I think that you come across as very controlling of your wife and are continuing this in trying to steer her here and suggesting that we post messages to her in advance. To me it's creepy.

Are you hoping that we will convince her to free you - what you have been unwilling to do for yourself? Maybe she is not physically demonstrative because the only man she has been intimate with you. There is a world of difference between a gay man who can manage intercourse with a woman and a straight man who is passionate about it. A member of a previous board called it "The Difference" and it is what Kel is over-the-moon about.

If your wife is "an educated, successful professional woman" she can make her re-make her future to be  as happy as she sets her mind to. In short, she may not miss you as much as you think. Give her a chance.

yes, it is a hot topic.

Consider this Count.  Here is this woman that you have been attracted to, gone dating with, fallen in love with, proposed to, married, had children with and now you are getting divorced.  could you get any more intimate with a person?  could you invest any more of yourself?  

and yet here you are saying "One day I would like to know my exs true story."  

That in itself speaks volumes.

Unfortunately, the way society is progressing we are going to see a lot of overt MOM's.  The sort where the gay one says I'm bisexual and I choose you.  add in a 'you're the one I love' and the naive straight believes it will be okay.  no it won't.

You end up where Gary and his wife have.  gruesome isn't it.

once burned twice shy.  it hurts and it's tough going in the early stages but you do end with a good sense of who you want to be with and you've learnt so much to protect you.

Ok...here I am again.  

​Duped.  I did basically say that I was good guy.  I also said I was/am a deceitful, selfish, cowardly piece of crap.  Can one be both at the same time?  Or is it like an oxymoron?  So many questions but still food for thought!

​So what am I not proud of?  It's a fair, but difficult question but since I put it out there I'll answer briefly (I'm sure you don't want to read the entire book that I could write on the subject!)

​1  With the passing of Billy Graham today, I've been thinking all day about what kind of Christian am I.  The only thing I can think of is NOT A VERY GOOD ONE!  In fact, I'm a pitiful excuse for a Christian.  

​No good Christian man, gay or straight, should be looking at porn even if infrequently.  Sometimes it almost seems like men are hard-wired to seek pornography, but that's no excuse.  I shouldn't be doing it AT ALL.  I should be a better example to my girls and all that interact with me. During these times of depression my faith takes a beating when it should be increasing.  I've really got to do a better job of that.  

​A little old lady at church that hugs my neck before I leave church every week suggested to me that I'd make a good Elder.  I told her I couldn't because I was too flawed of a person.   Her response, "WHO YOU???"  Yes, me.  She didn't believe me but if she knew what sorts of things went through my head she'd probably never speak to me again.  I hate it but that is the truth.

​2.  My wife.  I think for at least the past 15 yeas I have a pretty good track record of how I've treated my wife on a day-to-day basis.  That wasn't always the case.  I didn't treat her as badly as some of the gay spouses that you describe, but still far less than then stellar back then and far less than she deserved.  I know most of you think we shouldn't be married at all, that's ok, you may be right, I certainly agree that we should have never married in the first place but what is done is done.  All I can do now is ask for forgivness and move forward.  Where is forward, we shall see.  

​So what are some of these things beyond lying to her before/when we were married.  There are probably many that I don't remember but during the first crisis about 20 years ago I dragged her to counseling which I shouldn't have,  I practically demanded that she be more affectionate.  I realize now that was very wrong.  She can't change that any more than I can change being gay.  It was so unfair to her.  Just things like that.  We loved each other through it all and survived but so many regrets around that time.

​3.  Pornography.  I didn't spend a lot of money and time on porn but it was still way too much.  Of course any is too much.  What I most feel badly about here is that before the internet, when there was an adult bookstore seemingly on every corner, I would stop on the way home and shall we say, consume porn.  The bigger problem is that when I got home an hour or so late I would make a lie to my wife to cover.  I really shouldn't have done that.  Thankfully most of the bookstores are gone but unfortunately the internet makes it so easy.

One example of #1 and #2 combined that I'll unfortunately always remember is as follows: Many months before my wife and I married I was probably joking around or something.  I don't remember what I said but she got her Bible out and made me swear that I wasn't bisexual  (it may have gay but doesn't matter).  Well I certainly wasn't going to put my hand on a Bible and say I wasn't bi or gay so instead I put my hand on the Bible and said " I have never slept with another man" or something to that effect.  That was true but it was also a huge lie and taking the Lord's name in vain.  

