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November 27, 2018 5:51 pm  #1


ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

I'm feeling so cuckoo today. Here's the scoop.
Me, the SS made discovery 6 weeks ago. It's been a roller coaster of tears, anger, shouting, fighting, threatening, betrayal, disbelief, sadness looking at the demise of our 18 year marriage....ugh! I couldn't feel more insecure about my future. Will he support me? Will he cooperate?

1) GH, TransH, response to me about my discovery was bewildered "I don't know why" "I just do this when you're away" "It's a porn thing" "I would never be with a Trans person or GM." "I didn't cheat"

2) I discovered a locked file of named photo's. When confronted, "I don't know where those came from, they're not mine". But you put them there.

3) The turn around: I made the decision to leave (though still here while organizing move). His answer to any of my inquiries is "You decided to leave, I don't want you to leave, I love you." with no further explanation. 

4) No Admission: He admits to ordering ladies bags and masturbating to them and throwing them out. He admits to the GM hook-up chat rooms, where he "just looked" at profiles and left no identifying information of his own. He's busted because he saved his responses to CL ads when personal ads were still allowed. Because there is proof of this. But no verbal, "this is who I am", "I've always been this way", "This has been going on for xxx)

5) Lab Tests: I guess he isn't going to share the details of what I discovered is the last 3 years of Gay and Trans activity and swears he did not "cheat". It could have been throughout our entire marriage. So TODAY, I got labs done for AIDS, HEP-C and STI, STD's tests. Now to wait.

6) Not trying too hard: Husband (still), did NOT agree to go to counseling to work this out between us. Will not be forthcoming about his orientation (Maybe he himself is confused). Says he doesn't want me to leave, but did not make inroads to re-establish intimacy, affection, attention. Is still here coming home right after work, helping me pack, going to mediation for support and divorce. It is obvious that he too is reeling from my impending leaving, and sad.

7) Is the admission in the non-admission? Do I need to know the details? I feel opening up in honestly is the best way. Why do I have to discover and not be told? From my discoveries it looks like he has had affairs, but I cannot prove it. In terms of legally, it doesn't matter,  unless he was using joint funds to purchase homes, gifts, apartment leases for other person - no evidence of that. 

8) When I project into each of our futures and talk to him about "coming out", he gets very quiet, but does not say "No", that's wrong. When I say, you may re-marry a woman....he says "I might". He's trying to make me crazy I think.

9) He's pretty angry, lots of shouting matches. He's mad that I'm leaving, that we need to create agreements through mediation because we don't have the budget to hire individual attorney's. I've had to explain everything to him umpteen times and he is so bitter that he must pay support. I think he'd like me to slither out the door and live like a pauper after 18 years, though many of those years, I was the main breadwinner. Why is he so angry?

10) So I am in this ether world, where I don't know what is up or down. Most of my anger has dimmed, now it is just sadness, crying everywhere...at random, real grief. We will both miss each other dearly, he's my best friend and a dear sweet man when not hiding, drinking, suppresing - at least he used to be. This doesn't feel good, it's so hard, but I know I have to leave to get more of what I need from a HM...it's been too long without attention, affection, intimacy. Though he has been a good, best friend, financial support, but we've lost our social life and everything else.

How do I reconcile all of this? What do I need to know? Why do I feel like I am making the biggest mistake according to his responses to me. How is it that I still feel manipulated? Why does he need to have the upper hand? Why can he not admit wrong doing? Does he want me out so he can continue his life? Does he want me to stay and negotiate an open marriage (he hasn't said that)? Will he "come out"? Is that my business? Why do I want to know the details? Do I want to humiliate him by asking and finding out? 

Finally - What should I have in my mind to get me through the next 8 weeks until I physically move and we complete our support agreement....as we head to file divorce...and I seek counseling (my HMO is taking forever to assign a counselor to me)? Suggestions?

Last edited by EliciousATL (November 27, 2018 6:55 pm)

 

November 27, 2018 7:47 pm  #2


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

For 18 years your stbx has been hiding behind you, hiding his sexuality from the world, and denying it to himself.  He is currently fighting for his closet, and for the closeted, nothing is more important than the closet. Not you, but the cover given by your marriage. Think of the way that mothers defend their children from harm when the children are threatened; this is his equivalent. 
  His compartmentalized world, one that he has managed for so long so successfully, is coming apart at the seams, and in his eyes you are the one with the seam ripper, so he is focused on you.  He wants you to get back in line, and he will guilt you, gaslight you, rage at you--whatever it takes.  He will deny, stonewall, lie, attack.  He will try every weapon in his arsenal.  He's desperately casting around for what will work, and cycling through everything that has worked in the past (this is why YOU are feeling you are at fault when you're not--he's employing techniques that have undoubtedly worked in the past, but that you did not see before were manipulations--you feel manipulated because he is manipulating you).  He has spent years justifying his actions to himself and compartmentalizing his disordered sexuality, and may even genuinely believe that what he does with purses and in male chat rooms is unrelated to your marriage (which doesn't mean you should be "understanding," only that you should understand that he is not an well integrated and psychologically healthy individual). 
   To get through the next 8 weeks you need to do these things:  Stop looking for logic.  Stop looking for an admission. Stop looking for cooperation.  Stop thinking of him as your partner, and definitely stop thinking of him as someone with your interests at heart.  Stop engaging with him when he wants to fight, and don't engage him in fruitless efforts to get him to talk.  Start re-framing: he is not your best friend; a "best friend" would not do to you what he has.  He is a duplicitous and disordered person, and, if I may steal a quote from Kel, who I very much hope weighs in here, you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep him warm. 

