Ynadin,
   What you said about the disordered finding out exactly what you want and withholding it in order to keep control rings very true with me.  After my husband's disclosure that he'd decided he's transgender but wanted to stay together, I made it clear that I could work to see if I could accommodate his new sexuality only if we were communicating, only if he made sure to communicate to me where he was with himself and whether he was thinking of escalating his moves to feminize himself, because only if I knew where I stood could I make an informed decision about whether I was willing to stay under the present conditions.
  That communication has never been forthcoming, and for over two years the pattern has been that I wait and wait, more and more anxious, for him to communicate.  He does not.  Then I force a conversation, usually one in which any doubt I express he treats as an attack (which makes me hesitant in the future to speak up), and although he has said  he knows he needs to "communicate better"--he never does.  He goes right back to not communicating, and so I never know what he's thinking, and thus I cannot make an informed decision.  
 It took me a while to catch onto this pattern, but once I did, I stopped needed, wanting, and expecting communication, because I realized that although he wasn't initiating conversation, he WAS communicating--but what he was communicating, by his refusal to talk, was that he wasn't interested in talking.  Which told me exactly what I needed to know.  That I can't stay.  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (September 7, 2017 3:26 pm)

Help -

I believe it warrants asking what, exactly, you mean when you're afraid to get him angry.  What do you have a feeling he'll do?  I mean..... specifically.  You said he'll be mean to you and the kids.  How?  Will he scare you guys with rage and outbursts?  Will he Do cruel things like cut off access to power, water, heat/air?  Will he shut off bank accounts so that you cannot feed the children?  Will he break and throw things in the house?  Will he get physical with any of you, or make threats of violence?

Your fear of angering a man IS hard-wired into you, as Ynadin says.  But it's also important to think out what you think might happen with THIS man, and weigh if you're in true danger or if you're just scared in general, but think that you are all in no danger.  Can you elaborate?

Kel
 

Sorry it's been a couple of days. He optd to take a couple days off of work to convince me he had. I idea why he did those things and there is no possibility he is gay.   

His anger is usually the form of cruel behavior. He will flip out verbally on the kids, throw things act childish make empty threats.

I fully believe he would turn off bank accounts and credit cards and possibly disable vehicles if he were desperate enough

It's so impossible to grasp that he is in full denial. He is a smart college educated man. And his only explanation is I don't know why I did it. I had no reason to do it.

Atleast lie better

Last edited by Help102 (September 9, 2017 6:35 am)

Yes, an empath can absolutely divorce and move on from a narcissist.  I did it.  I did it because I realized that staying with him wasn't fixing him anyway.  I was absolutely not helping him by staying with him and continuing to help HIM, when it was destroying ME.  It also helped to have children that I needed to make sure were in a healthy environment.  If I was slowly getting destroyed, how could I be a good parent to them?

I never used to see myself as an empath.  It seems so...... mystical.  And I'm the furthest thing from mystical and spiritual.  But when you look at the definition of an empath, I fit the bill.  I prefer to look at it as being very empathetic.  Even if you aren't an empath per se, but are very empathetic, you'll have the same issue trying to leave someone - you're all wrapped in how this is going to hurt them or affect them instead of it being about you foremost.  We have an innate ability to understand how others feel about things, and we're "fixers".  We root for the underdog.  And we wish everyone well.  The thing is, even empaths realize that they can't help EVERYone.  You may be able to give a bum on the street a dollar, but you can't invite him to come live in your house with your children and keep your family safe.  We realize there are limitations.  The only way to get away from a narcissist (especially one you're married to) is to tell yourself that you cannot fix them.  You are not a god.  You cannot fix people's damage simply by being with them.  You are not that powerful.  You can give and give, but if someone is uninterested in getting well, or doing the hard work to obtain wellness, then you.can't.help.them.

It also helps to see that the narcissist is using your empathy against you - as a weapon.  They know your heart is pure, and you will lay down your life for them.  And they'll gladly take that.  They KNOW they're doing this.  And that feels shitty.  We make the assumption that people are taking because they need to - they are broken and are reaching out to us as a hand out of the quicksand.  What we don't seem to realize until too late is that they have no intention of using our hand to get out of that muck - they LIKE it in there.  They would like nothing more than for us to join them in their pit - for company!  Or to push us down so they can stand on us.  Once you realize how intentionally they're using you, it becomes easier to detach.  Because you have a lot to give.  You may as well give it to people who can reciprocate.  You only have so much energy and time to spread around.  Don't waste it on someone who will take all you have and STILL not improve.  You could truly be helping people who appreciate it.

An empath simply CANNOT get away from a narcissist without detaching.  Which must be done intentionally.  Otherwise you're trapped in their world.  You need to be in your own world in order to see what they're doing, and how much they're affecting you and others who you love.  Sometimes the only way to get out is to realize that you can either pick this ONE person to work with, or the crowd of others that will be served by getting this person out of the way.  When I realized that I'd be sacrificing my children in order for my spouse to continue receiving my all, it didn't seem worth it any longer.  HE was the adult.  He should be able to work on himself.  the kids were my responsibility.  I needed to raise them in a good environment for them to be who they will become.  I could either continue to give my husband what he insisted he needed, or I could have 3 healthy children.  I couldn't have both.

Kel
 

Last edited by Kel (September 11, 2017 11:23 am)

That's mind-boggling, Allison.  Even if he'd never met the woman, if something is upsetting you, and you're his wife, then it's his business to comfort you.  I had a boss die years ago, and neither my kids nor my current husband had ever met him.  They knew that my boss was a kind man, and that I adored him.  He'd been sick for years, and just days before he died, I cried to my husband that I knew that I had just seen him for the last time.  He thought I was overreacting, but he comforted me just the same.  When I got a text from my boss' wife saying that he'd died the day before, everyone heard that text come in, and then saw me read it, and start bawling.  They had no idea what I reacting to that harshly.  And yet, they all came running over to me.  "What's wrong, honey?  What happened?  Are you okay?  Mommy, what? What is it?  I gave the phone to my husband, who read the quick text, and quietly told the kids that my boss had just died.  And they surrounded me, hugging on me, comforting me, even crying a bit with me.  I just lost it for a bit there.  And they did what they were supposed to do - BE with me.  Hold me.  Comfort me.  Pet me.  And that wasn't my mother - it was a boss.

There is literally no reason for your husband to act the way he did to you.  A freaking dog would come comfort you if you were were sad.  To do what he did means that he is cold and callous toward you and your feelings and sees no reason why he should be involved in worrying about your feelings.  Which translates very loudly to how he feels about you overall.  It means he's not above doing anything that would hurt you.  Because it doesn't bother him if you hurt.  That's very, very dangerous in a relationship.  It's fatal.

Kel