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April 28, 2019 6:37 pm  #1


homophobia and the closet

The more I think about it, the less I see the closet as being caused by homophobia.  From the stories I read here, it's the people who are friendly to gays who are getting married to them.

And now we have increasing numbers of younger people where they are semi-confessing - I am a bisexual but you are the person I love, etc etc - but it still looks like they're hiding how they really feel under the love-bombing.

I know homophobia is a real and present threat, and I can see how not being open about being gay can literally be a necessity at times. And often people say they grew up in a family where hiding being gay was a necessity.  And I can relate to all of that.  But the closet is about turning your own home into a place where you are hiding who you are.  

To hide being gay from public view due to homophobia strikes me as a reasonable thing, but to blame homophobia for getting married? isn't that just another serve of blame shifting onto the much maligned straight spouse who was friendly to gays in the first place.

 

April 28, 2019 7:19 pm  #2


Re: homophobia and the closet

You bring up a good question, Lilly, including the claims of bi-sexuality.  It got me thinking about the bi-sexual claims some spouses make before they fully come out and their request to act on same sex attractions. So why the need to act out on same sex attraction?  If a spouse is bi-sexual and asks to act on it, how is that different than a straight spouse asking to act out with a straight person outside the marriage that they find themselves attracted to?   And If they are truly bi-sexual then isn't either gender sufficient to love?  Shouldn't that mean the straight spouse should be good enough? Why do you have to switch.  Am I missing some logic here?

I hope I've explained this well enough, but the lack of logic and reciprocity in the request to act out because  one is bi-sexual, strikes me as denial, and that in the end would imply, asking to act out because one is bi-sexual, probably means the individual is actually gay.

Something to ponder...  

 

April 28, 2019 11:54 pm  #3


Re: homophobia and the closet

I've given this a lot of thought, too, in trying to find meaning in this situation.

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that for most it's simple selfishness. Whatever they are getting/could get from the straight relationship, whether that is children, respectability, emotional support, comfort, love, financial safety, whatever it is, they are unwilling to give it up and think they can have it all.

I have a great deal more compassion for those who genuinely just don't want to be gay and are desperately trying to make it work but sadly the selfishness is the same. It's still about making it work 'for them' and they don't care much about whether or not it works for the other person.

I also imagine there are the rare few where this doesn't apply but that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

Selfishness is a simple, common reason for someone to break your heart. Healing the pain that results from that reason is anything but.

 

April 29, 2019 8:32 am  #4


Re: homophobia and the closet

Well put Whirligig.  A working MOM or straight marriage both need reciprocity and trust. When one party becomes too selfish to reciprocate needs, it will no longer work.

Last edited by a_dads_straight_journey (April 29, 2019 9:16 am)

 

April 29, 2019 9:53 am  #5


Re: homophobia and the closet

lily, when I first made my discovery, some of the most supportive people in my social circle were gay men.  These are guys who are the same age as my husband, and theoretically they confronted all the same issues when it came to being candid and honest with their parents and communities, but unlike my husband they did the brave thing.  These were the first people to call out his BS; the people who fell into the narrative about my husband being some kind of victim of homophobia were all straight people who were projecting a narrative onto an incomplete set of facts.

My husband is not a victim of homophobia, or a victim of anything else.  He's the predator.  

To be absolutely clear: he was raised Catholic, and his parents may have shared a number of biases that the WWII generation shared.  I have no doubt that they made the same wisecracks as their peers did about gays, for example, but I also know that my mother-in-law's youngest brother was one of the founders of the gay rights movement -- he was an early author and activist, and founded a VFW chapter for gays who had served in the military in WWII.  My inlaws were very, very proud of his accomplishments and after his death they remained close to his partner.  

I point this out because it's pretty damn insensitive for people to give my husband a free pass for everything he did to me, when people presume that his parents must have driven him to be closeted.  My husband was closeted because he wanted to be; because having a wife conferred status in this sick little sub-culture of pay-to-play illicit sex participants.  I can't stand when people suggest that he must have been the product of a homophobic childhood.

If anything, this is how that subculture continues to thrive: people see what they want to see, and overlook what makes them uncomfortable.  Nobody wants to admit that this subculture exists, so that allows the participants to hide in plain sight.

 

April 29, 2019 10:57 am  #6


Re: homophobia and the closet

Walkby,  
   Hear, hear.  My ex stays in the closet because it confers benefits on him that he doesn't want to forego.  
 
ADSJ, 
   You nailed it.  When my ex came out to me as trans, I showed him what he later characterized as "extraordinary acceptance."  I have written before that I believe that had he been able to meet me even a fraction of the percentage that I met him, we might still be together.  (I've also written that in the end, I'm glad he didn't.)   It was his lack of empathy and reciprocity, coupled with a narcissistic entitlement, that ensured we would divorce.

   

 

 

April 29, 2019 1:42 pm  #7


Re: homophobia and the closet

Deleted.

Last edited by Lynne (October 3, 2020 5:51 pm)

 

April 29, 2019 2:41 pm  #8


Re: homophobia and the closet

Lynne, I would absolutely agree. Perhaps 'core' would have been a better word choice than simple.

 

April 30, 2019 6:49 am  #9


Re: homophobia and the closet

yeah that's a good word - core selfishness.  I am still trying to wrap my head round it.  

Everyone apart from me thinks of my ex as a kind and caring man.  I have a completely different view.  But I used to think the same.  tbh I find the thought of him increasingly unpleasant nowadays and spend very little time thinking about him but I managed a little look back just now, I wanted to see if I could remember instances of him being kind to other people and I can see it.  The little groups of people clustered around him and all of us liking his nice vibes and is he being kind to anyone?  Hard to answer.

I know there were nicer times too but I have a whole raft of memories from when we were alone at home that form a picture of a lack of affection and distancing til I felt alone and isolated and left sitting in the wings.

And it looks like I was being used as nothing but planks of wood to build a closet with.
 

Last edited by lily (April 30, 2019 6:50 am)

     Thread Starter
 

November 18, 2022 8:54 am  #10


Re: homophobia and the closet

lily wrote:

The more I think about it, the less I see the closet as being caused by homophobia.  From the stories I read here, it's the people who are friendly to gays who are getting married to them.

—- I agree we are friendly to gays and that’s why we are the easy targets. When me and my husband met, I was good friends with a gay guy at work. My cousin is also a lesbian, she came out to me when she was 14 bless her. She always knew because when playing kiss chase at school she used to chase the girls. My husband didn’t want to play. For what now seems like obvious reasons! I have been telling my cousin lately how proud I am of her for coming out so young. But saying that, she knew she had an accepting loving family who would just be like “ok.. what shall we have for dinner?”  And that’s pretty much how her mum reacted when I told her. I wish more families were more accepting like mine. Wouldn’t be so many lives torn apart by the deceit of it all.

And now we have increasing numbers of younger people where they are semi-confessing - I am a bisexual but you are the person I love, etc etc - but it still looks like they're hiding how they really feel under the love-bombing.

I know homophobia is a real and present threat, and I can see how not being open about being gay can literally be a necessity at times. And often people say they grew up in a family where hiding being gay was a necessity.  And I can relate to all of that.  But the closet is about turning your own home into a place where you are hiding who you are.  

To hide being gay from public view due to homophobia strikes me as a reasonable thing, but to blame homophobia for getting married? isn't that just another serve of blame shifting onto the much maligned straight spouse who was friendly to gays in the first place.

 

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