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August 19, 2016 4:43 am  #11


Re: Keeping Their Secret

You all make good points.  I need to take time to think and let my anger subside, I suppose.

 

August 22, 2016 7:27 pm  #12


Re: Keeping Their Secret

I recommend a book called the Secret Lives of Families".   Basically it says that secrets aren't always bad. Some things aren't anyone else's business.  However if the secret itself  is somehow toxic to anyone involved than it must not remain a secret.

 

August 23, 2016 8:42 am  #13


Re: Keeping Their Secret

He used his secret to facilitate massive quantities of cake eating.  He is now still keeping that secret and seeking out new female companionship while also maintaining his sexual relationship with his boyfriend.  So by helping him keep his secret, I am helping him doop the next women in his life and continue to be a disease vector in the community.  The probability of the people I would tell making any difference in that continuing story is nil as the former friends live many states away.  Still, it is a useful way to think about it.

My interest is much more directed at controlling my own reputation.  I find it highly objectionable that he is telling people our marriage is over because "she won't agree to go to counseling so the marriage can't be fixed" ... the strong insinuation here is that the problem was with me and furthermore I was unwilling to address it despite his long suffering attempts to save our union.  If they knew even a sanitized version of the truth, I would feel better.  Not sure why, but I would.

     Thread Starter
 

August 23, 2016 1:44 pm  #14


Re: Keeping Their Secret

Mine is not in denial either ... he has known since age 15 that he enjoys sex with both men and women.  I didn't meet him until he was 21.  He kept his secret not out of confusion, shame, or denial but rather to facilitate hiding his activities from me and because he knows most women (even the cheating kind) wouldn't agree to sleep with him if they knew the truth.  This is why I have no empathy for him ...  

     Thread Starter
 

August 29, 2016 6:58 am  #15


Re: Keeping Their Secret

JK,  I feel that way too!  I tried so hard to 'fix' my marriage, not knowing what the problem was.  My GIDXH is with a woman who 'understands' him now.  And he firmly says his orientation is not gay, but bi-curious and that he hasn't done anything with men for a few years now.  

He lost a friend that I told what he called "my suspicions" to.  I have told my story of what broke our marriage - serial infidelity with men and a woman to a few of our friends, and my sense is that they don't really want to know.  It is uncomfortable.  I wish I had been more careful in hindsight, but my howling pain made me want to shout to everyone I met how impossible my life had been with this man I did so much to try and help and please.  

So I couldn't keep his secret and he denies he is gay and is moving on with women.  I told our adult sons and they have been understanding, but also a bit stand offish as they don't want to get involved really.  I don't think it has eased my pain too much to tell his secret.  It feels like I have made myself overly vulnerable to people showing sympathy and that is hard sometimes as it is akin to pity and adds to my sense of sadness and loss.  So I would urge caution...know what it is you want to get out of that disclosure.  Justification or some sense of moral high ground doesn't really exist.  It is all toxic.  

 

August 29, 2016 9:47 pm  #16


Re: Keeping Their Secret

It's worth keeping in mind that even the LGBT community will out a closeted gay person, if that person is causing harm to others while hiding in the closet. It's not to humiliate someone or to get revenge, it's to stop further damage from being done.

I think we have to tell our stories. We can do it without being vengeful; if that is our motivation, we lose the high ground instantly. There is nothing wrong with being gay, as we know, there is nothing for us to feel blameworthy about for being married to one, but keeping the secret continues to spread the notion that there is something wrong and shameful about homosexuality, which is what started this whole mess in the first place.

The issue really is about two things, as I see it. Honesty, and acceptance of differences. You can out someone gently and do it in a way that proves your concern, sympathy and empathy, and that will give you the high ground, if you do it sincerely.  Example:

"We got divorced because s/he's gay, and s/he's having a hard time accepting herself. Staying married was doing neither of us a favor, and causing damage to both of us. S/he deserves to find happiness with someone who is homosexual, and I deserve to find happiness with someone who is heterosexual."

If you really want to earn the crowd's respect, you can say "We are getting divorced so that I can set him/her free to be the person s/he really is. S/he won't get there as long as s/he is holding onto me."  Watch their eyes bug out at that. But it gives you the high road, if you can say it sincerely.  If you out him for your own reasons, you look mean and selfish and homophobic. Make it about doing it for the other person, and you become magnanimous, even though your heart might be breaking inside.

If people feel awkward about that, ask them why the subject of homosexuality makes them feel awkward. Point out that that is what causes the problem in the first place, but you see it now, you've lived with it, and you're moving on with your life. If your ex gets angry about it, say you understand, but s/he has no right to ask you to lie about your own life. If they start spreading lies about you, the best argument against it is to live with your head held high and show by example that you are none of things s/he says about you. It might take some practice but it can be done.

No judgment. Factual. True. Honest. Express concern for your ex, which proves that you still have your dignity, and role models self-esteem for yourself at the same time. No hint of revenge or underhandedness. A teachable moment for others. If anything, they can tsk tsk at the lies and deception, marvel at how much you've had to put up with and yet remain such a decent and understanding person, and then you can point out, honestly, that all that behavior of theirs just proves how hard it is for them to accept themselves.

