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October 16, 2018 7:56 am  #11


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

Phoenix,
  1)  It would be helpful to have a resource section, or a way to search for posts/threads that are trans specific, although I think it's not necessary to segregate off trans/gay/lesbian (just as I didn't think it was a good idea to wall off those who were committed to making their MOMs work--because so many of those who say this is what they want are in the first stages of confronting their situation, when a declaration we're committed to making it work is often just an initial stage in a longer process, and I didn't/don't want the MOM section to keep people in a state of false hopes longer than otherwise might be the case). 
     I personally think that if people could be encouraged, when posting, to give their threads a name that better identified what they're about, say, with a prefix of "trans", that it would solve the problem and make finding relevant threads easier.  But I'm probably in the minority here.  

2)  Yes.  I will help with the resource guide.  I've often suggested resources I found illuminating and helpfut to new members posting for the first time.  I may have already sent some of those suggestions to you.  I'm going to have to gather my materials together, however, and then I'll send a list to this thread, but it's a busy time at work just now, so this will take a bit of time.

3) This is an incomplete answer (again, I'll try to answer at more length in the future).  
   I realize many who write in about their gay/lesbian spouses say they continue to have sex with their spouses, but the fact is that the gay/lesbian spouse's sexuality is fundamentally at odds with that of their heterosexual spouse.  For many of us with trans spouses or partners, it doesn't play out that way (although I, for one, have come to believe that autogynephilia, a sexual orientation to the [male] self as woman, is in fact fundamentally at odds with either hetero- or homo-sexuality, as it's an orientation to the self, not another). What we find is that we continue to be the object of their desire (apparently, anyway, although I think what we really are is props in their relationship with themselves), even as they transform themselves into a semblance of our own sex and declare themselves to be lesbians.  There's a particular mind-bending (a coarser word captures it better) quality to that situalion.  When the spouse doesn't opt for SRS, and so retains his male body or genitalia, the situation is even stranger.
     Put this together with what StrongerThanIKnew calls "the big lie" that seeks to guilt or obligate us into believing that our spouse is still the same person inside (although if they're still the same person, why is it that they have to/want to transition?  Why is is that it's accepted that someone who is the same person has to "transition," and only the straight spouse has to "adjust"?  If they're the same person, why do they have to transition?  Why can't they "adjust"?), and we are in the situation of watching our husbands attempting to become women while they continue to tell us that we remain the object of their desire and they continue to love us (there have been no men writing in about their wives transitioning), while we hear and tell ourselves that we should re-make our lives and our sexuality to match that of our spouse.  No one says to a straight man, "Hey, now that you know your wife is lesbian, you need to begin to identify as a woman and a lesbian in order to accommodate her."  No one says to a straight woman, "Hey, now that you know your spouse is gay, you need to begin to identify as a man and gay in order to accomodate him."  But what's told the straight woman of a trans identified spouse is "Hey, you need to accept that your male husband is now your (sort-of-)female wife and consider yourself as in a lesbian relationship," which means we are effectively told that we need to remake our ideas of our husbands and remake our sexuality in relation to the now "she" and "wife" that our husbands have declared they have become, and see ourselves as in a relation to a "woman."  
    This entails even more...what do we do with our past with that person who now disvows it?  How are we to think about those years (decades in my case)?  We can no longer discuss them with our spouse, because s/he is pained by them and they interfere in hir ability to consider hirself a woman.  In the name of acceptance we are told to consider our spouses "the same person" yet we are also expected to draw a line between that old and the new self.  Which is it?  Continuity or rupture?  
   The cognitive dissonance we're asked to embrace and exist in is in a category all its own.
   I have a lot more to say on this, but it'll have to wait until later when I can snatch some time.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (October 16, 2018 8:15 am)

 

October 16, 2018 11:02 am  #12


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

.

Last edited by Lynne (February 3, 2019 12:12 pm)

 

October 16, 2018 3:17 pm  #13


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

My spouse isn't trans, but for what it's worth I do think having a dedicated section would make it easier for people to find what's specific to their situation.  As I read along stories of trans spouses, I realize in terms of the issues you face there's a lot of overlap, but at the same time there are issues that are unique to spouses of trans people.

I've noticed one thing: we don't see men posting about their wives wanting to transition from female to male (unless I've missed it).  It seems like men are the ones who want to transition to female, and I'm just curious as to why there's so few men here posting about how their wives would like to transition to male.

It could just be a bias against men being open about subjects like that, of course.  But it's curious.

Last edited by walkbymyself (October 16, 2018 3:18 pm)

 

January 10, 2019 4:46 pm  #14


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

Hello,
This is my first post!  I am a spouse of a transwoman, whom I love.  I am 6 months past discovery and disclosure.  So, while I do have love  for them, I am angry and sometimes in denial of the betrayal.  I can understand my spouse's reasoning for staying closeted because it can be a dangerous and discriminatory world for transwomen.  And at the time of our marriage, they said identifying as a woman was not something they thought about.  They were happy and so was  I.   So a lot of the LG straight spouse issues do not apply for me, but I am looking for support in this huge game changer in my life.  I have not ruled out divorce, but I want to make our relationship work.  I have not found anyone to talk with yet who has been in my situation.  So, to quickly answer your questions....

