Thank you, Lily, Daryl, and Sean for taking the time to speak with me.

We are both in our early 40s now. He was open with me (only me) about his bisexuality, and I was accepting of his attraction to men. Others may disagree, but I do not believe sexuality is a choice, and frankly if there wasn't such a need in our society to make people fit perfectly into one tiny box, I think many of us might not have need to share our painful stories here.

"This is a red flag to me. It seems you already had your fears about his attraction to men before you married."
To be honest, my fears were more about my possible inadequacy and how it would affect his and our overall happiness. I am not attracted to women sexually, so I am unable to relate to those feelings and the impact it has on relationships. I know many times both sexes hold attraction but the idea of a LIFE falls more to one or the other. I trusted his word since I'd not had any reason to think otherwise.

"If it was Grindr, Scruff, or Hornet, these aren't gay dating apps. They are gay sex apps men use for hook ups. I know because I've used them. That may sting a bit my friend but I just wanted to be completely honest in my replies."
Yes, I mis-labeled this in my comments. It was Growlr, a sex app for his type of man. I also knew he had used a site before we rekindled our relationship called Farmers Only(?) or something like that but I'm not sure what type of site that was.

"I applaud you for kicking him out. That took a lot of courage. First and foremost, if you've been having unprotected sex with your husband, please get tested for STDs immediately. If you do choose to have sex with him in the future, always use condoms. In my experience, cheating is a bit like an iceberg: 9/10ths of the truth is often under water. So I'd take his "four men" and just assume that's bullsh*t. If he's been on Grindr (or other sex apps) for years, he's likely been cheating with dozens of men. So for the sake of your health, I'd err on the side of caution. Get tested for STDs, always use condoms, and assume he's cheated with more than just four men."
You read my mind on this one. He said four; I assumed that means 40. I have an appointment on Tuesday with my physician to begin all recommended tests. Definitely not a position I thought I'd be in as someone who has been monogamous since 1998 and only had one other partner prior.

"Love for me means...
Marriage for me means...
​A husband should..."
I began this list earlier in the day yesterday from one of your previous posts. I kind of feel like I'm in the Denial/Bargaining stage of mourning. The idea of expanding our sexual horizons is/was exciting for me, I will admit. However there would be a line at which my dignity would be compromised, and I don't know I could ever trust him to respect that.

I have often suspected he has bipolar disorder but he has never treated me with anything but gentleness until now. I have often considered myself so lucky to have a thoughtful partner who is so lovely to be around. I think that's why this sudden anger and cruelty is especially shocking. He's like a different person.

"This may be painful to read, but I believe he's already moved on my friend."
I sadly agree with you. I think he had already moved on before I knew anything about it, and he's projecting his guilt back onto me so he can make me the villain in this story I had no part of.

As much as I WANT to have hope we could be saved, logic and reality disagree. I have a trusted therapist I will continue working with. (I myself have dealt with severe depression and anxiety disorder, which was made so much worse last year when I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and lost my mother just six days later.) If my husband requested some sessions to speak together as well, I would agree to it in hopes I can find a way to forgive. Not for him, but for me. He's touched every part of my life, and I don't want every good memory in my life tainted by the pain he's caused me now. I believe in miracles, but I'm not sure my marriage is worthy to receive one.

Thank you all so much. I wish you blessings of love and happiness-
brooksey
 

Thank you for sharing Daryl & Brooksey. That took a lot of courage my friend. Given what you've shared, your honesty, and your ability to reflect, I think you're on the right track. Please keep sharing your story Brooksey because I find many straight spouses eventually stop defending their horrible gay-in-denial husbands (or ex-husbands) as they start to accept the facts of their relationships. You wrote the following:

1. I have often suspected he has bipolar disorder but he has never treated me with anything but gentleness until now. I have often considered myself so lucky to have a thoughtful partner who is so lovely to be around. I think that's why this sudden anger and cruelty is especially shocking. He's like a different person.

I have to disagree with your "gentleness" comment my friend. Cheating, closeted, and bipolar husbands are anything but gentle in my opinion. 

2. He has severe depression or possibly bipolar disorder that I've encouraged him to get treatment for for years (he thinks medications are for "crazy people" and he doesn't need that).​ I myself have dealt with severe depression and anxiety disorder, which was made so much worse last year when I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and lost my mother just six days later.