​Lyonene.  I do appreciate your bluntness which I also think is truthfulness.  

​I've been thinking some about your quotes from the people we think are an a-hole.  I think many like that also have problem with sex addition.  Back 20 years ago I went to group therapy for sex addiction and also attended one SAA meeting.  I used to think one was either a sex addict or not, a 1 or a 0,  now I realize that it is more of a continuum.  I think I'm on the continuum but on the lower end.  In  group therapy and SAA I heard some things that I just couldn't believe that people would do.  Having sex in the park and getting arrested repeatedly,  spending tens of thousands of dollars on phone sex, stalking women and getting arrested for it.  I realized that my problems paled in comparison to theirs.  Sex addiction is a pretty much like alcoholism.  It's a disease.  If you're an alcoholic it is your responsibility to seek treatment so as to not hurt yourselves or others.  Sex addition is the same way.  I think TGT probably adds strength to the addiction.

​In the later part of your post I disagree a little bit.  My wife knows all those things occur but I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to know the details.  I suppose it is still deceit but I don't really want to know who she may fantasize about either!

​Abby.  I don't want to sound like I'm mocking your or making light of your point but I had to laugh out loud about the "controlling"  comment.  Everyone that knows us can tell you that my wife wears the pants in our family.  I'm very docile.  I couldn't control her if I wanted too.  I don't.  

​As for my wife and the suggestion that you leave messages for here does seem creepy in the absence context. When I initially posted I thought that would pretty much be it for this thread.  It didn't even cross my mind that my wife should come here.  Many of you challenged me, some were thankful and got the message I was trying to convey, others did not (which is OK..I understand).  Almost everyone, after the initial post, suggested that I shouldn't be here but my wife should.  After thinking about it for a while I concluded that they were right.  The problem is that my wife isn't one who is interested in visiting sites like this so I knew it was a long shot.  It was even less likely that should would post anything that you could respond to.  So my reasoning is that in the unlikely case she did come here she would be more likely to hear from you if you left a message.   BTW.  I asked her today if she'd like to come here and she said absolutely not!  I think, well I know, she doesn't want to come her because it would be a constant reminder of her gay husband.  She'd rather the subject just not come up often or at all.  I understand that too.

​So we'll agree to stipulate that my wife is a strong, smart woman.  I agree with you that she can re-make herself without me.  She would be comfortable financially and I'm sure she'd have the support of our kids, family and friends.  I'd support her too as she thought appropriate (she did say we'd always be friends).  I have faith in her that she can do these things if she wanted.  The problem I have with your statement is that you seem to assume the she's too weak to make to make the decision to end the marriage if she wanted to (or ask me to end, officially).  I assure you that isn't the case.  She is by no means weak or under my thumb.  If anything, it's the other way around.  I need her more than she needs me, at least financially.  I appreciate you giving her credit but just give her a little more.

​Count.  I too agree and hope that MOM's will be far fewer in numbers these days. The thought has come to me several times that I was born 30 years too soon.  These days HIV can be prevented and suppressed with meds and being gay is far more socially acceptable.  It would certainly be a lot easier to come out and be a gay man these days.

​Lily.  Yes, it certainly is gruesome.  Like everyone else here, I think that no one should ever have a MOM.  If you're all fully informed and want to do it anyway, oh well, you have that right.  However, it's going to come back and bite you in the butt in a few years.  Avoid MOM's like the plague.

​My wife.  My wife and I had "the talk" that I wrote about planning yesterday regarding what she wants.  It wasn't a good time for it but I thought I might as get it out of the way while I had the courage.  Sure enough, it upset her to talk about it.  I told her to take her time and think about it.  I told her I wanted to stay and continue the good, although flawed, relationship we have and the depression is getting slowly better but I couldn't promise anything about that.  She said she'd think about it and get back to me in a couple of days. She's really happy when we don't talk about TGT.  I told her to tell me this thing and then I'd put the subject back in the closet with me. I know that's not healthy but we'll wait and see what she says.

