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March 18, 2019 11:10 pm  #21


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Here's what sticks in my craw. Ellexoh, you get on other threads and enable others' denial and hope with your "your journey" cant,  but when you are unhappy and chafing in your "r'ship," you feel perfectly fine sniping on this thread (you have even been called out on it); yet when others see what looks like "irresponsible advice" (to quote Lily) to a desperately hoping new arrival, and object, you cry foul.

I have to say, I have found it very encouraging to see how Ellexoh has shared her journey with us. She's listened and debated and sometimes gotten angry, and she's slowly evolved... all VERY human behaviors that show new members that we all have different pathways to our goals. I'd much rather a new member saw the raw, real, day-to-day struggle that goes into keeping any marriage alive, instead of blowing smoke up their tailpipe about any linear path to wedded bliss in an MOM.

I don't think she liked me very much when I sashayed in (heck, she probably still doesn't), but I think we have slowly gotten to a place of mutual respect. Nobody else can know what it is like in our shoes. But I admire her courage and her willingness to publicly discuss this tough topic, and that in itself... bringing these stories out of the shadows, removing the sense of shame... is an excellent example for our new visitors.

 

March 19, 2019 4:35 am  #22


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

The rollercoaster analogy is crazy. I note my point on that has been deleted but disagreeing with a flawed analogy is allowed, I am sure. And telling people to act for themselves is allowed also. So hopefully this post will remain.

 

March 19, 2019 6:55 am  #23


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

YazPistachio wrote:

lily wrote:

Once you are away from the gas lighting it is easier to catch up to yourself.

Not every disclosure involves gaslighting, Lily. If your partner lies and cheats, whether straight or not, that is an entirely different issue than their sexuality.

If you want to bail on an otherwise good partnership simply because your partner chooses to be honest with you about their desires, then perhaps your partner will indeed be better off without you. But if you both love each other, and want to make it work, and have already established trust and respect and a family and a life together, why not give it a year to see if you can move past the emotional fallout from the changed social and personal expectations (aka "the roller coaster") and rebuild your lives together?

It's tough. I won't lie; it's not for everyone. But for those who have made it work, it was definitely the right choice. My GH and I will be celebrating 20 years together this fall, and while it hasn't been a bed of roses, I will say that I feel cherished and cared for by someone I admire and trust and love with all my heart.

I hope you can find a path to peace and compassion towards other MOM spouses who want to make it work, but if not, maybe it would indeed be better off for the members of this subforum if you chose to express your doubt and pessimism somewhere else.

wow.  so did you ask for your post in which you savaged Duped be removed?  not sure what's going on here.  You seem to want to have a go at me and tbh I do have a theory as to why you do this - if you think your MOM is being attacked then you can defend it and this makes you feel better, but I have read some of your other posts and have sympathised with the deep sadness you express at times.  

Listen I did nearly twice as many years with my ex as you have yet done with your hubby.  

Being in a MOM, spending a whole life in a MOM is something commonplace.  Where else do you think all the gay people come from?

People are different in the way they operate.  Some people when they discover their spouse is gay just up and walk on the instant.  Not me, but my feeling is that it's a perfectly valid, even admirable way to go.  So I don't think it's necessarily good advice, but it's not in the same league as the 'roller coaster comment' which read like scare-mongering to me - don't leave or you'll regret it.

The whole point of gas lighting is that you don't know it's happening.  It's a form of manipulation.  I was a complete innocent.  But I'm a fast learner.  So in the 18 months it took from discovery to leaving I learnt a lot - and once he couldn't play me he needed, really needed another victim for his fun - and you know those people who ring up wanting to sell you something, well he took to baiting them and he boasted to me about how he had kept a salesperson on the phone for 45 minutes believing he might buy their product before they finally hung up.  

I simply trusted him, Yaz, I believed he loved me, it was a terrible awakening.  And that or something similar is often what the straight spouses who come here are facing.

Personally the conclusion I have reached is that my sexuality is key.  It connects my heart and soul  - that's the only way I can put it.  I had a studio in the garden, I moved my bed into it and lived there for a whole Winter, we didn't share meals.  So I didn't anticipate the difference I felt when I moved away.  In my own home, with all my fear and loneliness and shock I felt unutterably better, instantly more comfortable in my soul. 

Last edited by lily (March 19, 2019 7:14 am)

 

March 19, 2019 12:18 pm  #24


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Here's what sticks in my craw. Ellexoh, you get on other threads and enable others' denial and hope with your "your journey" cant,  but when you are unhappy and chafing in your "r'ship," you feel perfectly fine sniping on this thread (you have even been called out on it); yet when others see what looks like "irresponsible advice" (to quote Lily) to a desperately hoping new arrival, and object, you cry foul. 
  The poet  Robert Frost wrote that every metaphor breaks down somewhere. The roller coaster metaphor is an illogical non starter that may provide needed comfort (to desperate spouses grasping at straws), but wisdom or a guide for behavior it isn't.  That's why I asked my question, to encourage critical analysis.
  And now I'll leave you in the less uncomfortable state you like to inhabit. And hope new arrivals, who often come here, in the grip of denial, and convinced as many of us were that they can save their relationships, read the rest of the forum too.

