Susanne wrote:

Just remembered something else his therapist suggested for me: 
It isn’t healthy for me to be on these forums. I guess he just want me to be in the dark about it all and become a little quiet mouse that has no say-so on anything. 

Well that's very odd, close to bizarre actually. I have the impression that therapist has no clue whatsoever about the situation. First that total lack of empathy and now this.
Does he know your constructive stance to go for your marriage and your intentions to read and write on forums? Or does he just assume things? In Dutch we say "“to hear the clock strike, but to not know where the clapper is".

This must be very anoying to you. I hope the therapist is just ignorant and isn't informed very well. Still it's stupid he very easily seems to jump to conclusions about you.

(Tomorrow I'm very busy with my job, but I'll respond later to your other posting, (and explain about the "quote thing" ) when I have more time to write).

Dutchman & Elle,

Thanks. Exactly what I thought. The forums are support for me. Talking  you those of you who have been through this is good for me. I've been in AA & Al Anon (both my husbands were/are in AA & so am I --I was a VERY high bottom drunk...was a buddy drinker with my first husband.) So, I'm used to this type of support. In AA, we say: we don't give advice, but share our experience, strength and hope. To me, that means, I take what I need and leave the rest. I also try NOT to give advice if I can help it, and NEVER (hopefully) tell someone they HAVE to do something. So, as long as I do things this way, I see no harm, but only help. If it weren't for the forums, I would have been totally lost.

And, the therapist is on Betterhelp.com, which I have also gotten therapy through, so I can just get on their site/app & send him a text ;). And, I plan to .

Thanks again!

Last edited by SusanneH (August 7, 2020 10:48 am)

Hi Susanne,

I was driving home, thinking about what you wrote. The experiences you had and have with therapists (some aspects shared with our own experience in that regard).

It's as if people (therapists, but actually most people in contempory culture) secretly/unknowingly consider non-straight spouses as victims. Not able to make choices and descisions about themselves. "They have this non-standard sexuality, and by that they are willingless creatures that have to follow their sexual feelings".
On the surface it looks like they are so much understanding and supportive, but actually they are reducing them to some kind of lesser beings than the "straight species". 
Because from "straights" it's expected to have a moral compass and will power to steer away from cheating and adultery, but... those other kind of people, the "non-straights", ahhh... they are so weak and powerless. The poor things can't help themselves, and it's considered an insult to ask them to have reponsibility over their own lives and marriages. For that would be denying their identity and so forth.

And it seems some (is it some or a lot?) of the non-straights buying into this narrative. I also read about bisexual men in monogamous marriages complaining about their straight spouses not allowing them to have sexual encounters with men next to their marriage. And it's such a hardship they have to endure... They focus on what they don't get to have, and seem to consider themselves as some sort of victim. Too often they convince their wife, she should feel sorry for the 'sad victims' they seemingly are are married to. By that she becomes a victim too, a victim of her love and collobarating with the message that non-straights are a different and weak kind of humans. Appearantly different rules have to aply, because it's a different kind of human species.
Or... so it seems.

Well, I/we don't adhere to this line of thought. Non-straight spouses are not a different and/or weak strain of being human, they can make their own choices (and they can!) But they have to get rid of the being victim of their sexuality that is taught to them and they themselves got somehow convinced of. That is my impression if I read those "I can't help myself, but... stories". It's like they didn't get a part of adulthood, taking responsibility over own actions and choosing a way in life according to the own free will.
Instead culture and (media, therapists, etc), are confirming the inability of non-straights to be free and make own choices. Because... sexual feelings must be obliged at all times. 
But there is a strange inconsistency, do they apply this also to straights? What if I, straight man would go after much younger girls besides my marriage, proclaiming my sexual orientation is responsible for my actions, would I get that same sympathy in the media or general opinion??? 

It's not about choice of sexual orientation, it's about moral conduct. But these two totally different things often get blurred and are mixed up when it comes to non-straight spouses in MOMS.

Point is, media/culture/opinion generaly stimulates non-straights to feel like victims, unable to do anything else but follow their feelings and taking their choices from them. Some come to believe this themselves, actually become victims of their own thoughts. It's reducing the value of the non-straight person, not helping them to grow as a person, but quite the opposite.

This "making choices" is actually at the heart of my wife's story. Sure, it may have been confusing, feelings stirred, and all kinds of things that played over the years. But at the center is 'choice' and the will to make choices, and like the opposite of being a captive victim that has no freedom.
When my wife spoke to a friend of hers recently, this friend said that aspects from my wifes experience reminded her of a book she had read of Edith Eva Eger, title "The choice" (well... a obvious link ) 
So my wife bought and read it last month (subsequentially I read it also). It's a very impressive and touching book, as Edith Eger is an Auschwitz survivor. This also may seem way out of the experience of the (potential) reader, but the life lessons the writer learned coping are so very worthwhile to read for everybody. Because it addresses right that very important aspect: the choice to NOT be a victim. To reclaim your life as a free person, by realizing it's your own choice to do so. 
Much of what she writes resonated deeply with us. I think many can benefit from what she writes in the book in all sorts of ways, so I recommend it highly!

I have very much respect for how you coped with all that happened the last couple of years. And obious feel angry about the ignorance displayed by people like that therapist. Still you mention hopeful things, like your husband  feeling good about living honestly. That's very good, because that's on the track he has to expand. The choice for another way of life where he can be proud of himself and real love becomes his legacy instead of the silly things of the past he went for.
But there is still a way to go. I see the shortcomings in what you describe and understand what your're looking for is not there yet.
What can I say? Have patience, try not to be to hair triggered... Well I hope, but you know that for yourself. You're not perfect and have your limitations. But hey, I'm not perfect either but we got there eventually. Maybe you and I are not as efficient as we idealy could be, and maybe things take longer because of that. It's part of it all.


About the "quote":

Put in your text the string [ quote ] (without the extra spaces I used, because if I would omit these spaces now, it will show up as a actual quote block).
After that put in the part of the text you quote from the other post.
And end it with: [ /quote ] (again without the extra spaces arround the square brackets)

If you do this right, the quote block will show in the resulting text.
You can check this before you actually post, by clicking on the "Preview" button (instead of the 'submit' button). You can check if the text (including the quote blocks) is actually what you meant to post. (and correct it if it's not, nothing actually posted, no harm done).

[ quote ]
The quoted text goes here
[ /quote ]

If you did it correctly (without spaces around the square brackets) it should show up like:

The quoted text goes here.

When you want to make a quote block that also displays the person you're quoting:
Put in the text [ quote=nick ] where 'nick'is the persons forum name, like 'Dutchman'. (without the extra spaces)
After that type (or copy paste' the text you want to quote.
And the rest is the same as for the normal quote block. So end it with [ /quote ] (without the extra spaces)

Dutchman wrote:

...The quoted text.

I hope my explaination is clear enough?

Last edited by Dutchman (August 8, 2020 1:52 pm)