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August 21, 2019 3:57 pm  #1


Found after Deceased

Hi, all. I hope you will still accept me. I am not a spouse, but I am a daughter. I hope you will allow me in here because many of the emotions I am feeling, I am feeling them in defense of my mother, who has recently passed away. So, I am looking for wisdom from you all from that aspect as well. Here is my story in a nutshell: 

I am 29 year old only child of two parents who were together for 38 years. I was incredibly close to my parents. I had deep, meaningful, respectful and loving relationship with them individually, but we were also so close as a family. We were a team, supported each other always, and spent A LOT of time with each other. I thought we had no secrets and that I had a pretty perfect upbringing.

My mom died a few years ago from cancer. It was devastating. I was young (25) had just married the love of my life (quickly so that mom could be at the wedding happy and healthy!). As she was sick, my father took care of her and never left her side. Losing her was brutal for me, but it was worse on my dad. My dad was devastated for the next 3 years. He was broken. He spoke about her all the time - for hours if anyone would let him - put photos up of her all over the house, had her as the background of his phone and computers, had a chalk board in the kitchen that said "I love you (mom's name)" - the outward signs that he adored his wife were obvious, and I had never questioned their marriage in the past. He cried for years after she died - I'd never seen him cry before, but it became normal. He told me that he just wanted to "drink in front of the television" until he died. He said he would never be the same and that he wants to be happy but doesn't see how he could ever be again without her.

Growing up, he was always telling her she was beautiful and that he loved her. They had nicknames for each other. They were playful. They worked together. They fought, but they would make up. They were affectionate. I never walked in on them having sex or anything like that, but he'd slap her butt and talk about her body. They were my example for marriage. Once she got sick, their marriage was stronger than ever. He supported her in every way.

My dad died a year ago. My dad has always been my parent that understood me. My mom loved me deeply (and I her!), but my dad was my bud. We watched football together, went to casinos and played cards together (our father-daughter bonding!), talked on the phone daily, many times for hours. His death wrecked me to the core. He died receiving an operation that was supposed to give him 30 years of healthy living. He was excited to receive it, and it went wrong.

I've been grieving heavily for the past year. My husband and I also recently received news that we can't have children, so the amount of grief I have felt in these last 4 years has been pretty crippling. I haven't cleaned out his house because every time I would try, I would just get upset. After a year, though, I felt ready, and I didn't want it sitting untouched any longer. So, my husband and I have been cleaning out his house and sorting things.

In the drawer beside his desktop computer, that's where we found them. 3 lists of gay porn sites. Probably about 25 sites in all. They were written in different pens, some marked out, some edited. They seemed to be "running lists" of what I am assuming her the "regulars," and it seems they lists have been there for a while. I am 100% certain they are in his handwriting. On his laptop, his history had been deleted (I ran recovery - nothing was restored - it's been too long.). There were 10 photos on his desktop - 9 of mom or me, one of the cover of "OUT" magazine. Other folders were empty. This tells me that homosexual-related internet activity was going on on both of his computers. I don't know how long, I don't know when - it's just obvious it happened. 

Why this shocks me: Because my father has always been so open with me. He's told me stories of his past drug use, he told me about my mother's abortion, told me about his past girlfriends, told me what I thought was everything - all of the secrets in his closet. He was also stereotypically the last human on earth I'd ever think was gay, bisexual, bicurious, etc. He cared nothing about his appearance, he wasn't clean, he commented on women's appearances - a bit "pervy" at times - he loved football and Nascar and classic rock, we had incredibly differing political beliefs (he was very conservative - his stance on gay marriage - "I don't care what they do in the bedroom, but why do they have to do it all out in the open?!") - please forgive me for all of these stereotypes - I hope you guys will let me type my thoughts without judgments. I have never in my whole life had any inkling whatsoever that he may be attracted to men.

I'm incredibly upset my this. I'm finding it pretty hard to function normally. I need to talk this out, and hopefully, find acceptance and move on. I am so, so sick of feeling sadness. 

Why I am hurt: I feel as though the second closest relationship I've ever experience was not honest. If he indeed was attracted to men, it seems that he went out of his way to act as if he was not. To deceive me. I loved him so because of what he was to me, but I also adored him and admired him because of what he was to my mother. And now, I may have just learned that he wasn't an honest husband to her at all. 