​Have a good night all.  thanks for your responses.

 

Gary,

Your wife is really happy when you don't talk about TGT because then she can pretend it doesn't exist.  You mention the church and the Bible a lot, and I'm from that world.  I know that the Biblical philosophy (on almost all sin) is that we are bound to be presented with temptation, but it's how we act that determines whether or not we're sinning.  (that's not entirely true because as it says, having lust toward someone in your heart is actually a form of committing adultery with them).  But generally speaking, unless you're constantly telling people about the thoughts in your head, they think you're being a good person.  They think those thoughts aren't there.  Your wife is aware that you have same sex attraction, BUT...... she thinks that it's a very low-key issue since she's not seeing evidence of it, and you don't bring it up.  When you bring it up, she's being made aware yet again that this issue still does exist for real in her marriage.  Which makes me think that she does NOT understand just how big of an issue this really is for you.  She thinks it only makes its appearance often enough to never harm the marriage.  She is NOT aware that it's on like a low hum of white noise in her relationship all.the.time.

The problem with TGT ISN'T that there is attraction to others - it's that generally speaking, it's that you do NOT have attraction for the sex of the person you're with.  We straights often make the mistake when we hear "bi" of thinking that it means that you're equally attracted (50/50) to both sexes, and since we're one, we're fine.  Only, it doesn't tend to work out that cleanly for most bi people.  What it tends to mean is "Men hit 100% on my excitement meter - females..... 10-40%.).  For men, I feel SUPER excited.  For women.... Meh."  If us straights KNEW that's what you meant, we might decide to leave - because no one wants to know that they're hitting a 4 out of 10 at best on their spouse's potential meter for them.  They think this is all you're capable of as far as passion - or that you're AT a 10, but you're just not showing it as plainly as someone who's more demonstrative of their passion.  They would be wrong.  And it makes ALL the difference in the WORLD.  THEY think that so long as you don't cheat, the two of you are good.  When in truth, you two are never really good - it's always just "meh".  You may think that I'm wrong - that you have a great relationship with your wife on a ton of different levels, and sexuality is just one.part of your relationship, and the two of you are happy.  I used to think that with my gay ex, too.  And boy oh BOY was I wrong.  Dead wrong.  Passion and desire can't be boxed up that way - it permeates the entire relationship, and becomes the background white noise (in a good way) to the marriage.  Without that, you're literally just good friends, roommates and co-parents.

How do you rectify this with your Christianity?  I don't know - good question!  Every other plain old sin is right out there - you could be a drug addict and as long as you don't touch the stuff, you're free and clear.  Same with alcohol.  You could have physical abuse tendencies but if you never touch your partner in that way again, the issue doesn't exist.  You may internally fight with yourself day and night to do the right thing - to refrain from the sin - and you'd still be okay if you avoided the actual sin.  This is not the same, though.  This is something that robs your partner (and you) of the hum of life in your marriage.  Abstaining from cheating is a HUGE deal, but unfortunately is is NOT everything.

If your wife gets upset when discussing TGT, it means that she's upset that the issue is still present.  Without you discussing it and her seeing evidence of the problem, she literally thinks it's not a constantly present problem.  It's JUST like porn - if the wife doesn't see you looking at it or find evidence of it existing in your life, she thinks it's not a problem.  If she doesn't see your head swiveling toward others all the time, she thinks the issue doesn't even exist.  She has no way of really understanding how pervasive it is.  Only in that case, you would still likely have a 10 on a 10 scale of attraction for her (if what you were attracted to is females).  With TGT, that's not the case at ALL.

Kel
 

Gary...I am sure you decided I didn’t want to read a book on the things you aren’t proud of because it was an easy way to leave out most of the things you did. I note also that you “can’t remember” much of it. Oh HOW we have all heard that line, whoopsie darling I just forgot all the shitty things I did.

Rather than avoiding porn as a better example to your daughters, how about you set them a real example about how to be true to their core and live a life they can be content with? I use the word content but I mean free from, depression, trauma, sadness, repression, lies and deceit. Now wouldn’t that be what a good, loving father really would choose to do? Just averting your eyes from porn is a bit lame in comparison huh?