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Last edited by jkpeace (April 13, 2017 8:42 pm)
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In reading past posts, it seems to me that the people who were able to find gay counselors had the most luck. That would make sense as they can relate way more to what's going on and if they are good, might be able to see through any BS that comes up. As Cameron has always said, there aren't a lot of truly bi people out there. Eventually it typically goes to all in.
You are in a unique position in that he came to you first. That's at least a good start.
My former husband has never come out, and the little "together" counselling we did before the divorce, added insult to injury for me. The counselors seemed to zero in on my husband as being "depressed" and focused on that almost exclusively. I felt left out in many ways, and also felt some pressure to "understand" him and his depression, work stress, etc. to the detriment of anything I might have been going through - not totally, but that was the general bent. The gay thing was not a part of this; this was him wanting a divorce because I was supposedly so "critical and negative", (the usual that many of us here have experienced), and I had suggested counselling as an effort to try to hold things together. Also, the counselors never touched on the idea that there might be more wrong than his depression due to work and life stress. I don't think the possibility of gay ever would have entered the picture and I would have continued to be sidelined over his "problems", if we had continued. Not exactly the same as your situation, but some food for thought. For me, counselling was a waste of time and money and emotionally devastating in some ways. It might work with a very good counselor for you individually - one who knows about the gay thing and understands the side of the straight spouse, otherwise you could get the ones that sympathize with how hard it would be for the gay spouse to come out, seeming to ignore your side of things.
I know there are some here who swear by counselling and who have found it very helpful. Frankly, I did not and have found much more help from reading, walking, taking time alone, listening to music, self help, and more than anything - THIS FORUM. This is where all of my experiences and emotions have been validated, and where I have received the most in the way of suggestions and ideas for moving forward.
A lawyer can help you figure out how to move forward if and when you divorce. I have actually found that lawyers who do family law, estate and probate law, to be fairly well schooled in the emotions and family dynamics involved with these things, and they can be a good source of moving forward, actually. They are more blunt and there is less BS than with mental health counselors, but they know the score and can zero in on what you need to do.
Trust you gut, your closest friends and family, the experiences of others, and time and tide, for moving forward.
Sorry I can't be encouraging about the counselling, hope this helps in some way.
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On the opposite end of the spectrum - I know a straight couple who went to marriage counseling. Everyone but her knew he was cheating on her but no one knew her well enough to call her and out him. And she probably wouldn't have believed any of us because he was one of those that everyone thought was perfect. He eventually came clean (to his friends) that he had been misleading the counselor for FIVE YEARS telling her he was just stressed at work, he was too tired for sex, he didn't like people to touch him and he had no idea why and he wished someone could help him with that, pressure at work caused him to not be able to get an erection. It was all BS. He had no problem having sex with other people. I'm not his friend anymore - my guess is they are still "working" with this counselor to help him through his depression and stress issues and his inability to like being touched. All BS.
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We're doing counseling together as part of our divorce with a parenting coordinator, which is a licensed therapist who has also received training through the legal system. We're trying to work out issues having to do with our children. I've found it very helpful so far.
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Joint counseling can really only "solve" one problem ... poor communication. So if poor communication is the root of your marital problems, it can indeed be very helpful IF both parties want it to be successful. If only one person is truly seeking improvement, it will fail. And when the problem is a difference in sexual orientation, counseling can help both parties come to terms with that difference and discuss it more openly (again, only if both parties are willing to do so). Better communication can be achieved but resolving the underlying issue is impossible. Counseling cannot make someone be of a different sexual orientation. It cannot make them feel differently about who they find sexually desirable. It cannot help either party stuff their feelings of shame, hurt, denial, whatever deep inside or set them so free that the relationship can then continue unaffected. And for those spice (plural of spouse!) who have chosen to act on their desires with others, TGT becomes a really confusing smokescreen. Someone who has chosen to lie and cheat is an unworthy partner regardless of the gender of their affair partner(s). Individual counseling to help you come to terms with your own feelings, needs, boundaries, and so forth is much better time and money spent. Just my two cents.