Then you can go home and pound your fists on the wall.

It's not easy to hold onto your wits while the sh*t is flying, but if you can do it, the payoff will be there. But if you out someone for revenge, anger, self-defense, you've already lost.
 

Last edited by BryonM (August 31, 2016 11:03 pm)


"I have given you my soul, leave me my name!"  - John Proctor, The Crucible
"Question everything you've been told; hold fast to what is true and good." - I Thessalonians 5:21
 
 

September 1, 2016 11:11 pm  #17


Re: Keeping Their Secret

I'd be very interested in hearing Cameron's views on this. Having lived that life for a time, and having since come out, Cameron, is this an acceptable instance for us to out our ex spouses?  We're talking specifically about those who are causing harm to their families. Is this different from say, Senator Larry Craig, or Ted Haggard, or that guy who was taking "rent boys" on vacation with him? I forget his name, George something, but I think he specialized in "ex gay therapy."  I might be remembering it wrong.

I don't see why I should be expected to compromise my integrity in order to keep a secret for my ex-wife (not that I've had to do it, but using myself as an example).  I'm not asking this as a justificaton for revenge, or to humiliate her, but to keep my honesty, self-respect and integrity intact.  Besides that, what about the notion that keeping the secret for them, or with them, just reinforces the idea that being gay is a bad thing.
 

Last edited by BryonM (September 1, 2016 11:12 pm)


"I have given you my soul, leave me my name!"  - John Proctor, The Crucible
"Question everything you've been told; hold fast to what is true and good." - I Thessalonians 5:21
 
 

September 3, 2016 10:23 am  #18


Re: Keeping Their Secret

To Dixie!

Exactly!! I agree with you 100 percent! These men were not confused about what they desired, but they allowed us to be confused, in the dark, and wondering what the heck was wrong while they made the next secreted move behind our backs! You couldn't have said it better! Just be aware that they do not stop their charade. It merely continues, they are very convincing. They also will always have followers who think the straight wife is the issue and that she has basically gone off the deep end with her thoughts. Almost always that following includes your XMIL who thinks insists its I mpossible for her son to have SSA even if the evidence is there. The XMIL is part of the main reason these men sought out a straight (to please them) as part of building their straight facade. Sadly, the duped targets can include children. Wishing you well.

 

September 3, 2016 11:38 am  #19


Re: Keeping Their Secret

Jill - I am so glad to see you posting on this new site.  I have always found your posts ringing so true with my own experience, and they more than most, make me feel validated and that I am not crazy.

It was the year after my MIL died, that my ex husband really went full force on me with the criticism and telling everyone else (including our children) how  horrible I supposedly am, and how he just had to get away from me.  That is when he decided he wanted a divorce, moved in with a man, and encouraged our children not to have a relationship with me.

I think this is a good point about the MIL's because I had not really thought about it this specifically before.  When I first met my ex husband, he often talked about his mother and how concerned he was about what she thought of him, would say to him, expect of him, etc.  I never thought at the time that it had anything to do with homosexuality, but looking back, I can see that it did.  Also, when we got married, she would say things like, "Who would have ever thought we'd see this!"  I think on some level she and other members of his family knew, but they just buried it.
 

 

September 5, 2016 5:20 am  #20


Re: Keeping Their Secret

RE: Bryon "It's worth keeping in mind that even the LGBT community will out a closeted gay person, if that person is causing harm to others while hiding in the closet. It's not to humiliate someone or to get revenge, it's to stop further damage from being done."


I don't know what LGBT community you have had experience with but the one I have personally experienced is not at all concerned with those being hurt by the closeted person. In fact, part of my own pain is from seeing posts my husband & his cross dressing/trans community applaud all their cake eating, encourage each other to eat cake & offer tips & lessons on how to further their passion, secretly of course, without the spouse being any the wiser. In their circles they have a joke among themselves that they think is absolutely hilarious, not so much to the blindsided spouse. They joke " What is the difference between a crossdresser & a Transgender? ...2 years!!!"....& then they lol & high five each other. For those that are not fluent in CD & Tranny grooming, the joke is that if you can slowly convince your spouse to ease up on the crossdressing reins, within 2 years you'll be happily on your way to Trans (& she won't know what hit her) This is my life & I am alone, with not one single LGBT community friend having spoken to me about my husband's secretive bullshit, nor any of them contacting me to see how I am coping. these friends were what I considered mutual friends.

I'm sorry, but maybe it;s simply that I am still in the shock/anger/heartache stage but I don't see any need for martyrdom at this point in "taking the high road and explaining to curious people "I set him free to see what he would become" bullshit. Maybe it's because I'm feeling the sting of being deviously led down this road, then having my heart & spirit trampled over by the GIDTG Mack Truck . After my husband has gobbled up the best 25 years of my life, and even still no balls or intention of telling the truth, he deserves NO privacy or respect from me. I leave that to God & Karma. When this divorce is settled, you bet ass I will be as free with my opinion as he has been with my heart & self respect. Being kind & supportive for 25 years got me no where but broken.

 

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