I'm so sorry for your diagnosis and also for the tragic loss of your mother. Please take care of yourself my friend and good luck with your next doctor's appointment. Following my coming out in May 2012, my ex-wife and I continued to profess our "love" for one another. I even continued to write that I loved her in my earlier posts. It was all bullsh*t because I loved my closet more than I ever loved her. When a husband and wife are both depressed, bipolar, and suffer from anxiety, insomnia, or any other such ailments, clearly something is wrong with their relationship. I know because I've been there my friend. From what I understand, one of the main problems with narcissistic or gay-in-denial relationships is giving up this false narrative that the marriage was somehow happy. Most of these relationships were tolerable at best. Take my marriage for example. I think we were "happy", in the classic Disney sense of a happy relationship, for about 18 months. For the remainder of our 18-year marriage, we fought constantly, rarely had sex, I was a porn addict, and later started cheating on my wife. Sadly, I believe my wife clung desperately to the idea that I would revert back to some hetero version of my bubbly 20-something self - a self that was just a mask.

​So what's my point? The hardest thing for a straight spouse to accept is that her gay-in-denial husband is (and always was) a bad person, if not a monster. I now believe that straight spouses suffer years, or even decades, of abuse and develop a form of battered wife syndrome. Most new members are in shock when they first post here. We need look no further than my recent exchange with a straight spouse. She actually wrote this:

"He [husband] tested positive for HIV last year, and I was expected to believe that he had no idea how it happened.  That it was probably related to travel he'd done overseas.  But we couldn't discuss it and he grew more desperate for sex. I tested negative, thanks to no penetration probably. And lest you all think he's a complete monster by now, he burst into tears and hugged me when my results were negative."

​This straight spouse is giving her ex-husband praise for not giving her HIV/Aids. It's like saying your husband is a great guy because 'He only beats me on Wednesdays, not all week.' I am not criticising straight spouses, nor am I being critical of you Brooksey. I'm simply encouraging you and all straight spouses to continue posting here to see your gay-in-denial husbands for who they are: damaged; cheating; lying; and manipulative men who are the root cause of your anxiety and depression. And I include myself among them. While married to a straight woman, I was an abusive nightmare. You all deserve so much better. My ex-wife deserved better.

​I urge you to keep coming back and sharing your story. Posting here will help you give up the myth of your relationship while focusing on the most important person: you. I hope that helps my friend.  

Last edited by Sean (September 17, 2017 11:17 am)

​Hi Scrupulous. Q: "Sean what do you know about Neurosyphilis?" A: Nothing I'm afraid my friend other than I believe Henry VIII went mad because of his syphilis. Is your ex still showing the same signs of PD?

Thank you for posting Jamie. I'm so sorry you've found yourself here and in this terrible situation. I've had a look at your first post as I didn't have much context to your questions here. I hope you don't mind if I cut/paste and respond to it here. If that bothers you, just let me know and I'll gladly remove it. Here is your original post with my comments.

​1. Super long story here, I met my husband online over 5 years ago. I was 44 and he was 27, that's already weird I know. He was in the military and we had common musical taste. We talked online and over the phone for a while and then he disappeared, when we started speaking again he told me he was gay.

As strange as this may sound, you're actually lucky to have heard, "I'm gay." As you've probably read in the various posts here, many straight spouses wait for years (or even decades) to hear the truth. And some straight wives never hear it.

2. He's from a very religious family in Texas and had never acted on any gay behavior. At that moment I told him that was fine and when he got back from his out of state training we would hang out and I would help him to go be gay.

Got it. I think you mean, "I would help him to not be gay." Please confirm.

3. When he finally came back a month or so later he came to spend the weekend with me and he was so cute and hung on every word I said, following me around like a baby duckling. We were intimate the first weekend and I continued dating other men, we were so honest with each other about everything. I would show him videos men sent me masturbating and it was a huge turn on to us both and so freeing to have all this honesty with someone. We continued hanging out and fell in love I guess, I didn't want to fall in love with him but he made me. I should also mention he liked to cross dress and never really did it before, I encouraged it and let him know that didn't make him gay, started to realize he didn't really know himself too much and was pretty dicked up from his upbringing, like crazy end of the world stuff. We were really open about everything and he told me that he wasn't gay after all, maybe bi, and he wanted to be monogamous with me, I agreed after a lot of discussion.