I put him on such a pedestal and idolized him, however fair that was. I've never in my life felt let down by him. He was at every graduation, performance, sporting event, etc. He taught me to be hardworking and to stand up for myself and I thought he taught me how a man should treat a woman. He was a protector and a provider and a friend. Now, I feel like this constant ideal that has truly shaped my outlook on life and who I am as a person has crumbled.

I KNOW that this doesn't change who my father was to me. He was wonderful. But, it does change who my father was to my mother. There is NO WAY that my mother knew if my father was gay or curious. My mother was extremely conservative as well, and while I loved her with all my heart, she was very close minded. She openly talked about how we should always "vote our bible" on issues like gay marriage - she was FIRM in her beliefs and to her, right was right and wrong was wrong. We would get into political debates, and homosexuality wasn't a subject that anyone in our household tiptoed around - not by either of my parents.

I hope my long ramblings don't offend anyone. I am not saying that my father is a bad person because he may be gay. I am an ally, and I know that this isn't something someone chooses to feel. I know this is part of a person's identity. I know that. BUT the man that I knew would not lead a woman to believe that she was the object of his affection and then look at these types of websites when she was away or dead. It feels wrong - not because homosexuality is wrong - but because my mother deserved to be loved FULLY. 

So, I have all sorts of questions for you guys:

1) I am the type of person who really longs to understand. I want to know what my dad really felt and if this was every something that he acted on, etc.. But obviously, this was his secret and I probably have no right telling it. Should I ask his sister if this was something? She was my mom's best friend and my dad's closest family, so if anyone knows, it's her.

2) Can you guys think of any other reason for the lists of websites and the OUT Magazine? My dad has no other family at his house, no friends over, etc. so I don't think it's because of anyone else using his computers.

3) If he were bisexual, meaning he could have loved, wanted and desired my mother, why didn't I find a list of heterosexual porn as well?

4) Anyone have any other additional widsom to offer??

I feel betrayed, shocked, and like I can't trust anyone. I've asked my husband about 26 times since we found the lists if he has ever felt any attraction to the same sex. This is really rocking my world view. Please help.

Last edited by shockeddaughter (August 21, 2019 4:01 pm)

 

August 21, 2019 4:10 pm  #2


Re: Found after Deceased

What a heart-felt and honest post! Your love for your parents shines through everything you wrote

Yes...open up a conversation with your father's sister. The need to talk about this is what will pave your way through it


KIA KAHA                       
 

August 21, 2019 7:04 pm  #3


Re: Found after Deceased

Hi

Yes it would be wonderful if you could talk to your aunt - is she an understanding sort of person?  How well do you think she might take the news?  

Brace yourself it's tough - this is the extra serving of grief and I am so sorry, such huge losses coming thick and fast and yes, just as you say, finding those lists of gay sites is to lose so much of the past you thought you had.  

You are very eloquent honest and resourceful to have found this place and written that post.  

My feeling is that there is a silver lining in finding those lists - it seems to me only natural that as time goes by, and you absorb the new information into your memories of the past, eventually it starts to feel not so much that you lose your past as find yourself more in knowing the truth of your past.  And a closer understanding of your parents.  You don't need to doubt their love for you.

wishing you all the best, 
hugs, Lily


 
 

Last edited by lily (August 21, 2019 7:11 pm)

 

August 21, 2019 7:33 pm  #4


Re: Found after Deceased

Sorry for your losses. It must be hard to lose so much in so few years.

It certainly seems that your Mothers passing left your Father deeply grieving and depressed. Perhaps this is when the porn started? You may never know. Similarly, you may never know how much, if anything, your Mother knew or suspected. On the other hand, it does seem he was devoted to her and she to him. Perhaps this was one of those cases where the marriage vows truly were taken seriously. If so, that is something to be proud of.

As for why he never spoke of this? Shame? Societal conditioning from growing up 60 years ago, give or take? A desire to protect you and your memories of growing up?

I realize I probably haven't really answered your questions but I hope you find a way to reconcile this with all the cherished memories you have of your parents.


 


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

August 22, 2019 3:03 am  #5


Re: Found after Deceased

Hi, thanks for your story. Sorry for what you've had to deal with. Also, it was really interesting to know, how people deal with situation like this. You've did the right thing by not holding these emotions. So, thanks for sharing.

