if the person's closet is harming someone else, then outing should be acceptable. I think gay men like me, who are duped by a closeted married man, are reluctant to out him for fear of being shamed for taking away that person's right to disclose his or her own sexuality. I think it's time for this attitude to change. No, I don't think you should out a married person who is questioning his or her own sexuality. But if he or she is actively engaging in sex and relationships outside the marriage, then the straight spouse has a right to know. If it were a heterosexual affair, and, for example, the other woman thought she was dating a single man and then found out he was married, do you think she would go to the wife and let her know her husband has been cheating? If so, I think this action would be applauded. But not when it's a same-sex affair.

I have thought about doing an "other" other blog or forum board. It was hard to find resources for my situation. But yet, just based on the little bit of social media and personal chatting I've done on the matter, it appears to be a widespread problem.

Last edited by buck67209 (November 16, 2020 8:37 pm)

I hope I’ve got this right. When I first saw the post by the new gay guy & everyone was answering him, I was questioning the validity of him being allowed to post here. I realize he was trying to get help from the prospective of the “other” side. However, this is the ‘STRAIGHTSPOUSE’ network. We ended up getting involved in a lot of his gay feelings...really strong ones, too. That isn't something I'm looking for when I get on this forum. I think this is what Elle was referring to (hope I got this right) when she first posted about it. 
BOTTOM LINE: This forum is for STRAIGHT spouses to post. I know we’ve made a few exceptions, but those were for people who were HELPING straight spouses with their non-straight spouse situations, not asking for help with their own problems.
I don’t mean to cast anything negative about his posts, but they should be on another forum, not the STRAIGHT spouse forum, as he is not a straight spouse.
I hope this wasn’t too blunt.
thanks

Last edited by SusanneH (November 17, 2020 5:31 pm)

Hi Buck—I think you did the right thing. I would absolutely want to know if my husband were putting my physical & emotional health at risk. Who wouldn’t?!

Thanks, Buck. The last gay person who joined got a lot of flack & she was only on one thread, and was answering questions of straights who wanted to know answers from a lesbian’s point of view that succeeded in a MOM. She’s only posted on that thread. Thank you for staying on ‘your’ thread & I hope everything works out for you.

Thank you for your thoughts on not duping spouses. That’s refreshing. 
 

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

You do have it right, and I'm opposed to gay men posting here. Some of the members think Sean has the answers but they are wrong. I find him condescending. Why is he not starting up a conversation in his LGBTQ community? He's not because it's easier to do it here, where he gets no censure, just praise.

I know my view won't be popular but in my opinion Sean and Buck should team up....and take it to the people doing the hurting. Not coming here and telling us what we already know

Elle
 

I appreciate Buck's forward efforts on working to stop the lying; otherwise I completely agree with you Elle. This should be a forum for straight spouses/partners. The few others who post here aren't representative of that group and shouldn't view their input at all as such.

"This is a worldwide problem." The LGBTQ+ community should have worked on its responsibility decades ago and recognized its actions toward straight people as a foundational characteristic/component of its community. After decades, it still completely erases it, and everyone else along with them. It shouldn't be the responsibility of the one who's been lied to and gaslighted for decades to "absorb it" while the public celebrates their liberation with them, and then goes on to ostracize the straight partner as generally hateful for attempting to make peers aware of the hidden decades of emotional abuse. Most of the public strongly shuts down even the hint that a straight person has been abused by and LGBTQ person-- let alone that anything needs to change so that straight people are protected from it happening.

Of course I still find it horrible after reading a few months ago, for example, that Elton John's ex-wife changed her identity and has gone to therapy periodically for 30 years since their divorce while he's been accoladed with success the entire time, even if he "[feels] badly for any hurt" he may have caused her. Token response. And that the recent film spotlighting him casts aside what was her genuine truth of life.