​You're very courageous to have shared all of that my friend so thank you.

4. We were married 6 months later and it's been almost 5 years now. He's gone back and forth on the cross dressing, throwing everything away and rebuying it a few times. He decided he wanted to be a make up artist at one point and got into that, got into soccer, got into a band, he's just all over the place. Also got his commercial drivers license and went back to school after getting out right after we married, all these years have been all about him and going back and forth on everything we talked about, what I wanted out of life, what I expect in a partner, etc. I have grown kids and my tubes tied, he thought he wanted kids at one point.

I think you're very lucky you didn't have kids together.

5. Also I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict, sober 31 years now...

Congratulations on celebrating 31 years of sobriety.

6. ...and talked to him about whether or not he would smoke pot when he got out, he said no. Ending up smoking pot and eating edibles behind my back, with my oldest kid, ugh. We split at one point and when he came back there was supposed to be a total honesty policy. Found out he cross dressed and made a profile on Plenty of Fish, was watching gay porn and masturbating for a year and a half behind my back. Just so many lies and hiding crap.

These are all red flags my friend but you already know that.

​7. He's had a huge drinking problem which has finally tapered off and we have been in marital counseling for a couple years, me in individual counseling and him finally seeing a counselor who specializes in gay/Bi/Trans. I'm giving it till January to make my final decision about what to do here.

​I think it's a very wise decision to set a timeline. Good for you.

8. We do love each other deeply, but I think he's trying so hard to not be gay, don't feel the attraction any more and he's told me how he fantasizes about getting rimmed and anal sex, if I talk about a man giving him love he gets instantly hard, if I'm standing there naked there's nothing and our sex is not very often.

I'm sorry that he's making you feel this way. A husband should make his wife feel sexy.

9. I've been so supportive over the years, going to the cross dressing clubs, pegging him, having him watch gay porn to get turned on before sex. If our problems stopped at sex there wouldn't be such an issue...

I believe by "pegging" you mean anal play but please confirm.

10. I know the age thing comes into play too and I feel the vibes coming off him, he hates this grown up life I've forced him into, he put the make up career on hold and is driving trucks now. He says everything is ok, but I can tell when he touches me that he's not into me.

Again I'm really sorry that he's making you feel this way. You deserve better.

11. I'll be 50 next month and I just had a tummy tuck and breast lift 7 months ago and I'm damn hot!

​I'm sure you are my friend. Good for you.

12. He's 33 now, not really a kid. I should mention he never really had long term relationships but swears he's never acted out on gay behavior, I believe him because I see how scared he is of it even though it turns him on so much. We have had spurts where things are great and then I see the depression come over him. He wants to be married to me, in word anyway, but his actions never match up, and I guess how can they when he's probably gay and I don't have the right parts? He's very hairy but trim, he's into the bears and leather daddies.

​You've covered a lot here my friend and I applaud you for being so open and honest. Let's forget your husband for a moment and imagine you're reading a dating profile that reads like this:

​- 33 year old male
- From Texas, religious family
- Former military, make up artist, musician, and now truck driver
- My interests: drinking, pot, cross dressing and going to clubs for cross dressers
​-  Sexually I like: bears and leather daddies, watching gay porn, watching men masturbate, rimming, and pegging

​These are more or less your words. Does this sound like the profile of a straight man? And this is how he makes you feel:

- We have been in marital counseling for a couple years.
​- I can tell when he touches me that he's not into me.
​- He wants to be married to me, in word anyway, but his actions never match up, and I guess how can they when he's probably gay and I don't have the right parts?
- I didn't want to fall in love with him but he made me.
- Just so many lies and hiding crap.
- This is what kills me the most, how does he not see how much this is killing me?
​- I really need to see him get some empathy and some understanding of what he's putting me through mentally and emotionally, especially since he keeps saying he wants to stay married to me.

I have some experience with 12-step programs and if I were your sponsor, I'd tell you this relationship, and all the stress surrounding it, are putting you at serious risk of relapsing. Now I'm not your sponsor so I'm going to give you my opinion. This may sting a bit so get ready.

