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Support » The house of cards is tumbling... » February 22, 2021 12:08 pm

I cannot speak from experience, but OutofHisCloset always has wise words.

My first thought was absolutely DO NOT BUY A HOUSE.  You know your life has to change, so don't go making huge investments with this person.  Even living together for a year or more while they "get on their feet" sounds troubling to me.  Are you prepared to separate and watch your ex date under your roof?  How will your daughter feel about you living separately together? I imagine it would be far healthier for your daughter to see you two truly separate and live two separate lives apart, rather than side by side.  

I also agree to speak to a lawyer--speak to a couple if you wish, but know what rights you have, what obstacles you might face.  Your spouse has had years of support from you, even during this last year+ while you carried the load and they transitioned, so when you start changing things up, threatening their way of life, they may put up a fight.  

As for your child, she needs the best of you.  The best of both parents.  What situation gives her the best?  

General Discussion » Chump Lady drops a truth bomb on a straight spouse » February 22, 2021 11:55 am

It sounds like you're going to suffer either way -- you leave your marriage and you might face judgement and ostracizing.  If you stay in this marriage, how much will your mental and emotional health suffer?  What about that of your kids, as they watch a dysfunctional marriage? Which is worse?  

I agree with OutofHisCloset--thinking about what my kids were SEEING in our marriage is what made me finally realize it's ok to leave. I finally told myself, I cannot be everything my children need if I stay in this marriage.  If all of my energy and emotions are being poured into him, or "survival" mode, what is left for me to give to them?  Likely, their father cannot be what they need either.  While I feel like my experience pales in comparison to what many here have gone through, I still recognized that he lied, that he traumatized me, that I no longer trust him, and frankly, I no longer feel that loving devotion that I felt in the first weeks post-disclosure.  I might feel like I love the person I thought he was--but he's not that person now, and I don't love the person I've seen him be in this last year since disclosure. Fight or Flight - and my mind is now trying to flee.  

Like Julian said about her MIL - we deserve to feel true, unadulterated love.  A love that doesn't break our boundaries, our trust, our hearts.

General Discussion » Trigger Warning: Netflix's Firefly Lane » February 17, 2021 3:55 pm


If anyone's watching and doesn't want spoilers, you might skip my post. 

Elle, the gay brother is introduced early on.  At first he was just doing his thing quietly (only one person knew about his male partner), but eventually he went deeper into the closet by marrying a woman without disclosing a thing to her.  It does not allude to cheating or a sexless marriage or anything like that, but enough was said across one episode in particular to utterly destroy me as I saw the parallels to my own life. So that was my trigger. The wife doesn't get much face time either, she throws a couple one-liners that point to "red flags" but her story is not told.  

Other triggers I noticed include teen rape and miscarriage.

As I said, I haven't read the book, but I just did a quick search - and although he was a character in the book, the article said his sexuality was never explicitly discussed and it was assumed he was straight.  So, perhaps he was changed for the show to be one of the token diversity characters because the timeline of 70s-early 2000s give a lot of fodder for a gay male storyline.


General Discussion » Trigger Warning: Netflix's Firefly Lane » February 17, 2021 1:32 pm

If you haven't watched Firefly Lane, but are thinking about it, I wanted to offer warning that there is a side story that might need a trigger warning.  There are actually a few other issues addressed that might be triggers for other people, but specifically for straight spouses, just know that it seemed to go from a minor side story to playing a major part in one episode, and I spent that entire episode sobbing.  

(I've never read the books, so I don't know if these parts were added or not.)

Is He/She Gay » Feeling alone in this » February 17, 2021 12:05 am

As I made a comment about the "negativity" here once, I'm going to jump in for a second on that thought.

