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June 8, 2019 11:20 pm  #1


Super Angry

Another long post from me:
Today doing something fairly simple--a project with my husband--I got really angry.  It was a small trigger.  And wow, I was so so angry.  It was out of proportion to the trigger itself, and it was like a dam burst and I wanted him to hear me!  I am so frustrated that he will not hear me!  I am so frustrated that he will not see me!  I know he never will.   Why do I keep imagining he will? 

I am not used to this kind of anger, and I really yelled at him, and I know I was moving my head around a lot, because my hair kept getting in my face.  I know my husband will use anything I say against me at some point in the future.  He has already turned around things from months ago--right when things first came out--when I was expressing hurt and anger--but it was nothing like the anger I expressed today.  I think I have a right to be angry in this situation, though I don't think anyone has a right to hurt someone physically or emotionally even when angry.  but my husband is "hurt emotionally" just by me saying he hurt me.  He now talks about "all the negativity" I've directed toward him--referring to past times when I was not nearly as angry as today.  I am angry and hurt for the past 30 years of cruelty and deception; he is angry at me for expressing this and for trying to hold him responsible. (No it was NOT your dysfunctional family of origin that hurt me; it was you.)

I have worked so hard to write things out and think things out and not work out my feelings "on him."  I have about 250 locked-down digital journal entries.  I don't have all that many hours talking with him.  When I keep my anger under control, he says I am lecturing him.  And I probably am.  He says I am lecturing him even when I am just having a conversation and I am calm and not feeling anger, because I will work myself into a "matter of fact" place.  If I say he has lied to me and I say "that it felt to me like you were lying."  And he says he wouldn't call it a lie.  And then I say "it is a lie because ...."  So then he is angry at me for lecturing.  I just can't even hold him to standards of reality, it is like he does not understand basic concepts of human decency.  I can't express any feelings, or I am "scary" or "dominant" or a "bully" who just wants to "batter and bruise" him.  He just wants to go forward, he says, and work on our communication issues.  Etc.

I know this is all part of his deflection.  But I really think he totally believes it. Totally believes he is the victim to my horrible meanness, with my problem communication skills.  He says things like how I have just been so angry and yelling at him all along.  But I have not.  I have BEEN angry, and I have been emphatic and crying, and my voice raised.  But there have been only two times when I was really really yelling--today was one.

He is also acting really scared sometimes, like a child being disciplined, and feeling controlled he says--attributing me as a super scary person for something like him not calling home after work.  It's like he is cowering "please don't hurt me"--I think he totally believes this.  I think he totally believes I am really scary and that I am hurting him. Or he is a master manipulator and knows he is messing with my head and my responsible, normally even nature.

I keep talking with my therapist about this--am I really the abuser here?  Am I the narcissist?  Am I the one who is not listening?  I beg her to tell me what I need to do to change.  I have been begging her for 5 years--what is my problem?  I know I am not the abuser here, and she assures me I am not.  The reality check helps me.  I just live in Crazy Switched-Up Land.  Back at home, back in CSUL, back in close quarters, I know that anything I say "can and will be used against me." And I am immersed in the alternate reality where I am the scary person just for having feelings, and he is the sweet guy, startled and frightened by me asking him to be honest. 

I need to hold on for a while and keep everything in balance in our interactions, because I have to have a significant surgery this month, and need continued health insurance through recovery.  Also, my husband's biggest past attacks have almost always been when I am ill or have had a surgery.  So I need to keep the "all is well" mask on.  And I did NOT keep it on today, for sure.

Meanwhile, staying in the same house drains me constantly, and if I say nothing to him, everything is fine, and so then he easily "proves" how "changed" he is by being super nice. But when I express any feelings--no matter how simple--all the patterns come back.  (DARVO!  I just learned that term!)  The DARVO is in these small conversations when I speak up, and also the DARVO is just in the overall patterns of our interactions right now because of how I am not allowed to say anything at all to sweet him.  Because if I have any feelings now, he is the victim.  Because he is trying so hard not to be emotionally aggressive.  I will say that he is doing better--in the past I could have counted on attacks out of the blue.  But the patterns are still there if anything happens where he feels challenged.