​Given what you've shared, I believe your husband is gay. I have a theory that I've shared here and it goes something like this: I believe there are men who are emotionally straight. This describes men who want to be with women to conform because of the society they live in (for example a state where homosexuality is frowned upon), their religious upbringing, or because of internalized homophobia. I too was emotionally straight I married to hide my attraction to men. While your husband may have an emotional attachment to you, clearly his sexual preference is homosexual. For example, you shared that he watches gay porn, likes anal, likes bears/leather daddies and so on. You also shared that he doesn't seem to have an attraction to women. So he's emotionally straight and yet sexually gay. This suggests that you're his beard, or his anchor to a straight identity.

Now let's talk about your health and safety first. If your husband lied about things like pot smoking, cross dressing, and his "Penty of Fish" dating profile, he's probably lying about what he has and hasn't done with men. So if you are still having sex/sexual relations with your husband, I'd err on the side of caution and always practice safe sex. Why? Because I've read too many wives who also claimed, like you, "he's never acted out on gay behavior, I believe him because I see how scared he is of it even though it turns him on so much." This is a contradiction but you already know that. If he's lied in the past, let's just assume he's lying about this as well so protect yourself if you're having sex with him.

With regards to your post:

"This is what kills me the most, how does he not see how much this is killing me? I'm constantly asking him about how it would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and he knew I wasn't attracted to him and was attracted to all these other men and masturbating to fantasies of them or pictures of them. Or what if he felt that I didn't want to be with him and was resentful of my life with him? Idk why it's so important to me, but I really need to see him get some empathy and some understanding of what he's putting me through mentally and emotionally, especially since he keeps saying he wants to stay married to me."

​This sounds a lot like gay-in-denial narcissism, which is just self-centredness to a point that he can't appreciate your emotions. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Unfortunately, if your husband is anything like me he's simply too f*cked up emotionally to even appreciate how you're feeling. Empathy is simply a language he doesn't understand and probably never will.

So what now? I suggest you continue posting to gain some clarity about your situation. I'd also suggest reaching out to the Straight Spouse Network to see if there are meetings or potential sponsors in your area. If you have a trusted friend or family member who knew you before getting married, reach out to him/her to share your story. And finally, I applaud you for getting therapy, but please ensure that you have a therapist 100% focused on you and your mental health.   

​I hope that helps my friend. If you have additional questions, please feel free to post them here.


 





 

More to add to last reply, I got married at 22 to a man in AA who had a 3 year old daughter, mom was out of the picture and I wanted to nurture this little girl and be her mommy and loved this guy, but more of it was probably about his kid and my lack of nurturing growing up. We married and had a son a few years later, I raised his daughter and worked full time. This man left me when our son was 5 months old, and there went my step daughter. A year later I started dating a guy at work, not totally attracted to him, but he was a great guy, loved my kid, wanted to buy a house with me, so I went. Did everything for my son, wanted him to have stability and a great life, the life I didn't have, his dad was not much in the picture after the divorce. Anyway, I had a daughter a few years later with the second hubby, was never really sexually attracted to him but he was a good dad and we had a good life, eventually I was so lonely in the marriage I blew up to 300 pounds. Everything in my life was about the kids and being super mom, I worked half time for 12 years and volunteered at school, Little League, daughter did soccer, gymnastics, etc. just made everything about giving my kids a good life and being there for them.

We became foster parents to 2 girls that were friends with my son in middle school, I just had to help these girls, again, more of that I wasn't nurtured and I had to nurture and help these girls, no matter how sucky my life was. We did this for a couple years.

Finally after my weight loss surgery I realized I wasn't going to be successful staying in this marriage and had to end it, son was out of the house, daughter was 14, gave my husband the option to stay married and raise her and date other people, he said no and wanted a divorce. So during the divorce I was sleeping with every guy who walked, I had years of pent up sexual energy to get out and I lost my freaking mind for about a year, which was when I met my current hubby. So I can see there were so many issues at play here, my losing my mind, my being this nurturer who is trying to fix my own past, etc.

Last edited by OCJamie (September 20, 2017 2:43 pm)