Steen, hello.

I'm a gay man.  The thing about your story that stands out the most to me is this:

"Over the years, I feel that may be the reason for many women to become her friend, then they suddenly establish a distance towards her.."

I've known many lesbians throughout my life.  I will tell you this, what you described above, about your wife's female friends suddenly distancing themselves from her -- that is very common with lesbians and their straight female friends.  

What happens is, the lesbian becomes more and more preoccupied with a female friend, wants more and more intimacy, and this makes the straight female friend uncomfortable.  So, the straight female friend usually speaks up, even in a very subtle way.  When the straight female speaks up, the closeted lesbian becomes extremely hurt -- hurt in the sense of having been rejected by a lover.  The straight female friend senses that something is very "off," and abandons the friendship.  Rinse and repeat.

Even if your wife is actually acting on her desires with other women, many closeted gay and lesbian people have ways of rationalizing their behaviors to themselves.  With their rationalizations, they actually convince themselves that they are straight.  Your wife may very well be doing this.

Steen, everything about your story sounds like you are married to a lesbian.  If you can't leave her without proof, then you'll probably have to snoop for it.  She sounds extremely closeted, perhaps she's even closeted to herself.  She may not be able to admit to you (or even to herself) that she's a lesbian.  

She's lost, and she's made it abundantly clear that the journey to finding herself won't include you.  Her emotional landscape doesn't include you.  Her sexual desires do not include you.

Steen, you sound like an extremely loving, caring, and patient man.  I hate to think of you suffering with her for much longer.  She doesn't care about your needs, Steen.  I'm sorry to say it.  Please know that there are many women out there who would be beyond happy to have such a loving husband.

Last edited by Jeff W (October 23, 2016 1:43 am)

Hi, Rob.

Reading your posts, wow.  Your ex-wife does sound like a raging narcissist.

Steen's wife though, not so much.  She doesn't come across as a raging, narcissistic person.  His wife sounds extremely closeted above all else.  

Rob, I don't know how many lesbians you've known in your life, besides your ex-wife.  I've known at least 100 or so.  So I'm not sure that you've witnessed lesbian women do exactly what Steen's wife is doing, time and again.  These lesbians -- whether married to men or not -- scare straight women away left and right, until they understand what they're doing.

A lot of lesbians even make inside jokes about all those years that they wasted:  Wanting straight women who they could never have and who they would scare off left and right.

Oh, and I should add: A lot of times, the straight women didn't realize they were dealing with a closeted lesbian friend.  They just thought that the lesbian was a very needy, clingy, weird (but assumed straight) female friend.  

The straight female friends were clueless about why their lesbian friend acted strangley, nearly always.  They assumed she was straight, as they are, but just strange.  Which is why they couldn't inform the husband, as they had zero understanding of it themselves.

Last edited by Jeff W (October 23, 2016 1:28 pm)

First, thank you for the continued responses.

There has been development, and I will tell soon when ready..

My last week has been the weirdest in my life, and I want to express my deepest respect and love to Billie...
You are one of the most amazing persons I have met. Your insight and well use of the "brilliant" one, was of high significance and helo to me.

I just wanted the forum to know.

My love and respect.

Steen wrote:

 I want to express my deepest respect and love to Billie...
You are one of the most amazing persons I have met. Your insight and well use of the "brilliant" one, was of high significance and helo to me.

I just wanted the forum to know.

My love and respect.

I second that..  Billie has been my angel of the last couple of weeks.  Thanks so much!

Hi everybody,
I wanted to give you an update on my story.
 
I wrote earlier (OCT 16) about my "suspicions"; feelings, instincts, thoughts about my wife's sexual orientation, after years, first noticing, then observing, later also expressing thoughts and addressing the matter with her.
 
Before last October, we had very little shared between us as a couple confirming even the slightest sexual admiration for female looks, bodies, personalities etc.
 
I wrote here and are forever grateful and fully loaded with respect for the written effort of you people, one dear person even called me at the time - felt like the only friend I had in this situation, the best friend a person can hope for dealing with these suspicions.
 
There are so many details I would like to share. I am still in the middle of it. I feel sharing information is of immense value. I read your posts thinking how good you are to express, share and comment on these issues. Even though you do not know her, or me, I put faith in your insight and highly value your efforts, and earlier, this gave me the necessary will and strength to ask my wife again. Previous attempts at this had failed.
 
I have found it hard to describe here. Even towards myself, I find it difficult to determine what is relevant or not. Small things to matter, “bigger” things seem artificial and “wishful thinking”, maybe from either one of us. What is said is not always how it is. And how things are said they are NOT, seems often closer to the truth.
 
Main problem is her strong wish NOT to talk about this.
 
Second problem is my wish to justify my question(s). Asking myself – have I the right to ask these questions..? Where is the borderline between what is to be shared and what is rightfully to be kept private..?
 
When I started talking with her, her "auto" responses of denial were the same. I got more "intense" (thinking I will not leave this before I get an answer, gut feeling pushing me hard). Also I usually remember more details than her, as well as had so much "empirical" material, then she suddenly admitted something, never before told.
 
At first she broke down, started crying and was totally smashed… I thought, now she will tell me something..
 
No. She said it was an emotional response to how I felt or something. She was crushed about me bing sad about these issues, I don’t even remember. Then, a day or two later, she admits there was a story she felt ashamed about;
On a business trip she had been on, back then some years ago (where I felt something had happened). Her colleague had told her, late night bar talk, about an incident of girl sex when she was young. My wife had afterwards an experience of strong sexual arousal that night, picturing her female colleague and herself in a threesome, and was very turned on by this. Still, she says it was only that (see another forum thread "asking for a friend-- is this "proof" by Billie)
 
We continued our talks, and I strongly felt it was more to tell, but it was a very difficult time.

