A further question:

Our goal is to provide support. 
If some people desire to stay in their MOM and come here for support in doing that.  What would be wrong with having a person who is currently successful in their MOM on the site to share what has worked for them and to help provide encouragement and support and constructive strategies?

unless it's false or misleading information I suppose??

Deleted

Last edited by Duped (August 26, 2019 2:37 pm)

Awesome post OOHC.  I appreciate your perspective and I agree with you very much.   From a personal perspective at least. 

Where I struggle is in wearing the hat of the forum admin, where my duty is to put aside my specific personal beliefs in an effort to make this forum most supportive to everyone who needs support. 

I agree that in my own life, I can't see how a MOM would be equally fulfilling for both parties.  I agree that it feels like someone would be left unsatisfied.  

But what if maintaining a substandard marriage is still better than getting a divorce?  What if age or health or financial reasons make separation a worse choice?   That certainly wouldn't have been the case for me, but I can imagine a situation where this is true for some people. 

I agree that the str8 spouse experience does constitute abuse.  Abuse is a terrible thing.  But are there circumstances where a person might chose to stay and maybe that choice is acceptable?  I don't know???  just spit balling here..   What if being married to a gay man in a comfortable home is better than being homeless because there isn't enough income to support two households?  What if staying in your sexless marriage is better than divorce because you have special needs or mentally ill children who both parties put in a priority over their own happiness?  

You don't have to answer these questions..  I'm just saying that even though in my life I can't see how staying in a MOM would be possible..  it doesn't mean that there aren't different people with different situations who might reach a different conclusion. 

For those people I think our forum should have an area that supports them in that effort.  

I know the idea that we've asked people who are not committed to a MOM to stay out of that forum causes people a lot of heartburn.  I apologize for that.  I will revisit with Sam and see if we still feel this is the best course of action or if maybe we can find another solution. 

Again.. I appreciate the open discussion and everyone's perspectives. 

You need to stand back and look at this from a broader perspective. If we have no safe place here where someone who chooses to be in or make an attempt at a Mixed Orientation Marriage can speak, then this no longer becomes the Straight Spouse Network - it becomes the Straight Spouses Divorcing Network. And that means that people will only come here if they have already made up their minds to divorce. Which they rarely do right out of the gate.  Most of us who chose to eventually exit the relationship did so after SOME period of floundering. Because we loved them. We wanted them to be happy. And we were willing to sacrifice at least some of our own needs in order to try to keep the relationship together, for whatever reason. Maybe fear of being alone. Maybe fear that we couldn't make it financially on our own. Maybe fear that it would break our children's hearts. But for most of us, there were days, weeks, months or years between early discovery and exiting the relationship. And you know what? WE NEEDED THAT TIME. We needed to try - even if it was futile.  Because then we could look back and say that we gave it everything we had, and that we have no regrets. So we need to respect that place that they're in - even if it wouldn't work for US - or anyone we know.

Somewhere, there are people making it work. Are they here? Maybe not.  But they exist - at least by their own admission. Are they truly happy? Who knows!!! Maybe they are. Maybe they are but won't be later. Maybe they aren't but haven't figured that out yet. Maybe they aren't but are too afraid to tell the truth. Who knows? The point is that it's not our place to choose. It's THEIRS. We are here to support them in their journey - not to tell them that their definition of marriage doesn't match THE definition of marriage.  We're a support network - not a fundamentalist church. We don't get to define what their marriage is, who they are, and what works for them.

Can we ask questions about how things make them feel? Sure! Can we push the envelope to try to make them see that they are as important as their spouse in this scenario? Absolutely. But we don't get to judge. That's inherently against a support network's point. If we were a place for abused spouses, we wouldn't encourage someone to stay with someone that's hurting them.  But.... we wouldn't tell them there's no place here for them unless they left. That would be utterly abandoning the person who's already got no one on their side. You build UP in order to get someone strong enough to make a good decision. You absolutely give your point of view - you never know what words may make something click for them that no one else has ever said before.  But you don't tell them that unless they do what you want them to, you won't support them. That's what their partner is already doing.

If it triggers you to read over on the MOM section, then please - don't go over there.  That's why it's there - it's their safe place from having to listen to us all tell them that they're wrong and that we can't help them in their goal of staying together.  It's the entire point of them having their own space.  I realize that it may make you angry to see people taking an elitist attitude about them being the long-suffering spouse. I totally get that. But if they're gonna learn otherwise, it's gonna be from experience - not from us telling them to cram it. That's likely the only thing they've got at this point. It's all their hanging onto - that their sacrifice is a gift and it will save their relationship. Let.them.have.it.