Several toughts about this story:

I'm not that sure about talking with your aunt. Can't argue this, but i think that it would be better to talk with a person you really could count on - your husband (you may ask him for 5000 thousands time, he's your husband after all) or/and professional to deal with emotions.

About gay porn. There're lots of cases (even in this forum) when homosexuality "rises" after deep psychological impact. It may be some medical condition, severe surgery or... loss of the loved one. It's not that one becomes homosexual after this, but it may trigger that somewhere deep inside. So there's a chance, that your father "changed" after deep loss. If you would look at the stories here, you'll see that there is no time limit before someone goes out of it's "closet". It may be 3, 15 or 40 years. Some of them lived normal heterosexual life, including intimacy. 

In your father's case, he stayed there for a long time, but that doesn't mean, that he suffered about that. Everyone is differrent and takes his own path of life. Again, his homosexuality could "live" in lethargy until something changed. Humans are complex creatures and there's no "one and real homosexuality" or "real heterosexuality". He could have found his own way of life, to be happy with himself and to make happy his family.

"It feels wrong - not because homosexuality is wrong - but because my mother deserved to be loved FULLY. " - don't take it personally, i think that you are asking for too much here. it looks for me as projection of ideal family in your head, that somehow broke and now you are blaming someone/something for not matching your projection.

​You've had a wonderful family and loving parents, but they were still humans with their own complexity of feelings and knowledge. I know, that your own pain (from findings) would be always more painful, but as a person that was raised up by two times divorced mum and that have not seen his also two times divorced father from when i was 8 years, and still thinking that they have done the best they could, i could not identify myself in your situation I agree, that it's hard to understand and shocking, but i think that you should rely on that information you have in your memories and heart, not pc folder. 

I don't think that you're (or your aunt are) capable to decide if your mother was happy in case your father was gay or not. You have no other clues than hypothetical guesses or some gay porn lists. On the other side, you have your own true memories.

From what i read, and i'm glad to read that he was best father you could imagine, he was a very good person. I'm not sure, if his hobby (which could raise after his loss) changes anything for you or for anyone else.
I think, his mentioning that he wants to drink and watch tv is more disturbing than this. Drinking is a problem, gay porn is not.
 

Last edited by morpheus (August 22, 2019 4:42 am)

 

August 22, 2019 12:41 pm  #6


Re: Found after Deceased

Hey Morpheus - gay porn is not a problem?  

homosexuality means attracted to the same sex, heterosexuality is attracted to the opposite sex. 

bisexuality is a modern term and sort of defies gravity.  

 

August 22, 2019 2:49 pm  #7


Re: Found after Deceased

well, from what i read here, it was only gay porn we have. and we even don't know in what his live period he started to watch it. if my wife would like to watch lesbian porn, i wouldn't even raise my eyebrow.

 

August 22, 2019 4:39 pm  #8


Re: Found after Deceased

your wife could watch lesbian porn and it wouldn't bother you?

that's like saying I don't care if she isn't attracted to me as long as she doesn't leave.

while we're on the subject, why is it asking for too much to expect to be loved fully?  Absolutely I agree with OP's comment.

so far, in the time I have been here the men posting have been unanimous - no don't want to watch gay porn. 

 

August 22, 2019 5:15 pm  #9


Re: Found after Deceased

Shocked: I’m sorry you find yourself here, but I’m also happy that you’ve joined us. I’ve felt strongly that we need to have kids in your situation speak about how you’ve been impacted. Many of us have kids, and we get a little obsessed about how to talk with them and what to say. Having your voice here is so incredibly important.

I know you’re still reeling from the discovery, but I hope you’ll stick around and with time maybe help us learn how to help our kids.

My daughter is 23, and when I made my discovery, I felt she was going to need to hear the truth. I was terrified that she would learn the way you learned, by accident at the worst possible moment. I felt I just couldn’t risk her learning in the worst possible way, even though I knew that my telling her was going to be a shock. At least I would be able to deliver the message in the most sensitive way.

When you feel ready, I’d really like to hear your advice to parents.

 

August 26, 2019 9:01 am  #10


Re: Found after Deceased

Hi shocked.
I would think twice before I shared this secret with anyone else.  You can't undo it and after the shock has worn off you might regret it.  Try to think 5 years from now if that's how you want people to remember your dad as a closeted gay man or as the man that you knew growing up?  

Try reading this article maybe you can find some clarity there.  https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201412/is-your-man-gay-straight-or-bisexual

 


 
 

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