I am still so hurt and angry about the past 30 years.  He still cannot articulate what he did--it was not malicious he says, etc.  He cannot articulate why I feel hurt.  He cannot even articulate that I AM hurt.  Today he said that he believes he has been so overwhelmed by his own struggles and pain that he just assumes everyone else is ok and he just has not realized all the hurt he has caused.  (I believe this is BS, TBH.)  I said, "how can you not have realized when we were begging you to see it!  When I used words to say "that hurt" and you made it my fault.  When I used words to try to discuss a concern, and you told me i was unreasonable.  When I used words to ask for accommodation for something I wanted to do.  How can he say he just assumed everyone else was OK?  I guess it did get to the point where I hardly ever expressed feelings because I could count on being dismissed.  But even when I did--he DARVO'ed. 

He SAYS he wants me to let him know when he is repeating the blaming and other destructive patterns, but when I do, I can expect an attack.  I try not to say anything about it anymore.  But sometimes I still do.  And weekends are super hard.  I need distance.  The longer I stay in the marriage, the more I fear I really do seem like a bully--and today will fuel that in his mind. 

I am not a bully.  But I really was yelling today.  I am not a yeller (though he will say I am), so this is very very upsetting to me.  It is upsetting to me just to have been yelling--this is not who I am.  This last year has been so exhausting.  But even more upsetting, is how afraid I am, because I am pretty certain this will now be twisted to me as villain.

I am a very articulate speaker--especially when angry, I am learning!-- so that is probably formidable and scary, I am sure.  AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!

And I apologize again for another long post.  I'm sure it is repetitive and circular.  There is so so so much I'm working through right now.  And so isolated.  And so exhausted.  Just all worn out.  I know you all understand this.

Help? 

 

June 8, 2019 11:28 pm  #2


Re: Super Angry

Best place for all that emotion.....is on this Forum

Because we understand it


KIA KAHA                       
 

June 9, 2019 6:35 am  #3


Re: Super Angry

OMOTF,

I read your entire post...  One thought that stood out more;

"I just can't even hold him to standards of reality, it is like he does not understand basic concepts of human decency.  I can't express any feelings, or I am "scary" or "dominant.."


This.


I am not an angry person..but my cheating GX was so without empathy and hurtful..  When I confronted her or called her out on anything I was attacked with anger that was so disproportionate to a single word I said.  This was blame shifting sure..but it was also her way of showing me that in her bones she thought what she was doing was right and moral..  That I was at fault for calling her out and in her mind she truly believed her immoral version of reality was real and my view was wrong.  It's scary because it's almost like they are sick..they are sick.

I think what you are feeling is the enormous weight of a spouse who feels they are morally right for hurting you. Your reality is is confused and fogged by him acting the victim, him acting righteous and without empathy as if you're wrong.  The cognitive dissonance and gaslighting ...

All you can do is maintain status quo...do what you need to do since you need surgery etc.  But detach ..no need to argue..you know everything he will say and you know you can't get through to him..you know his morality. In a sentence..just because he acts the victim or yells or acts reasonable etc does not make what he is saying true. The relief you feel when not around him is because you are back in real reality.

Stay in real reality,..even if in the same house..minimal contact, short simple replies, no showing feelings or emotion.. because it will simply get you more hurt. 

A kind ehug (virtual but sincere and authentic)

Last edited by Rob (June 9, 2019 6:37 am)


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

June 9, 2019 7:54 am  #4


Re: Super Angry

I second Rob's words.

   You will never "get through to him" because he truly believes in his mind that he is the morally righteous person and you are his persecutor.  I have often wondered if this is what they need to believe to be able to do what they have decided they need to do.  That we are the sacrificial lambs on the receiving end of this "coming-out" process, if that's what it is, traumatizes us. 

   When your husband says he was just so overcome by his own trouble he is playing the victim card to make you feel sorry for him.  It's one of the three techniques of a narcissist, and one they use to manage your behavior and re-secure you.  (The other two techniques are charm and rage; most have their preferred--and effective--method or two.) 

  Because you're tenacious and will not "go gentle into that good night," he's manipulated you into the corner of not being able to talk to him, because he then declares that you've attacked him, so you learn to keep quiet most of the time, until the pressure becomes too much, and you blow, and because you blow you're again in the wrong.  The only way to negotiate with a narcissist is to leave the field.  If you don't know Adelyn Birch's short book "Boundaries: After a Pathological Relationship" I hope you will look it up.  It's very useful in laying out the techniques of manipulation we are subjected to.

That is, you're bursting out with anger in response to his stone-walling, and then you're being turned into the attacker (the DARVO).  It's also a standard technique.  Once you learn to analyze this behavior you can then see it for what it is, and can control your own reactions better.  This is not to say you won't still blow out occasionally from the pressure.  In fact, it's one of those blow-outs that propelled me into finally saying "enough's enough."  I had been planning to disclose my desire to divorce in two months, but one night I couldn't take it any more, and blew up.  I was glad I did.
  