1)  Please, yes, do have a subsection for trans spouses.  I don't know why others wouldn't want it.  It is not easy to sort through posts to find ones I relate to.  I have found a reddit, called " transpartner" or something like that, but that seems mostly to be with partners, not necessarily spouses, who have questions or concerns about the physical transition.  Also there are no groups for partners of transpeople that are active near me

2)  There are not many resources that I can find.....   There may be some blogs, but I haven't delved into them.  I have just read "The transgender guidebook: keys to a successful transition" to try to understand what my spouse will be going through.  Some of it was hard to read and I certainly wasn't ready to read it until after a few months have passed.  There are other books for and memoirs by trans people that I will read, but they doesn't speak to the straight spouse  experience that I know of...   

3)  Something different:  I am now questioning if I will be attracted to my spouse during and post transition. For me, I don't know the answer to that and  I don't think I can know ahead of time.  I certainly feel the loss and upcoming loss of the masculinity in their body.  Also, how do I come to terms with being seen as a lesbian, while still maintaining my heterosexual identity.  Is this possible?  The book I read said there are people who do this.  Things that were the same as LG spouses were that I strongly needed to focus on my own healing and still do.  I am still processing 6 months in.  Thankfully the transition process is slow enough  in our case to give me time to think.  (My spouse does not want to dress differently until the  physical body is more in line with the gender identity).  My spouse may have used me as a "beard" but it's not clear, because they are still attracted to me.  I worry about them being bisexual and eventually wanting to try being with a man.  It is important to know that trans people come in all sexual orientations.  Thanks!!

 

January 10, 2019 4:57 pm  #15


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

In response to OutofHisCloset:  From what I read, transpeople do not by definition have  autogynephilia, and to assume so is offensive to me (and would be to my spouse).  Just because someone needs to imagine themselves as being in a different body in order to be sexual does not make them only into themselves, it makes them human.  I do not think being trans is solely about sex.  For me, if a transperson does not or cannot choose gender confirmation surgery it does not change their ability to be a part of their gender identity.  Spouses of trans people who want to stay in the relationship have to have  an open-minded personality....

 

January 10, 2019 5:00 pm  #16


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

To walkbymyself
I did read about a straight man whose wife came out as trans and did transition.  I think the man is not comfortable being seen as gay in public, but they did stay together and they can be themselves  at home.  I think it may be less common that spouses who were men transitioning to women, but who can say?  

 

January 10, 2019 5:53 pm  #17


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

Deleted

Last edited by Duped (August 23, 2019 1:34 pm)

 

January 10, 2019 7:33 pm  #18


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

    Ah, Love 180.  At six months in I was in a place similar to you.  At three years and nine months I'm no longer in that place, and have realized the degree to which I bent myself in a pretzel to accommodate and please him, as well as the extent to which I rationalized to myself my actions and the reasons I did so.  So please don't demean me by suggesting I am closed-minded and don't have "an open minded personality."  What I did for my spouse proves the reverse.  I don't need you to validate or agree with my experience and the perspective I have achieved on it.  What I saw, what my then-spouse said, and did, is evidence that he is an autogynephile, and indeed, this is the term he applies to himself (he didn't transition but remains closeted).  
   I think what you are looking for is the MOM section, the final fourth one at the bottom of the page.  It's designed for those who are determined to maintain their MOM.  
  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (January 10, 2019 7:35 pm)

 

January 10, 2019 9:11 pm  #19


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

I certainly don't want to try and invalidate your experience, outofhiscloset.  And I didn't mean to imply you were close minded.  I am sorry for that and what you've gone through.  However, I don't like the insinuation that your experience of being with someone with a paraphilia applies to my partner or all transwomen.  And Duped, it sounds like you don't believe such a thing as trans exists since you put it in quotes.  Being trans for my partner is not all about sex.  I don't have to think about being a woman during sex because it's never been an issue for me.  My gender identity matches my body.  My spouse and many trans people feel like they are  outside their bodies looking in because their is a disconnect.  Transitioning lessens that disconnect.  Sure, I may need to go to the MOM page.  Perhaps I will find some support there.  :-/

 

January 10, 2019 11:03 pm  #20


Re: Questions for spouses of trans people

love 180
 You are reading into my post.   
   The South African singer-songwriter Johnny Clegg and his band Savuka have a song, "Giyani," whose lyrics have come to seem to me to apply to the situation with my ex: "Did you hear about the mouse who went to the cat for love/Cat said, "Mouse, I can't be what you're dreaming of./You're so lonely, you've got it mixed up/You're looking down below for what lies up above." 
  I think you're doing something similar with my views, reading into what I actually said in my post above because you need validation that you're not finding.  Why you need to do that is something you will need to ask yourself.  I made my decision and I'm out of the delusional world my ex wanted me to inhabit.  Your journey is going to be your journey. 

 

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