I think perhaps negative wasn't the right word for what I was thinking at the time. I think it's overwhelming.  The sheer amount of abuse and trauma that other spouses have gone through is horrifying.  In a way, it was a relief to find stories to help myself understand what I was going through, but sometimes it just magnified my own trauma and shame over all of this. Misery and unhappiness are also contagions, and hearing all the terrible stories just overwhelmed me even more. I had to step back for awhile until I could deal with my situation in my own way. But honestly, yes, some people here are just more blunt than others. That's not a bad thing, and it seems some straight spouses need/want to hear it that way, but in the beginning, it was just too much for me emotionally.  Now, I am in a better place, I can look past the bluntness, because I understand it better, where it's coming from, and that the straight spouses here are genuinely looking out for the other straight spouses. 

Support » Advice for young person? » February 11, 2021 5:59 pm

MillennialMess wrote:

One thing I’m struggling with so far is separating him/our relationship and what he’s done to me. I can’t reconcile it to make sense- maybe it never will. But besides the obvious way of being a bad husband- he wasn’t a bad husband if that makes sense. He was kind, wanted to spend time together and plan things he thought we would enjoy, helped around the house ect. Even as we divorce, he still offers to come help me shovel snow ect. As my mom said “besides him being an asshole- he’s not being an asshole”. I think you all know what I’m saying. But then I think all the other thoughts- the lies, cheating ect. And I just don’t understand- how is it the same person?

I've thought about this a lot, as I had the "perfect marriage" in everyone's eyes.  When it first came out, I was blindsided, I had a great marriage, he was great to me, it wasn't possible.  My husband isn't a bad person.  The good was there, and that's all I chose to see.  Hindsight is 20/20 though, and once I stepped out of the fog of denial, little things made more sense.  I think these "great spouses" have gone out of their way to put on the appearance of being a great spouse.  I can't speak for your husband, but mine would go out of his way to get attention, to be seen, to get validation, approval, show the good things he did.  My husband too, was bullied a lot growing up and I think some of his issues stem from that...kind of a "f--k you, I turned out great and have the best life" mentality.  But really, I wonder if it was like he was so miserable inside, he would do whatever he could to make people like him, to make people see him as a good person, and maybe to see him as the Model Straight Husband and Father.  So I was seeing all the good, because he went out of his way to make the good known....but this made me doubt myself when I questioned the not so good things that bothered me.  Not wearing those rose-colored glasses an

Is He/She Gay » Anyone have experience of a deeply closeted partner? » February 9, 2021 10:20 pm


I'm sorry you find yourself here.  All of our experiences are different, but I do see some similarities between your story and mine.  

I also found out right at the beginning of the pandemic. Lovely timing.  

In a nutshell, this is our story. Husband disclosed he is attracted to men, admits he wants to explore that side of his sexuality, but is "confused" and "torn" and all those other words.  He's implied he was gay, embraced bisexuality, said he might be using bisexuality to mask his true identity, tried to say he was gay, said he thinks he's more bisexual than anything, wants to work on us, blah blah blah.  I've heard it all.  I just basically tell him I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth anymore, and I silently plan my exit strategy. 

Because now, I am inclined to agree with lily.  The "confusion" now feels deliberate.  It's not just that actions speak louder than words, but I've listened to what he doesn't say.  Reading between the lines reveals a lot!  I don't believe they are confused about their sexuality, but rather, about how to deal with their sexuality and their marriage.  If they can sow the confusion, they can keep us on the hook longer while they figure out the next step.  Their goal, now that we know, is to stay one step ahead of us. 

When it's all over, I'm sure I'll hear "How could she not know?" but I think lily is right, will we ever hear "How could he do that to her??" 

I also get aggravated by the whole "It's not my secret to tell."  It's not some surprise birthday party. It's a lie, and why is it my lie to keep, when it prevents me from telling my story?  This is my life, and when I'm ready to tell my story, he better damn well be ready.

Support » Advice for young person? » February 9, 2021 6:36 pm

Well, I'm only a few years older than you.  I've noticed that I am one of the youngest people on the forum until now.  I thought this whole thing was a thing of the past, that this wasn't a prevalent issue in our generation.  How wrong I was, obviously.  

I did get married much younger though, and we started a family almost right away--so here I am 15 years of marriage and four kids later, almost one year post-discovery (of his being attracted to men, no proof or reason to believe he's cheated though), and wondering when I'll finally have the courage to walk away from what was the "perfect marriage" that is now destroying me.   