   I don't remember what the specifics of your legal situation are, but is there a way to mandate, through a legal separation agreement, for example, that you stay on his health insurance through the divorce, so you can get your surgery and also get free?  If that's not possible, then at the very least, is there a place you can go away from your home for a period of time before the surgery, so you can remove yourself from the scene of his provocations?  

 

June 9, 2019 8:00 am  #5


Re: Super Angry

      The thing is, I've decided, that people who marry straights when they know (or suspect) they aren't straight are never going to negotiate in good faith.  They have too many years of repression and denial, of hiding and deception and living a compartmentalized, closeted life to be honest enough to deal honestly with themselves, let alone with us.  As Rob says, "they are sick." 
   
 

 

June 9, 2019 10:28 am  #6


Re: Super Angry

I was too scared to yell.  I promised myself I would be careful.  Of course he will use it against you, you just play into his hands when you give him any emotion let alone anger.

The thing I noticed about my ex was his ability to understand crisped up amazingly well when it came to money.

This is a different sort of person to what you are imagining.  you are trying to make him act responsibly and he is doing his own thing and not on the same page with you at all.  

I agree see if you can get yourself some time away from him, it helps enormously.

Look after yourself just as much as you can. 

 

June 9, 2019 10:38 am  #7


Re: Super Angry

Amen, OOHC.  They haven’t made peace with their own truth. And whether it’s conscious or unconscious, they are gifted at making others feel accountable and responsible for that fact.

There is a paradox here too. When my ex came out and when we discussed staying married there was a tone in the conversation that I struggle to describe - it was as if she expected me to treat it like a ‘condition’ and it should be ok that my needs are not met because she is gay. As if she had suffered some catastrophic physical disability that prevented her from sex with me.  The paradox - I’m supposed to treat it like a ‘condition’,  but ‘no this is perfectly normal to be gay’ too. I think this is the essence of the ‘mindf**k’ someone described that we all experience.

The reason I left was because there was no place to negotiate in that space. All of my efforts would have been futile. 

Two more thoughts..
1) As I’ve shared before,  I am recently remarried. Blending a family with teenagers is going to present challenges,  but the three elements I have now that I didn’t have before in addition to a straight partner is, my wife knows herself and her story, she is not afraid of conflict nor communication, and every investment I make in negotiating/resolving a conflict results in betterment of the family not an individual.  I don’t think I ever had that in my marriage. It’s very interesting to me also, that my ex rarely used the word ‘family’ .. she used the word ‘kids’ .. ‘the kids’, ‘having kids’, in places where I think family was appropriate. I don’t think she was ever whole enough to be all in.

2) On examining ourselves, how we got into these MOMs, and whether to leave, I found two resources on personality traits helpful in deciding what I was dealing with and what my own traits and potential culpabilities were.
Gordon Livingston’s book “How to Love” and a personality test on Jordan Petersen’s website. I would bet serious money most of us here test very high on Agreeableness:Compassion.

Those are my thoughts for the day. All the best....

ADSJ

 

June 11, 2019 1:51 am  #8


Re: Super Angry

Thank you everyone for these very kind responses.  And special thanks plus new reading glasses to those who actually read my many many words!  I have wanted to write specific thank you's for specific things you've said above.  Meanwhile, I haven't!  So this quick note to say how much it meant to me. 

     Thread Starter
 

June 18, 2019 8:22 am  #9


Re: Super Angry

Hi OMOTF,

I’m new here. Second post

I just wanted to say that your anger is a message to you - that something is really wrong with this situation.
But you already know that.

I totally get your disappointment in not being able to control the anger.  it’s okay to feel angry and yell.

It’s not fair nor right to not be allowed feelings, yet the other person is.

I’m new here - so I’m sure gray rock has been discussed.

If you’re in the US (again I’m new here)- benefits can’t be changed without a qualifying event. Divorce would be, but I don’t know about a legal separation (assuming that is an option where you are).

Anyway, what I mean to say is that your anger is totally justified. And valid. And I hope you can ignore this person because you can’t change his mind. Take care of yourself. Maybe  when he’s getting under your skin, Imagine him on a sailboat and blow into the sail. Sending you hugs.

 

June 18, 2019 10:33 am  #10


Re: Super Angry

Deleted

Last edited by MJM017 (July 11, 2021 7:23 pm)


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

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