 Finally, I believe that you need a lawyer working for you and you alone.  Six weeks is a very short time.  You are not in a position or the best frame of mind to fight for your future while you are feeling decentered, off center, and manipulated.  While you are still reeling you are likely to defer to him in ways that will cost you later, and divorce is the ONE chance you have to get the best financial settlement for your future.  

I don't remember whether you have family or friends to lean on, but this is the time to lean on them.  They can help you do reality checks, and keep you strong.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (November 27, 2018 7:48 pm)

 

November 27, 2018 8:08 pm  #3


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

[quote=OutofHisCloset
   To get through the next 8 weeks you need to do these things:  Stop looking for logic.  Stop looking for an admission. Stop looking for cooperation.  Stop thinking of him as your partner, and definitely stop thinking of him as someone with your interests at heart.  Stop engaging with him when he wants to fight, and don't engage him in fruitless efforts to get him to talk.  Start re-framing: he is not your best friend; a "best friend" would not do to you what he has.  He is a duplicitous and disordered person, and, if I may steal a quote from Kel, who I very much hope weighs in here, you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep him warm. 

Thank you for those sage words OutofHisCloset. "Stop looking for logic", is the big one. It really does feel like I'm in the xxx version of a lifetime movie about a mentally imbalanced, sexually confused person. I am literally counting the hours and praying a lot. Unfortunately I had to take out a loan just to pay for my own moving expenses, and for the mediation - however he has agreed to the mediation. We just don't have the funds to go the traditional lawyer for each route, or the time=$$ to battle it out. I am confident I will come to the right agreement with him for support, and pray he complies. There is so much uncertainty. He is "duplicitous and disordered", he even admits he is "f-ked up in the head". You are right...I am walking a fine line here - so just want to maintain status quo until I go and be of some value in his life to keep him complying with helping me re-establish and then quickly make sure I'm making my own way so I do not HAVE TO depend upon him. All I can do besides cry, is shake my head. OMG.

     Thread Starter
 

November 27, 2018 8:56 pm  #4


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

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Last edited by Estella Oculus (February 14, 2019 5:01 pm)

 

November 27, 2018 9:12 pm  #5


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

Thank  you Estella, I love the creative visualization idea. That will help me so much with the crazy making stuff. I can do this....with all of your support and advice. I hope you all know how much it helps. I know I'm posting alot - but am so very grateful to find this space where what I am going through is not trivialized and I am gaining knowledge which gives me understanding...it helps! Solidarity. YES! 

     Thread Starter
 

November 28, 2018 8:48 am  #6


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

In addition to what the others have said, not only should you stop thinking of him as your best friend, you should start thinking of him as your ex-husband. That little "ex" is pretty powerful. It severs the connection and the bond between you, so as you move forward, you don't need to worry about how anything will affect him. 

Here is another visualization for you. For 18+ years, you and your husband were journeying together, and he was in the car right next to you. Now, he is outside the car. He may be standing in front of you blocking your way or leaning up against it saying you can move but not really making it possible to move without hurting him. You need to get him in the rear view mirror. He may loom large there and he may block out everything else. Trust though, that as you move forward, that will change. As you move forward and look in your rear view mirror, he will become smaller and more insignificant to your current position and where you want to go in the future. 

I was always submissive and subservient when it came to my spouse. I was always willing to acquiesce to my spouse's wishes. However, as we try to reach a settlement, this is how I visualize my spouse and my relationship. And then it makes me wonder why I am willing to forfeit so much without a fight to someone who is going to become a smaller and more insignificant part of my life. And guess what? I'm not willing to do that. Seeing my spouse as my ex and as someone I don't want in my future has been huge for me. 

Truly my only regret is not seeing her (my spouse is trans MtF) that way earlier. I have wasted time and lost money because I continued to treat my spouse as if we were still bound together and I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

Stay strong.

 

November 29, 2018 4:01 pm  #7


Re: ITC is Crazy Making Stuff. Ahk!

Deleted

Last edited by Duped (August 23, 2019 1:38 pm)

 

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