Please note, I think there was little reason to consider this story a "big issue".
 
Later we talked about another specific incident, I asked her about a dinner where her focus had been fixed on one particular girl all night. "Having read about it" she said, it could be she was attracted to women. And then may be bisexual.
 
Me asking further about this, she told me about several persons that she had admired during the years. For the record, I wrote these down. When bringing this up just recently, she began questioning these, and the significance of these persons.
 
I told her I did not make them up, she had told me, then she tells me it was just maybe a distance admiration regarding a couple of them, absolutely no sexual thoughts etc. Not all of them was people she liked.. (?!?)
 
She resisted my wish to talk in many ways. I thought it could may be a relief to see the cat out of the bag, but no. I said, I pose no threat, but can we talk, as a couple, trusting each other..?
 
I think I learned about gaslighting. It was really enduring and I worked hard to keep my mind straight. Confusing is not an exaggeration…
 
Later she told me another story, that a colleague had made a pass on her, on a later business trip, same year as the earlier story. Her colleague had shocked her with her direct approach; touching her and kissing her in a restroom. My wife left the restroom, went to her room, then decided to return back to the other woman's room where they started touching each other. Immediately after, she says, she pulled out and went back to her room.
 
I say I find this hard to believe, that she aroused, walked back to the other woman, and managed to stop.. And this after weeks of fantasies about this woman. But, of course, this could be true, as in why would she tell this story, if it did not happen this way. If more had happened, she could have avoided the story, I would not know.
 
Again, I find this story not necessarily a “big issue”, at first a little disturbing that she went back to try, although she “aborted”. But, we can make mistakes, right?
 
I tried to ask how thing went from there, how did she feel, how was the relation with this woman at work, how did she feel coming home etc. I say; must have been difficult.
 
Nothing. No thoughts or nothing to tell. Only that she isolated herself more.
 
I feel there was no wish to tell these stories me. At this point, we still have difficulties talking about the things that has been disclosed. It is all good to talk about sex, desires, fantasies etc, and I feel those fantasies are necessarily no threat to me and us, but when it comes to what this means in everyday life, she closes up totally. And failure to talk about it feels to me as a warning lamp..
 
The main thing that made me ask her about her sexuality was the way she seemingly checks out women, in public, with her eyes. Seems like she gets attracted, not comparing herself to them, as it seems to me. It was (and still), is the way I have felt/sensed what I feel is her desires.

I have also seen her get eye contact with a few, and to me, my gut feeling says curiosity and mutual interest. She has also confirmed it has happened, and that made her curious. But it "happens no more", and has not happened "all the time" etc.. 

Regarding this attraction in our everyday life, I am still confused. She likes to keep it down, as it does not exist, it is not important, as she loves me and wants to stay together. Even though, she has confirmed she likes to look at people, both men and women. "But not in a sexual way."

This everyday attraction seems to have included people in our life. Attraction and sexual thoughts about various women. She says there is no such thoughts about people we know, still she has confirmed some people has turned her on, and been reason for sexual fantasies. This includes both women, and very few men (feels as a clear female majority to me). So I am left with little clear understanding of what is and is not.
 
Our life has gotten smashed into so many details. It is unbelievable. I did not mean for it to become like that. I feel I am an open minded, tolerant spouse. But, I appreciate communication. I say, you can look at other people, e.g. women. But let me in. But this may seem naive and like a self contradictory behaviour...(?)
 
Confusion extends to details, and choice of words. If I say the slightest detail different from earlier (e.g. saying she liked a person rather than admired or vice versa) there is a totally different meaning. When I suggests she likes womens' butts she says she can get turned on by a curvy nice butt, but never seeing one in public. So they turn her on, but she is not attracted to people with curvy bodies (?).  She takes my words very literally, and usually only my last sentence as reference when answering, rarely see the picture as a whole (my previous sentences..).
 
My remaining issue really is. I get she has been attracted to women. I know they turn her on. But to me it does not seem as a pure fantasy related issue, like what porn she likes to see etc. To me it is about her admiring people around us. "Openly". Checking them out. Their breasts. Their bodies.
 
My reason for asking was not any "proof", like stories she has told me, but my gut feeling of not being "her MAN", feeling as her devoted love. I felt she was seeking around. Searching for that right person to acknowledge her. Maybe love her, I don’t know. A restless feeling.
 
Now it feels she does everything in her power to avoid me thinking she is a bad person. If I have the slightest feeling of being frustrated, she soon jumps to being «the bad person» here, and she is to blame. I say, I want to understand, not blame. This concept is unfamiliar to her. I dont want to discuss these details either, but it was actually small details that got her talking. I hate these details, I want to talk about the big picture here - bisexuality is not a decease or a real problem.
 
We have seen several therapists. Weird and very confusing is that it is seems to turn back on me. Like as if the therapist understands her, says she probably has some anxiety related to this, and I have to understand, and back off.
 
And my question; I want to understand what is going on in our marriage, seems to bounce off like a question I am not entitled to ask. I say: I want to talk, to understand. But I am asking too much of her. Making it difficult for her (!?).
 
I have not judged, not been angry about anything other that she is all silent. And she has lied to me. So I feel it is only legitimate that I ask her about this.
 
I feel I am a mess right now, maybe my writing is just the same. Please, ask me if I am unclear about anything..
 
All in all, to me it seems as one day she is bisexual, the next day not. That feels so confusing, even though I have said I have no problem with bisexuality…