It's a gift to US too that they have their own space. We can totally avoid it if we want - to avoid being triggered. Unlike here, where we're reading everything and feel the need to jump in and speak when we disagree vehemently with something.  You may disagree with the entire premise of a MOM working. Fine - so be it. Then don't go over to where they are being supported in that decision. There's enough here to keep anyone busy without going to places we know will rile our feathers.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (July 25, 2018 10:01 pm)

Thank you very much Phoenix for your kind welcome. And I completely agree with you... "what's wrong with endorsing the notion that a MOM can achieve a happy outcome for some people?" Exactly, what's wrong with that? I would have liked to see some advice online that told me it was possible to be happy in a MOM, because I completely believe that it is possible.

I'm not saying I'm 100% happy in my marriage, but is anyone? Even in a normal marriage, no one can say they are 100% happy and that everything is perfect. Every marriage has its own problems, and different people can compromise on different things. Yes, being in a MOM makes my marriage more difficult, but there are so many good things in my marriage that both me and my husband are not willing to let go of. We're both willing to compromise for those good things, and there is nothing wrong in that.

I believe it's wrong to tell someone who just found out about this that their marriage is over, and there is absolutely no hope. I believe that both options should be on the table, and whatever each individual decides to do is up to them. We can only support whatever decision is made, but we shouldn't be making it for them and forcing it upon them.

As far as "promoting" MOMs "in the face of all the pain people are in" is concerned... I don't think anyone is promoting it. I think Yaz shared that thesis to help those who have decided to stay married in a MOM. I think that section of the forum is there for people like me who made that decision. I don't think that there's anything wrong in that, or that being in a MOM shouldn't be discussed because other people are in pain. I'm sorry, but that is just selfish. I shouldn't be allowed to discuss my problems, because you are in pain over your problems? We're all in pain for different reasons, and I thought this was a safe place to discuss those things without being judged. Apparently not.

And "not all situations are those that ought to be lived" is insulting. You are basically saying my husband and I's decision to stay together is wrong, and shouldn't be done. You then relate being in a MOM to being in an abusive relationship where one spouse beats the other. The two are nothing alike, and I find it really insulting to compare my husband to someone who beats their spouse. My husband is a gentle and loving person, and if we choose to work through something like this doesn't make him abusive.

I've read several things on here about how people in MOMs is insulting to those who didn't stay with their spouse, but all I see here is people insulting anyone who deciding to stay in their marriage. I don't think I'm "deranged" for wanting to stay married to my husband. Just because you tried things that didn't end up working, doesn't mean it won't work for anyone. You said yourself that your ex didn't want to compromise or consider your needs, and that's likely to bring failure to any marriage, not just a MOM. Maybe others marriages are different, and both spouses are willing to compromise and work through it, isn't that a possibility? Isn't it possible that someone else's marriage might work even though yours didn't? It doesn't make us "deranged". And no, I'm not in denial about the whole situation. Maybe sometime in the future my marriage will break down, who knows? But for the moment, we are happy in our marriage, even with our different problems. 

No one said you were "simply unable to adjust, or are unreasonable".  You didn't want to stay in your marriage, for whatever reason, and that is entirely your decision which you are completely entitled to make. No one should stay in a marriage they don't want to be in. And no one should be told they have to leave their marriage because other people think it can't work. Everyone is allowed to make their own choice. I completely agree that it must take a lot of work and strength to say no and leave your marriage, and no one is taking that away from you. It's something I've had an issue with in a past relationship, which actually was abusive, and it took A LOT of strength for me to finally walk away from that relationship. I know it's a difficult thing to do, and I admire those who manage to walk away from a relationship they don't want to be in. But it's unfair to say someone else's marriage is doomed based on your own experience, because maybe they want to be in that relationship. And just because they chose to stay in that situation doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to talk about it or have any support. I don't mean to be harsh, but that's like someone saying to you that you chose to get a divorce, so deal with it and stop talking about it.

Both Phoenix and Kel's posts sum up exactly what I'm thinking, and Kel is completely right that this seems like the Straight Spouse Divorce Network. It's deceiving to call it anything else. I came to this board not really for support, but more for a place to talk about my marriage openly and freely, be it the good parts or the bad, without having anyone judge me. I wanted to meet others in similar situations to me, whether they chose to stay or leave. But having this being the first thread I read on here has made me feel judged from the outset.

I'm now scared to talk about the problems in my marriage, or how my marriage makes me feel, because I know the only responses I will get are that I'm stupid for thinking a MOM can work. What's so different about me wanting to talk about my problems than someone in a "normal" marriage who has problems and talking about it on some other forum? This forum has done the exact opposite of what I was looking for, it's made me feel like there is no safe place to talk about this, but it hasn't changed my mind about staying in my marriage, because my marriage isn't based on what other people think. That's something my husband and I have always agreed on, is to never let anyone's outside opinion affect our relationship, because it's not theirs.

Last edited by Survival90 (July 26, 2018 3:16 am)