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My GIDX and I had counselling early in our marriage. I had found gay porn at that point. Looking back it was not helpful because he was so deeply in denial. If your husband is really committed to being honest with his feelings, then perhaps you at least have a chance. Good luck. I wish you all the best with your journey.
I look back at things that came up in counselling and GIDX was very quiet and said he "didn't have a voice." He just didn't know how to use it. He was very submissive and passive. I am a strong minded woman and so he was able to paint me as forever the harridan out to make his life difficult. The blame game just didn't work anymore once it all came out, yet in a recent text to me he chided me for playing the "victim." And it is just so hurtful because I didn't DO anything except continually seek intimacy. We had sex, but he was hiding so much of his life struggle and blaming me for many of his feelings.
I think the whole submission and domination thing is interesting here. Maybe your husband is a more dominant type and so is more able to express his need clearly and be honest. I think many of the male GID spouses probably are submissive types who are very weak and fearful and so they then blame their unsuspecting partner for the deep and lasting frustration they feel in their lives and particularly at their own powerlessness to change and fully embrace their uncomfortable feelings. Hopefully you can both embrace your feelings and work thru them in your sessions. I would love to hear of a happy ending here! x
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jkpeace: "Does anyone know of anyone, ever, who benefited from couples counseling?"
I think you might want to clarify for yourself what you mean by "benefited" from couples counseling. You yourself said two different things - 1) that maybe counseling would help make a divorce go more smoothly, or 2) maybe this is just a wish that counseling can still make "this" (I presume you meant your marriage) work out. Those are two very different outcomes / benefits.
My dad did couples counseling, both pre- and post- marriage, when he was still a pastor. I remember once he said, couples never come into counseling saying their marriages are so good, so perfect, that they want to learn how to make it even better. Half the time when they came in for marriage counseling, they were really looking for divorce counseling and knew that was what was coming, but neither partner wanted to be blamed for the marriage coming undone. The couples who were able to work it out were the ones who came in with a shared goal, were sincere and honest about it, and were able to own whatever part they played... and even those often led to divorce anyway, once they were honest with each other.
The point is, to be clear on what you want from counseling. If you aren't sure about what you want, admit that so that the counselor knows that going in. Counselors aren't mind-readers, they can only work with what you tell them. If you are confused or uncertain, that IS your honest situation and he needs to know that. But if you tell him you want to prepare for divorce, yet secretly you want the marriage to work out, you are working against yourself, and against the counselor. It's okay to tell him you aren't certain what you want... his job is to help you (both of you) get clear on that, but not necessarily to decide it for you.
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JKP, we did four sessions of discernment counseling. The purpose was to determine whether we should split up or try to make the marriage work. He lied and denied all thru those sessions, so in the end the answer was clearly divorce. The therapist seemed to know he wasn't honest, as she pushed him to come out during their one private session, but he would not. It was good for me in that I was willing to hear him out in front of a therapist, but bad in that I just watched him continue to lie. But good in that it helped validate that I couldn't stay married to him.
So maybe going in with the goal of deciding whether to try R or go straight to D might be helpful for both of you. Good luck!
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JKP:
Glad I could help. The statement as you wrote it will probably provide plenty of ground to cover, and the way you wrote it, states your dilemma clearly, as painful as it is. Let's hope for both of you that your husband is able to do the same.
We didn't do couples counseling, so I can't say what might have happened in my case. But one thing my personal therapist had me do, early on, was to start journaling, which was new to me. Just one page at a time, once a week, what she called my 'reaction' paper. Write down and describe how I was reacting to our sessions. One of those times I came back with nothing written down, and I had to explain, "I don't really know what my reaction was, so I didn't know what to write about it..." To which she said, "But that WAS your reaction." The point being, sometimes the truth is "I don't know."
That was an "ah-ha!" moment for me, learning to be okay with uncertainty, even to express it... I had to learn that sometimes clarity doesn't come to us until after we acknowledge the uncertainty.