You had so much stolen from you. Your story is real, your feelings are real.  Find someone to talk to that doesn't invalidate your feelings.  Post here.  Even if we are different ages, or at different stages of life, those here, we understand your pain. 

ETA:  I know you don't want to hear "at least it happened now...." but in my case, I guess I am kind of glad it happened now, rather than another 10+ years down the road.  Even though I didn't go into parenting with the intention of being a stay at home mom, it was what eventually happened.  (I stayed home for about a year after the second was born, went back to my former position for about a year, and then quit for good--then we had two more children.)  Now I've been home for around a decade, and the thought of going back into the work force is scary.  I cannot imagine if I'd been out for 20-30 years.  There is a lot of stigma associated with being a young, divorced woman (with or without kids) and it's all so scary.  But scarier is the thougth of giving him more of my life after he stole so much already.  I just want to find the strength to move on and put this all behind me to the best of my ability. 

General Discussion » telling the kids » February 9, 2021 6:10 pm

I haven't reached the point of actually separating yet, so we haven't told the kids anything, but here are my thoughts. My older two kids are about the same age as yours, and at that age--it's possible he already suspects.  He could have come across something at dad's house, overheard a conversation between dad and someone or sister and someone.  They're also just very perceptive, so it's possible he might wonder about his dad.

If he has asked you directly, I would give your ex one last opportunity.  I would tell your son something along the lines of "I think it should come from your dad, so if you want to ask him first you can, and then I'll tell you my side of the story..." and then go from there. The whole "it's not my secret to tell" thing baffles me--on the flip side, it's not your lie to keep.  We all know lies don't do anyone any favors, so if he asked, I would absolutely tell him.  

If he's not asking, I would think about why you want him to know.  Is it just so he knows, or so he knows it wasn't your fault? Then I would let your ex know that if he doesn't tell him soon, you will tell him when the opportunity arises naturally--he's at that age where you're going to be having sex and dating talks, so it's not like you have to wait around forever to tell him if you think he deserves to know.  

I don't know if it's a "dad/son" thing.  My husband is terrible at any type of "big" conversations, with me or the kids. Imagine my surprise when I realized I was going to be the one having the sex talks with my sons.  He has already said he's terrified of the girls, so I hope I don't suddenly die before both of them go through puberty.  

Support » Can’t sleep (again) » February 5, 2021 10:58 am

Epiphany wrote:

He gets this attitude when he shares things and then I want to discuss them further and says “see this is why I can’t share stuff with you”. I asked him why me wanting to discuss things further is an issue? Like why does he feel he needs the counselor to come to his truth? I think he’s afraid of saying something that will make me upset but what he needs to understand is I’m going to get upset! And that’s normal. Just cause it’s hard or uncomfortable doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about..

This!! My husband says all the time if I ask a question or ask to discuss something further, "Why, so you can you just use it against me later?" This angers me for two reasons.  

1.) This is blame shifting, making uncomfortable conversations MY fault?  NO.  
2.) You don't get to say whatever you want, and expect me to accept it at face value.  You've already proven you aren't trustworthy 

My husband would rather give the silent treatment (which is a form of emotional abuse) than talk about anything that makes him uncomfortable.  It's like if he says one thing he knows he's lying, if he says something else it'll either hurt me or make him look like the bad guy.  He doesn't want me to have "ammunition" so to speak, especially if I talk to my one confidant, because it'll "make him look bad." (Not his words - but definitely how he thinks.) Well guess what, he IS the bad guy right now.  We're not in this shit show because of anything I did.  Well...I've stayed when I now wish I'd already left, so I'll take the blame for that.  

We have had those emotional ups and downs too.  When he senses me pulling away, I feel like he drops a "token effort" to try to make me think he cares.  The last time I made it clear I have started to emotionally detach and want to separate, he texted me the next day that we should try marriage counseling.  Now?  NOW he wants to try? I think it's because he feels himself losing his grip on me.  I d

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