OurPath Open Forum
This forum is for discussion of issues related to Mixed Orientation relationships only, that is when one partner is heterosexual (straight) and one is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender or Questioning.
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1 of 1- De_Profundis
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Bill of Rights for the spouse
I've been working my way through the podcast episodes. There are more reflecting TGT than TTT, but many factors are similar for both, and the pain is huge in both situations.
Specifically I've been helped by a recent episode about a "cis-spouse bill of rights" (I think it season 2, episode 12). So much of it seemed to speak directly to me. We hear so much about the rights of the person coming out, but I think the "rights" inside a marriage or relationship get conflated or confused with legal/societal rights, and I feel like those should be separate conversations. The left-behind spouse also has RIGHTS which society never addresses or even thinks of. Even trying to mention them gets you labeled a bigot or worse.
For instance, you have the right to have your own feelings about this; you have the right to choose your responses. You have the right to be the "shopping partner" and "makeup tutor" with your M2F spouse, or to choose NOT to be. You have the right to refuse to share the title of "Mother" with the father of your children. And there were more.
It was a refreshing point of view. Has anyone else here listened to it?
- OnMyOwnTwoFeet
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Re: Bill of Rights for the spouse
I have not, but I will! Thanks for your recommendation. And also: sharing the title of "mother"--oh my how truly horrible.
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: Bill of Rights for the spouse
Any podcast that begins by labeling me as "cis" is not one I would get much out of, I'm afraid, even if it was attempting to define my "rights." I am not "cisgender," a term invented by those who wish to claim that I, a female woman, am merely a "type" of woman, co-equal with transwomen. I am a woman. Transwomen are not women, they are transwomen. They do not and never will have the biological sex (XX) that constitutes woman, the embodied experience of living in a female body, the socialization girls experience as a result of being both born with and living in that sexed body, or the lived experience of women.
I have the right to reject their label "cis," with its to me offensive implication that I am merely a type of woman. Trans and non-binary and all the other varieties of sexuality or identity designated by the alphabet after LGBTQ may have to right to name their own reality, but they don't have the right to re-name mine to suit their own agenda or to demand I validate theirs. In fact, a blog entry on the straight spouse page quoted from a short essay I had written in fall 2016 for the blog, and in introducing my quote referred to me as "the cisgender wife," so I wrote them to object, and they agreed I had the right to reject that term, and removed that adjective "cis."
I'm sorry, I keep editing my post and it gets longer, because one thing is connected to another in a long line of outrages.
What I'd really be interested in is a list of what rights our spouses DON'T have. LIke: "You don't have the right to redefine your straight spouse's sexuality to suit your newfound identity as a trans person and your new idea of yourself as a lesbian."
I do wonder, though: What "rights" would we ascribe to ourselves? In an intro to women's studies class I used to teach, I had the students write up a "Sexual Bill of Rights" for women. The exercise of doing it was empowering and clarifying for them, and the results great fodder for discussion. One more thing I'd be afraid to try in a classroom now. Yesterday I talked to a woman colleague in poltical science who said she won't teach "women in politics" anymore, because of the new gender regime.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 4, 2019 1:18 pm)
- De_Profundis
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Re: Bill of Rights for the spouse
OOHC, I completely understand, as I also dislike the "cis" prefix for many reasons. I wouldn't have used it if the podcast guest hadn't done so, and I'm so sorry she did, because you were one of the first people I thought of when I heard one of the final segments of this episode, because...... .....one of the spouse/partner rights that was stated, besides all of the ones I've mentioned already, was the right to confide in others in order to get much-needed support. When my spouse learned (during a couples counseling session) that I had told a few close, confidential friends, he was a bit ticked off because (he said) I had "outed him without his permission." I stood firm and said that (a) I had not told anyone who would do him any harm with this information or would even be able to; and (b) I ABSOLUTELY NEEDED the comfort and counsel of my closest friends at that time. I get the concept of not "outing" people for no reason, or for the purpose of causing them professional or personal harm; of course I would never do that. But no one is going to deny me the support of my close friends at a time of urgent need! I was the lowest I'd ever been during those first weeks (my user name is Latin for "from the depths," roughly translated, because that is how I felt) and I am not sure I would have survived without their support. How dare he -- and how dare the TG community or society in general -- bar me from that? That's why this podcast episode was the most meaningful for me so far -- it really validated my strong belief that spouses and partners have every right to NOT be isolated and cut off from their nearest and dearest at a time when their entire world is imploding. (I'm getting emotional all over again!)
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Thread Starter- StrongerThanIKnew
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Re: Bill of Rights for the spouse
I saw that Bill of Rights somewhere a few years back, and the right to confide in others was what prompted me to finally tell a friend that I could trust. It was truly the beginning of my healing journey. Before that, I had just been spiraling and wondering how far down I could go.
Unfortunately, these aren't rights in the legal sense. I do now share the mom title with my ex. I hate it, but there really isn't anything I can do. I mean I refuse to say "your mom" when talking about my ex to our children and instead use my ex's name, but that is really all I can do.
- TwistingInTheWind
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Re: Bill of Rights for the spouse
It appears to me that this situation haunts many, many more women than men. I do think that if that were reversed that we would see some very basic societal attitudes change in a heaivng big hurry. Let lesbian women start marrying straight guys, having children with them and then cutting out the side door so they can live and "authenic" life. There would be NO empathy and NO underestanding. You would think that I would be used to the double standards by now - you wold be wrong. I will never, ever get used to that. All this is not to diminish the devastation of straight men who HAVE beeb deceived and used. They probablly get even less empathy and respect than we do.