 
I wouldn't even try to justify your criticisms of me...they come from a world of hurt I can't ever feel.
I hope voicing them made YOU feel better


** ...look pressure in the eye,  
walk towards it... **


 
 

March 19, 2019 12:34 pm  #25


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

YazPistachio wrote:

.............I don't think she liked me very much when I sashayed in (heck, she probably still doesn't)........

 
To be honest you seemed to present all kinds of threat...when you burst onto the Forum. As time has gone on though I've seen bits of you that seem very vulnerable.
I think many of us have to appear strong to avoid being hurt...Even by our peers....as we navigate "our journey"

Cheers Yaz


** ...look pressure in the eye,  
walk towards it... **


 
 

March 19, 2019 3:18 pm  #26


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

Well, no metaphor is perfect but it helps me to think in metaphor.  I'm not sure what I plan to do eventually and am fairly dubious my marriage will last but I find it helpful to take these things one day at a time and realize it's okay if I don't make all decisions today.  As someone who tends to stuff emotions and fell uncomfortable with hard emotions (but realizing I really need to process these emotions), I find the image of riding the waves (or the roller coaster or whatever) helpful to me-the point being, I can feel and process my emotions but wait for my emotions to get smoother before I make more deliberate rather than reactive decisions. I may be new to the network but totally not new to knowing I had a CDH.  And actually have a lot of medical experience in transgender although it's a different ballgame  when it's your own spouse. Part of the benefit of these forums is having folk listen non-judgmentally and not decide what is right or wrong for other people. Please be gentle with the people that are hurting. Just saying...
 

 

March 19, 2019 4:27 pm  #27


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

Just to re-emphasize-just a metaphor.  No hurry to get off right away, it's okay to wait for a smoother spot. I understand anger about gaslighting, have enough anger myself (and I have always had a lot of trouble connecting with my anger). But lots of reasons to proceed apace-financial, family, spiritual, and, hey, we actually are getting along quite well now. I have established some boundaries (which I think he's complying with).  It may end up being a "paper" marriage in the end or actual divorce but I happen to feel free either way.  Partly because I am not feeling like I have to make any permanent decisions right now.  I am fortunate in having my own career with ability to support myself comfortably which is not the case for everyone. Having children who are grown and out of the home makes things simpler-otherwise, choices might be even harder. I've been getting lots of professional counseling and affirmation along the way.  There is no one "right" answer. I have found the Straight Spouse Voices podcast series very helpful.

 

March 19, 2019 4:31 pm  #28


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

Hi Haven - there's roller coasters and there's roller coasters.

The inference in that quote is that if you abandon your marriage, drop it like a hot potato, it is going to be akin to falling off a roller coaster ride right in the middle of it when you are up in the air.  

The experience you hear more commonly from the people who do drop their marriage immediately is that they experience an immediate relief.  I believe them.  I experienced it when I did finally leave.

I had the same over-ride as you have expressed - I didn't want to make a hasty decision.  I'm a peel the bandaid off slowly type rather that rip it off and get it over with type of person so I just have to accept that but and here's another analogy - if you are a mouse and the cat has you in the corner and omg there's a chance to escape, why wait about?  

I like metaphors - they are pictures made of words and often express things quite clearly and easily.

I didn't get caught by the cat though I stayed another 18 months.  I think I did well, I might have given him everything if I'd fled the marital home before I understood him better.

It's just that simply getting physical distance, knowing it is over is a relief I hadn't expected to feel -  but I also know how important it is to do what you need to do, to take the next step that you have in front of you, and the only real advice we can ever give is trust yourself look after yourself be kind to yourself.

wishing you all the best, Lily

 

March 19, 2019 4:42 pm  #29


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

Well said, Lily.  I recently bought a book regarding divorce, "Think Financially, Not Emotionally."  It sounds like you gave yourself time to make a better decision for yourself. Sometimes time is needed to get beyond the purely emotional response so we can make the best life decisions for ourselves-financial, emotional and otherwise. 

 

March 23, 2019 9:03 am  #30


Re: Tools to Make Your MOM Work... The Zimmerman Study

Regarding The Zimmerman Study - I have no objection to the link to this study being posted on SSN.   To me it seems more like a propaganda piece than an academic study but that's just my opinion.  In the depths of my personal hell post disclosure I might have found solace in it.   

Where I think we've gone off track on this forum, however, is by allowing the creation of a safe area for posting of materials - like this - that cannot be challenged by healthy debate because of a "virtual fence" that SSN administrators approved protecting the thoughts of those who want to encourage MOMs without challenge or debate.     I will not register any negative comments about MOMs on this side of the forum - full stop, end of story. 

If this report stays up (which it should), I'd ask that SSN administrators post a qualifier at the beginning of the thread confirming that the rules of this forum do not permit forum members to comment upon it unless their comments are positive.    It is impossible to approach the topic of Mixed Orientation Marriages without exploring the unhealthy parts.  These marriages and relationships are so complex - there is no "one size fits all".  

To let the link to The Zimmerman Report sit there like a link to academic truth is misleading and not in keeping with the intent of this open forum.  It's really confusing.   

Last edited by JenS (March 23, 2019 9:26 am)

 

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